"international player who has given his whole career to club and country" Like others say this line gets my goat, it implies some form of service that he has done, as opposed to picking up his wages, its the fans that give their all for their club and if anybody gives it for their country then its the guys in the armed forces, not some sensitive multi millionaire who kicks an imitation pigs bladder for a living.
To be fair I would be very hesitant about calling Lennox Lewis a "lady man" to his face. I met him briefly once in London and he is one big fekker although he is not your stereotypical fighter, that's for sure.
[cite]Posted By: Ormiston Addick[/cite]To be fair I would be very hesitant about calling Lennox Lewis a "lady man" to his face. I met him briefly once in London and he is one big fekker although he is not your stereotypical fighter, that's for sure.
*Ahem ahem*
I love Lennox, think he is among the best heavyweights the world has ever seen and would not dream of calling him said ladyman to his face. From a safe distance however...... ;-)
Kap10 has hit the nail on the head. If it is largely unnoticed the actual abuse that the government, lefties and the like (with no offence to any left thinking bod on here) give our serving soldiers I'm quite sure we can ignore some reaction baiting singing.
The more I hear of this Campbell thing the sicker it's making me feel as it happens. I think we should up the ante and let some of these over paid over-hyped ponces really have some good natured banter. (I don't call the song the Shite hart vermin sing good natured by the way) I just would ignore it if I was Mr Campbell
If the Hull fans start singing on Saturday about a "town full of bombers" as they have done before will we all laugh it off as a bit of banter. Some of us are well paid and live and/or work in London so does that mean that we have no right to get up set or angry?. I would be very annoyed as I think it way way pass "banter" as is the song that Rothko mentioned.
If Hull fans start making monkey noises at Chris Powell will that be OK? Chris Powell is well paid, he's played for England so should he have to put up with as it's part of his job?
I don't think so. No way should Chris Powell be abused like that but 20 - 30 years ago such abuse was common place (including from Charlton fans I'm ashamed to say) and black players were told that it was "part of the job, you're well paid, don't say anything, if you speak out you'll let them know they are getting to you".
Thankfully we've moved on and most Charlton fans would, I hope, find songs like "who's that up a tree, Vince Hillaire, Vince, Hillaire" offensive now.
How much Campbell earns, how badly England played, that he moved clubs doesn't come into this. I know little about him as a person or what he is like but I think he's been brave to say this in public just because he must have guessed that it would have brought a reaction but someone has to be the first to say "no, this is not acceptable".
What would be useful would be for some Spurs players to say publically that they condem these songs and want them to stop. Spurs fans rightly condem those fans who sings about "Spurs are on their way to Auschwitz" and make hissing noises. Maybe they need a history lesson. Homosexuals got sent to Auschwitz as well.
You're missing the point a bit, Henry. The two examples you give are not what sulky Campbell is talking about - the first is aimed at oppo fans and verges on racism, the second is out and out racist. Campbell said any verbal abuse is as bad as racism. I'm sorry, but I don't believe it is.
I don't believe that any verbal abuse is as bad a racism either.
However the song that Rothko quoted is, IMHO, very abusive and way way OTT. That it is homophobic rather than racist does not mean is is more acceptable.
People were saying that Campbell should have to tolerate such abuse as he is well paid and England didn't qualify. I disagree.
I was making the point that some of us and Chris Powell are well paid but that doesn't mean we or him should be abused.
Campbell himself has not specifically referred to the Spurs chants as far as I have seen/heard. I agree with you, Henry, and others that the specific one Rothko quotes goes too far, but exactly where the 'too far' line is drawn is always difficult to determine - see some of the debates on here re some of our own less p.c. chants.
In his comments, Campbell seems to want to gag all fans from any verbal abuse. If I see another performance like Wycombe, I will always defend my right to shout 'You're not fit to wear the shirt', because on that day they weren't, and it needed to be said. I've never heard anyone abuse Chris Powell - the closest - which for me was out of order - was Pardew trying to blame him for WBA last Saturday. Yet there is plenty of abuse for Marcus Bent. That's no hint of racism there - it's all about differing attitudes and behavours in how they conduct themselves on and off the pitch.
Well said H, now where a line is drawn, if there is one I believe to be a total can of worms as the next step is completely sterilising football.
To be honest mate if a group of inbred Northern monkeys want to sing distasteful songs at me I could eat that. If however they do it to my face and are looking for a reaction by calling me a bomber I would gladly knock his teeth down his throat, but sticks and stones and all that.
