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If we failed to beat Sunderland in play off final

Over the years Charlton have had some win or bust games (I.E. Leeds @ St Andrews in 87 and Bolton last home game in the mid 1980's), but I have often wonder what would have happened if we failed to beat Sunderland in 1998. In my opinion winning that game at wembley took the club on to another level, winning promotion, increased capacity and attendances etc. However, lets say we did not win that day and Super Clive, Rufus, Kinsella and possibly Curbs may have moved and we would not have had the sucessful years that followed. What position would the club be in today?

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    What a question!

    Impossible to answer though. I think Curbs will still have stayed for a bit because the enhancement of his profile was due to getting us up (twice) and staying up the second time round.

    Agreed that Kins et al may have gone and who knows what would have happened. I'd like to think that we would have flirted with the playoffs for a couple of years and still got promoted.
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    Know what you are getting at Amos, but i really think if we missed out that season, we would of stormed it like Sunderland did the following year. Like the selling of Boywer, there would of been one sale to bring in cash and the bulk of the squad would of been retained. Possibly Mendonca or Rufus would of gone, but we would of got very good money for either of them, particularly Mendonca.
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    We would have been hot favourites to go up the following year, given the way we finished that season. We would have kept the majority of that side. Curbs would have stayed as he would have seen the potential to storm the division. Remember that the majority of the squad stayed the season after we were relegated & took us back up.
    Whilst that particular stay in the top flight(after the play-offs) was brief, it did set us up nicely for our return. Curbs knew what it would take to keep usa up & the board realised that they would need to budget a little differently in order to sustain membership of the Premier league elite.
    T'was the start of some beautiful times!
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    don't think Mendonca would have left - only just joined us that season and was 30 ish.

    Of the rest , only Rufus and Kins may have moved on - the rest were still mainly div 1 players
    (and showed the next season when we got relegated)

    The championship winning squad of 1999/2000 was a diferent kettle of feeeeesh
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    I'm not so sure we would have stormed it like Sunderland did the following season AFKA, as Sunderland were a bigger club than us and were able to retain the likes of Phillips, Quinn, Rae, Johnson, Clark, Summerbee. I just felt at the time (and still do now) that we needed promotion that day more than Sunderland. Kinsella, Rufus and Mendonca would have certainly moved on and they were the spine of our team. Makes you think tho!!!
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    I don't think there would have been a mass exodus, most of our team were probably considered the best of the 1st but unproven above.

    For me it was the season I started going again after about 6-7 years of maybe 1 sometimes no games in a season. Went to 5/6 that season and then Wembley. I know several others aswell; so I think we would have been better supported than ever the following season and at least won automatic promotion.
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    I don't see why you think Rufus, Mendonca and Kinsella would have moved on. One of the reasons I've grown increasingly disillusioned with football in the past ten years is the number of mercenaries in the game. I don't think you'd class any of those three as mercenaries - pretty sure that, barring injuries, they would have played their careers out with CAFC as all three were committed club men. Kinsella and Rufus in particular were Charlton through and through.
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    I think this highlights the very difficult position we and a number of other yo-yo clubs are faced with because of the financial gap between the Prem and Championship. I think to win the Play off Final, be relegated and then win the Championship title was a fantastic piece of financial,football and man management.

    The fear expressed of losing Rufus,Mendonca and Kins did not manifest itself when we were relegated. Of course we have the benefit of hindsight and its quite possible that if good offers were made the club would have accepted them. And sadly Rufus and Mendonca's careers were tragically cut short by injury so they may have been good offers to have accepted from a purely financial point of view.

    I tend to be a tad nostalgic anyway but nobody can take those experiences away. Hopefully we will have some more of the same soon but I doubt for me that the elation will be quite like it was in May 1998.
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    [cite]Posted By: Leroy Ambrose[/cite]retty sure that, barring injuries, they would have played their careers out with CAFC.

    Kins went to Villa. ;-)
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    Yeh Kins told the story a while back at a Supporters club meeting how Curbs dispatched with his services. Quite a sad end. Thankfully the story had another twist.
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    What was the story with Kins and Curbs then? Do tell.
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    Curbs got an offer from Aston Villa for Kins in pre season (I think). From that moment on Curbs completely shut him out making it quite clear that he was not wanted and he had to accept the Villa offer. Kins didnt really want to go.

    But the way it was done was very cold considering what a legend Kins was to the fans and at that time still had quite a bit to offer.

    There is a side to Curbs that it is not so softly/softly as his public persona might appear. Perhaps thats necessary sometime but I think Kins deserved better.
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    Yep I too think Kins was shut out....one of Curbishley's not so nice attributes.
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    To be fair to Curbs, Parker was emerging as a top class player the same season and there was no room for sentiment.
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    Think there was room for both.

    But in any event even if you remove any sentiment Kins should have been treated better.
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    Sometimes its cruel to be kind. Curbs rightly decided that Parker was going to be the number one, a senior pro and club captain frustratingly kicking around in the reserves would likely of had a negative effect on the training ground and team atmosphere.

    Managers have to make tough decisions, decisions that largely have little room for sentiment. They do what they do to get the best possible results, because its on them results that they are judged.

    Kins got a very nice contract out of that move, when his playing days were largely numbered, so i don't feel too much pity.
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    As Afka said, Jensen and Parker were a quality pair in the middle of the park
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    [cite]Posted By: AFKA Bartram[/cite]Sometimes its cruel to be kind. Curbs rightly decided that Parker was going to be the number one, a senior pro and club captain frustratingly kicking around in the reserves would likely of had a negative effect on the training ground and team atmosphere.

    Managers have to make tough decisions, decisions that largely have little room for sentiment. They do what they do to get the best possible results, because its on them results that they are judged.

    Kins got a very nice contract out of that move, when his playing days were largely numbered, so i don't feel too much pity.

    I dont dispute any of that. You were probably at the same meeting when Kins told the story. There was more detail and I think the audience that evening were genuinely stunned at the story as it was told.

    Still think it was unnecessary for an employee who had given 110% to be treated in that way.
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    He loved his time at Wallsall though. Despite his dodgy knees.
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    The Kins thing ....... You'll remember that no sooner had Curbs showed Kins the door, then Parker got injured in that pre-season friendly. We were without Parker for 2 months and it showed as we slumped to the bottom of the Prem.

    Could we have done with Kinsella then....!!

    When Parker made his 1st appearance in mid-October home to Blackburn, we won 3-1 (tremendous Jason Euell goal in the last minute) and the team went on a great run.

    Question for the panel: If Kins had stayed and played, at least until Parker was fit, would we have made Europe that year?
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    May be but I am not sure that Kins was fit either I think he transferred to AV and then didn't make his debut for several months???
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    And would Parker have improved/learned from Kinsella? Surely the competition for a place might have spurred them both on.

    There was certainly a lot of conjecture regarding Kins knees at the time.

    On the other hand I reckon they may have taken each other out on the training ground. Ouch.
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