[cite]Posted By: Talal_El_Willscorie[/cite]well you'd be happy with a few more years in the Championship then
To be honest, I would rather we did not go up at the moment - unless there is a serious injection of cash (unlikely from the current shareholders), Pards would simply waste what little money he was given on more cast-offs, we would be taken apart week-in week-out and we'd be back to square one in a year - OK with another pair of parachute payments but with another cobbled together team.
Our best (and for me the most interesting) course would be to try to rebuild over 2-3 years with a younger, hungrier (and smaller) squad. Give Randolph or Elliot, Moo2, Basey, Semedo, Racon, Sam, Thomas their chance every week (they'll have bad games from time to time but they've got the talent to come through) and build on that base. When we go back up we want/need to have the same spirit that we had last time. It simply isn't there in the current squad I'm afraid.
Championship to date: Played 40 Fortune involved Played 26 Won 11 Drawn 7 Lost 8 No Fortune Played 14 Won 4 Drawn 5 Lost 5.
Those stats illustrate to me that we are better with him than without him.
<scientist cap on>Looks that way, but could be( Actually, very likely) misleading. In order to prove it you'd have to control (or isolate) for Fortune, so that you'd be sure that win/draw/lose ratio was down to him both within and without the team and not some other dominating factor. Would be a much more complex equation; but necessary to say either way. I'm afraid your simple formula above is virtually meaningless Len ;-) </scientist cap off>
Point taken in principle Lookie but one of the major criticisms of Jon is the lapses of concentration that lead to goals which obviously affect results.
My stats show that this season he's got it right more often than he has got it wrong.
i think people have been a tad harsh on fortune.
he's a product from our youth set up and his loyalty to us has, at times saved us from having to buy a centre half.
his level isn't a regular premiership starter but provided sufficient cover for us during them years.
i think he comfortably holds his own in the ccc but it seems quite a few of our fans give him the scapegoat treatment. comparible to lisbie i suppose.
[quote][cite]Posted By: LenGlover[/cite][quote][cite]Posted By: PeanutsMolloy[/cite][quote][cite]Posted By: Talal_El_Willscorie[/cite]well you'd be happy with a few more years in the Championship then[/quote] To be honest, I would rather we did not go up at the moment - unless there is a serious injection of cash (unlikely from the current shareholders), Pards would simply waste what little money he was given on more cast-offs, we would be taken apart week-in week-out and we'd be back to square one in a year - OK with another pair of parachute payments but with another cobbled together team. Our best (and for me the most interesting) course would be to try to rebuild over 2-3 years with a younger, hungrier (and smaller) squad. Give Randolph or Elliot, Moo2, Basey, Semedo, Racon, Sam, Thomas their chance every week (they'll have bad games from time to time but they've got the talent to come through) and build on that base. When we go back up we want/need to have the same spirit that we had last time. It simply isn't there in the current squad I'm afraid.[/quote]
When you say Thomas do you mean Jerome or Aswad?[/quote] I meant Jerome (though I know he divides opinion) but over time I'd try to give all the best young pros a chance (Aswad, Arter, Monteiro, Uchechi and others). I'd rather forgo the Prem and watch a team building for the future.
Fortune and Sodje appear to be the most effective pairing which bears out Oggy's theory of Jon being effective with a dominant figure alongside him. I have to say the results of that little exercise surprised me.
have never rated Fortune, too laid back and currently in the comfort zone. Would have gone to Stoke but for the fact that he is happy to either play a bit part or warm the bench and has no real inclination to actually want to play. If he plays he's happy and if he doesn't play he's happy. Coasting through his career. Like Lisbie he needs a change of club for both himself and us. Add Sankofa to that list too.
I may be wrong, and its just my opinion, but my impression of Fortune is that he has the tools to be a decent centre half, but does not have the desire or the concentration to achieve that.
I would say the company he seems to keep has blighted his career. The Ashley Cole's etc, have got John in a comfort zone and in the mindset that he has 'made it' where in reality he has achieved very little other than becoming a pro.
He needs to get away from Charlton, and probably London. Go join some Midlands and Northern club, and get your head down and dedicate the next couple of years to trying to get something worthwhile out of his career before it is too late.
Has a bit of pace and skill but does better when playing off another centre half where he picks up the pieces. Maybe not a top notch Prem player but decent enough.
He did go to Stoke on loan and did well. Maybe, like Lisbie and many others at other clubs, players sometimes need to move elsewhere to get a fresh start but I'd be sorry to see him go.
Comments
When you say Thomas do you mean Jerome or Aswad?
Point taken in principle Lookie but one of the major criticisms of Jon is the lapses of concentration that lead to goals which obviously affect results.
My stats show that this season he's got it right more often than he has got it wrong.
he's a product from our youth set up and his loyalty to us has, at times saved us from having to buy a centre half.
his level isn't a regular premiership starter but provided sufficient cover for us during them years.
i think he comfortably holds his own in the ccc but it seems quite a few of our fans give him the scapegoat treatment. comparible to lisbie i suppose.
To be honest, I would rather we did not go up at the moment - unless there is a serious injection of cash (unlikely from the current shareholders), Pards would simply waste what little money he was given on more cast-offs, we would be taken apart week-in week-out and we'd be back to square one in a year - OK with another pair of parachute payments but with another cobbled together team.
Our best (and for me the most interesting) course would be to try to rebuild over 2-3 years with a younger, hungrier (and smaller) squad. Give Randolph or Elliot, Moo2, Basey, Semedo, Racon, Sam, Thomas their chance every week (they'll have bad games from time to time but they've got the talent to come through) and build on that base. When we go back up we want/need to have the same spirit that we had last time. It simply isn't there in the current squad I'm afraid.[/quote]
When you say Thomas do you mean Jerome or Aswad?[/quote]
I meant Jerome (though I know he divides opinion) but over time I'd try to give all the best young pros a chance (Aswad, Arter, Monteiro, Uchechi and others). I'd rather forgo the Prem and watch a team building for the future.
STARTING combinations and results:
Bougherra & McCarthy P 6 W 3 D 2 L1
Bougherra & Fortune P 9 W 4 D 2 L 3
Bougherra & Sodje P 2 W 0 D 1 L 1
Fortune & McCarthy P 7 W 1 D 4 L 2
Fortune & Sodje P 9 W 6 D 0 L 3
McCarthy & Sodje P 7 W 1 D 3 L 3
Fortune and Sodje appear to be the most effective pairing which bears out Oggy's theory of Jon being effective with a dominant figure alongside him. I have to say the results of that little exercise surprised me.
If he's nearly ready, Fortune may have a challenge just to get on the bench.
And Magic can't be far away from fitness, now - so plenty of competition for Fortune.
Oggy sums it up quite well, personally I would rather replace him with someone more reliable.
I would say the company he seems to keep has blighted his career. The Ashley Cole's etc, have got John in a comfort zone and in the mindset that he has 'made it' where in reality he has achieved very little other than becoming a pro.
He needs to get away from Charlton, and probably London. Go join some Midlands and Northern club, and get your head down and dedicate the next couple of years to trying to get something worthwhile out of his career before it is too late.
So perhaps Jon Fortune considers he has already achieved the something worthwhile from his career ...... financial security?
Has a bit of pace and skill but does better when playing off another centre half where he picks up the pieces. Maybe not a top notch Prem player but decent enough.
He did go to Stoke on loan and did well. Maybe, like Lisbie and many others at other clubs, players sometimes need to move elsewhere to get a fresh start but I'd be sorry to see him go.
And is he given no credit for the goal?