You have hit on something which I was going to raise about Tottenham fans getting very upset about the Auschwitz song and the hissing that Chelsea and West Ham do to them. They could well do with remembering you cannot have it both ways.
Fact is, you cannot compare a footballers lifestyle and position with that of most of ours. If they are that deeply offended and affected they could just walk away as one of us would if we were suffering intolerable cruelty and abuse in our day to day 9 hour shifts. Why don't they? $$$$$£££££
You take the rough with the smooth and when I'm earning packets and being given bottles of drink from managers and praise heaped on me I'm pretty happy. When things are not going so well and I'm getting my ears chewed and getting what I call aggravation at times there is a real chance I could lose my job in turn, house, car etc etc. Now when these blokes have a stinker they get booed or yelled at if it is the umpeenth stinker they have had said stinker. Doesn't wash for me I'm afraid
what's the cut off point in wages for the abuse to be out of order 20k a week 10k a week 5k a week ffs abuse is abuse and nobody likes it (accept danny mills!!) ...
as much as these people are overpaid doesn't mean they have to take unlimited shit thrown at them.... ashley cole gets 90 minutes dogs abuse about his wife his sexuality etc turns around to the crowd says up yours and he's out of order cos he earns 80k a week but if he was on 1k a week would it be alright to say f*ck off to the crowd ..
maybe campbell should keep his gob shut but it's a free country and he's entitled to his opinion as long as it's not too insulting
I'm sorry but was does Judas expect? For us to forgive him and just brush it under the carpet and let bygones be bygones?
He blatantly lied to the Spurs fans. "I'm a Spurs man...why would I want to move?" The day he signed for the Goons down the other end of the Tottenham High Road then he consigned himself to a lifetime of abuse.
Deal with it like a man Judas!
However, having said all of that, the homophobic abuse aimed at him now is even worse than it was when he first moved to the Goons. It is out of order and it should stop. There's plenty of other stuff to have a go at him for without going down them lines.
You never know, he may even come out soon ;-)
There's been a number of rumours recently that Spurs could be in for Campbell during the next transfer window. Surely surely surely they or he wouldnt be so stupid. Thats like paying £16.5m for a striker who sits on the bench.
Completely agree with you Henry. It seems that in the UK today the only thing that is seen as beyond the pale to say is something racist, but you do not have to be racist to be downright offensive.
The thing that worries me is how these things are taught to the children who go. Around me there are a group of three young lads who come with their Mum every week. At the start of the season they were fabulous, very loud and supportive, never said a word against anyone. About a month into the season their uncle started to come along too, who is one of the most aggressive football "fans" I have ever heard. In only a few short weeks the kids have learnt from their uncle and now behave as he does and copy the phrases he uses.
Nobody is saying that you can't have a whinge. Nobody is saying that people should absolutely not swear (personally I do not really like it, particularly when there are kids around, but that is my problem, not something i would expect anyone else to live by). But there have to be limits and it is not acceptable to say "I was not racist so I can say whatever I like".
I agree with you Carter and you Weggie. We should be able to say "you're not playing very well at the moment Marcus" or even something a bit stronger : - ) but some things go to far and that song about Campbell does that IMHO
Where do you draw the line? For me it is "you're S***, why don't you f*** off" OK. even if I wouldn't want someone screaming that in my 9 year olds ear, and may well be fair comment. "You're a F****** queer why don't you die of aids" not acceptable.
Footballers are in a different job. Getting stick from home and away fans is part of it and they would never have got as far as the first team if they wilted when a coach or parent or reserve team fan shouted at them. They get their money and they are laughing all the way to the bank but that doesn't mean they are fair game to any abuse, any comment regardless.
Changing the topic slightly I surprised that managers in "normal" jobs still scream abuse and swear at staff in these times of full employment. Most companies I go into are desperate to hold on to their staff and are bending over backwards (no jokes please ; - ) to keep them happy. Maybe it is just the companies I see. I know that in some firms there is more swearing but not swearing AT people. Or maybe everyone is very nice when I'm doing an inspection ; - )
If it is the homophobic abuse that is bothering Campbell, I'd have a lot more sympathy for him if he came out and said that. One day there will be a footballer brave enough to do it.
As real fans (who attend matches regular and hear the songs etc) how many times have you heard something and thought 'hold on that's a bit much' ?
I don't disagree with anything we sing as
1) We have only 2 songs at present it seems ;-)
2) Anything below the belt gets ignored by the majority in turn stopping anything before it starts
3) We are a decent set of fans
4) He is really aiming this at the yids who really go to town on him. Can anyone think of anywhere else Soloman has recieved abuse worth getting upset about in this country (I say this country as he mentioned giving his 'service' to his country)
5) If Ashley Cole did not want aggravation (homophobic or otherwise) he should have thought twice about some of the moronic comments and actions (Samsung mobile phones) he was guilty of whilst still 'earning' a revolting amount of money from Arsenal FC
Robbie Keane was pretty anti Campbells sentiments this morning. There is a fine line between the acceptable and unacceptable and it will vary for each of us. I don't really care too much if someone F's and C's at a player, but I do care that people around that person have to put up with the yobbish behaviour. I also feel that managers need more protection behind the dug out, its fine when its banter but out right foul mouthed abuse, to me is unacceptable. the only time I feel to the players is as they enter or exit the field of play, but nowadays they have the tunnel for protection anyway.
I wouldn't make the mistake of mistaking a big pay packet for happiness - Campbell's actions when he was younger didn't exactly cover himself with glory, and he's clearly got issues in his private life. But that doesn't give anyone the right to wish an early death upon him - that ain't "banter", that's the mark of a coward who can only do it from the safety of a crowd.
[cite]Posted By: InspectorSands[/cite]I wouldn't make the mistake of mistaking a big pay packet for happiness - Campbell's actions when he was younger didn't exactly cover himself with glory, and he's clearly got issues in his private life. But that doesn't give anyone the right to wish an early death upon him - that ain't "banter", that's the mark of a coward who can only do it from the safety of a crowd.
To be honest 'coward' 'safety in numbers' are both synonymous of an awful lot of Tottenham fans.
Comments
Like others say this line gets my goat, it implies some form of service that he has done, as opposed to picking up his wages, its the fans that give their all for their club and if anybody gives it for their country then its the guys in the armed forces, not some sensitive multi millionaire who kicks an imitation pigs bladder for a living.
*Ahem ahem*
I love Lennox, think he is among the best heavyweights the world has ever seen and would not dream of calling him said ladyman to his face. From a safe distance however...... ;-)
Kap10 has hit the nail on the head. If it is largely unnoticed the actual abuse that the government, lefties and the like (with no offence to any left thinking bod on here) give our serving soldiers I'm quite sure we can ignore some reaction baiting singing.
The more I hear of this Campbell thing the sicker it's making me feel as it happens. I think we should up the ante and let some of these over paid over-hyped ponces really have some good natured banter. (I don't call the song the Shite hart vermin sing good natured by the way) I just would ignore it if I was Mr Campbell
If Hull fans start making monkey noises at Chris Powell will that be OK? Chris Powell is well paid, he's played for England so should he have to put up with as it's part of his job?
I don't think so. No way should Chris Powell be abused like that but 20 - 30 years ago such abuse was common place (including from Charlton fans I'm ashamed to say) and black players were told that it was "part of the job, you're well paid, don't say anything, if you speak out you'll let them know they are getting to you".
Thankfully we've moved on and most Charlton fans would, I hope, find songs like "who's that up a tree, Vince Hillaire, Vince, Hillaire" offensive now.
How much Campbell earns, how badly England played, that he moved clubs doesn't come into this. I know little about him as a person or what he is like but I think he's been brave to say this in public just because he must have guessed that it would have brought a reaction but someone has to be the first to say "no, this is not acceptable".
What would be useful would be for some Spurs players to say publically that they condem these songs and want them to stop. Spurs fans rightly condem those fans who sings about "Spurs are on their way to Auschwitz" and make hissing noises. Maybe they need a history lesson. Homosexuals got sent to Auschwitz as well.
However the song that Rothko quoted is, IMHO, very abusive and way way OTT. That it is homophobic rather than racist does not mean is is more acceptable.
People were saying that Campbell should have to tolerate such abuse as he is well paid and England didn't qualify. I disagree.
I was making the point that some of us and Chris Powell are well paid but that doesn't mean we or him should be abused.
In his comments, Campbell seems to want to gag all fans from any verbal abuse. If I see another performance like Wycombe, I will always defend my right to shout 'You're not fit to wear the shirt', because on that day they weren't, and it needed to be said. I've never heard anyone abuse Chris Powell - the closest - which for me was out of order - was Pardew trying to blame him for WBA last Saturday. Yet there is plenty of abuse for Marcus Bent. That's no hint of racism there - it's all about differing attitudes and behavours in how they conduct themselves on and off the pitch.
To be honest mate if a group of inbred Northern monkeys want to sing distasteful songs at me I could eat that. If however they do it to my face and are looking for a reaction by calling me a bomber I would gladly knock his teeth down his throat, but sticks and stones and all that.
You have hit on something which I was going to raise about Tottenham fans getting very upset about the Auschwitz song and the hissing that Chelsea and West Ham do to them. They could well do with remembering you cannot have it both ways.
Fact is, you cannot compare a footballers lifestyle and position with that of most of ours. If they are that deeply offended and affected they could just walk away as one of us would if we were suffering intolerable cruelty and abuse in our day to day 9 hour shifts. Why don't they? $$$$$£££££
You take the rough with the smooth and when I'm earning packets and being given bottles of drink from managers and praise heaped on me I'm pretty happy. When things are not going so well and I'm getting my ears chewed and getting what I call aggravation at times there is a real chance I could lose my job in turn, house, car etc etc. Now when these blokes have a stinker they get booed or yelled at if it is the umpeenth stinker they have had said stinker. Doesn't wash for me I'm afraid
as much as these people are overpaid doesn't mean they have to take unlimited shit thrown at them.... ashley cole gets 90 minutes dogs abuse about his wife his sexuality etc turns around to the crowd says up yours and he's out of order cos he earns 80k a week but if he was on 1k a week would it be alright to say f*ck off to the crowd ..
maybe campbell should keep his gob shut but it's a free country and he's entitled to his opinion as long as it's not too insulting
For us to forgive him and just brush it under the carpet and let bygones be bygones?
He blatantly lied to the Spurs fans. "I'm a Spurs man...why would I want to move?"
The day he signed for the Goons down the other end of the Tottenham High Road then he consigned himself to a lifetime of abuse.
Deal with it like a man Judas!
However, having said all of that, the homophobic abuse aimed at him now is even worse than it was when he first moved to the Goons. It is out of order and it should stop. There's plenty of other stuff to have a go at him for without going down them lines.
You never know, he may even come out soon ;-)
There's been a number of rumours recently that Spurs could be in for Campbell during the next transfer window. Surely surely surely they or he wouldnt be so stupid. Thats like paying £16.5m for a striker who sits on the bench.
The thing that worries me is how these things are taught to the children who go. Around me there are a group of three young lads who come with their Mum every week. At the start of the season they were fabulous, very loud and supportive, never said a word against anyone. About a month into the season their uncle started to come along too, who is one of the most aggressive football "fans" I have ever heard. In only a few short weeks the kids have learnt from their uncle and now behave as he does and copy the phrases he uses.
Nobody is saying that you can't have a whinge. Nobody is saying that people should absolutely not swear (personally I do not really like it, particularly when there are kids around, but that is my problem, not something i would expect anyone else to live by). But there have to be limits and it is not acceptable to say "I was not racist so I can say whatever I like".
I think Sol Campbell has been incredibly brave.
Where do you draw the line? For me it is "you're S***, why don't you f*** off" OK. even if I wouldn't want someone screaming that in my 9 year olds ear, and may well be fair comment. "You're a F****** queer why don't you die of aids" not acceptable.
Footballers are in a different job. Getting stick from home and away fans is part of it and they would never have got as far as the first team if they wilted when a coach or parent or reserve team fan shouted at them. They get their money and they are laughing all the way to the bank but that doesn't mean they are fair game to any abuse, any comment regardless.
Changing the topic slightly I surprised that managers in "normal" jobs still scream abuse and swear at staff in these times of full employment. Most companies I go into are desperate to hold on to their staff and are bending over backwards (no jokes please ; - ) to keep them happy. Maybe it is just the companies I see. I know that in some firms there is more swearing but not swearing AT people. Or maybe everyone is very nice when I'm doing an inspection ; - )
As real fans (who attend matches regular and hear the songs etc) how many times have you heard something and thought 'hold on that's a bit much' ?
I don't disagree with anything we sing as
1) We have only 2 songs at present it seems ;-)
2) Anything below the belt gets ignored by the majority in turn stopping anything before it starts
3) We are a decent set of fans
4) He is really aiming this at the yids who really go to town on him. Can anyone think of anywhere else Soloman has recieved abuse worth getting upset about in this country (I say this country as he mentioned giving his 'service' to his country)
5) If Ashley Cole did not want aggravation (homophobic or otherwise) he should have thought twice about some of the moronic comments and actions (Samsung mobile phones) he was guilty of whilst still 'earning' a revolting amount of money from Arsenal FC
and we don't give a f*** if you're hanging from a tree,
you judas c*** with HIV
I fail to see how this is homophobic anyway anyone can contract HIV not just gay people.
To be honest 'coward' 'safety in numbers' are both synonymous of an awful lot of Tottenham fans.