[quote][cite]Posted By: Red_in_SE8[/cite]Must admit at the time, and watching that clip several times, I thought it was a 50:50 ball. I think the Stoke player (although there may be another TV angle that suggests otherwise) was extremely unlucky. The tackle on Basey the other night seemed much worse in my view. There was no intent to injure in either tackle but that is not the point. Making tackles by throwing your self feet first at the ball is definitely something you did not see 20 or 30 years ago. And I don't remember these kind of horrendous injuries occuring in those days.[/quote]
Ron Harris, Norman Hunter, Tommy Smith, Billy Bremner, Peter Storey no shrinking violets I think, we all look back on history with rose tinted glases
Never in a million years did Shawcross set out with any malice. Very unlucky for both parties. Exactly the same as the Eduardo situation, ref only sent the tackler off once he saw the damage.
[cite]Posted By: incorruptible addick[/cite]Truly horrible and it puts Bailey's rolling and writhing on the ground into sorry perspective. Bailey should be careful he doesn't end up like the boy who cried wolf : if he ever takes a career-threatening crunch like that, there are going to be a few people saying 'get up your tart' rather than calling for the stretcher, just because of his track record.
But was it really a red card for the Stoke lad ? Not sure it was.
Surely cards have to be given for the intent or the level or recklessness, not for the end result...
WTF is it with you Bailey haters? Were you bullied by someone with ginger hair at school or something? Give it a rest FFS!
Yes, as everybody has intimated I wish him a speedy recovery; ready for the beginning of next season. I hope Shawcross is not too traumatised by todays game, as he was/is my pick to replace Terry for the World cup squad (Terry's head ain't anywhere near where it needs to be at the moment and I consider him to be a liability - but that's for another thread in a couple of months time).
Watched again and again. No intent, if you look at Ramseys leg just before impact, it looks as if his studs have got stuck in the pitch and his leg looks bent already.
A horrible incident resulting in a career threatening injury, however I am so fed up with bloody Wenger and his lot and their reactions. As a team mate of course you'd be upset seeing one of your own injured like that, but Sol Campbells reaction to the Ref and Shawcross was well OTT. Then you have Fabregass going on about protection.
Because it's Stoke, who have a reputation for being physical, and Arsenal have been accused of being too lighweight this season, then Wenger just sees it as bully boy pub players taking out his beautiful stars.
Maybe the French don't have a word fo ACCIDENT in their language?
I think the point Fabregas was trying to make was that Arsenal are seen as a flair side (fair enough) so other sides see the way to beat them is to rough them up (again fair enough) but for them to have had the type of injuries they have been having (have a look at Dan Smith's tackle on Diaby) is maybe a bit more than coincidence.
He accepted that the English league is physical and doesn't have a problem with that, but there must be a limit to what sides are allowed to do. Thing is, if you raise your physical game against Arsenal then there is a higher percentage chance one of their players will get hurt in that game. If Arsenal are getting that each time they play then the risk of injury to them is massively increased.
I understand the reaction of the players because they are pig sick of it!! They are not by a long way the worst offenders for play acting.
I'm not saying they should get special treatment but the best football played in this country is played by them, and I think referee's should officiate properly when they are having lumps kicked out of them or otherwise the top tier of the English league will rapidly go south.
Sorry Carter but I'm afraid you have been caught up in the Wenger Web. Every weekend footballers break legs. You get far more broken legs in football than you do in say rugby. You cannot compare todays incident to any other. The more I looked at the Ramsey tackle, the more I was convinced it was nothing more than a very unfortunate incident.
Any broken leg by a Top Four club is big news and Arsenal and in particular Wenger has a history of being very "One Eyed". I have seen Viera put in far worse tackles whilst at Arsenal but maybe didn't have the same result.
You said "..but there must be a limit to what sides are allowed to do." I do not see the relevance of this quote in the context of todays injury. Stoke are big and physical, they are not dirty.
Football IS a physical contact sport, that doesn't mean players SHOULD be injured BUT sometimes they are.
I wouldn't call it a 50/50, but more like 60/40 ... but in no way did it seem intentional.
A potentially great career may be ruined before it got an opportunity to take off. And the reaction of the Stoke player, leaving the field in tears. He knows what he did, and his reaction shows that it was unintentional.
I feel very sorry for Ramsey, but also have sympathy for Shawcross. Neither career may ever be the same.
I just couldn't watch it replayed on MOTD tonight, I had the game on live but turned it off & must have just missed the incident - ever since someone (on here I think ) posted that Dutch video of the player getting his leg snapped, I have an aversion to these things - maybe it goes further back, I can still picture the David Busst incident!
i seem to remember a mr van persie setting out to do jimmy floyd hasselbank at the valley moments before scoring a worldy goal, didnt hear wenger moaning about the physical side of the english game that afternoon
The reaction of the Stoke player nearest the incident said it all he was first to the guy and tried to stop him moving about. Hope for the young man its not all over for him. Of course some come back some dont.
Arsene Wenger ---------------------- the man talks utter bollox.
I have the utmost sympathy for both Aaron Ramsay and Ryan Shawcross. I hope Ramsay makes a full recovery. I wouldnt wish an injury like that on anyone, even the mob from the other end of the Seven Sisters Road. Seing the game live last night, it was clear it was a 50/50 but the slo mo replay I've seen since shows that Ramsay's leg had actually snapped before the contact from Shawcross.
Anyhow...
What really gets my goat is this victimisation crap that Wenger pedals every time one of his players gets crocked. For him to say "its no coincidence" is absolute utter tosh. Yes, teams will get physical with Arsenal, thats because they all know they dont like it. What are the lesser teams supposed to do, sit back and let Arsenal run rings round them? No, course not, they're going to get stuck in use their physical presence.
Other teams get it too,including Spurs. Last year Gareth Bale was out for three-quarters of the season after a horrific challenge by Nicky Butt against Newcastle, this year Modric got done by a terrible tackle by Lee Bowyer...both which should of got straight red cards...but you dont hear Harry Redknapp bleating on about it do you?
Lets not forget one thing here. Arsenal give as good as they get too. You only have to look at their disciplinary record since Wenger took over to see that.
I think its about time the FA have a quiet word in Wenger's ear. No other professional player will intentionally go out to get another player injured (well if you leave out Roy Keane on Alf Inge Haaland). He cant keep getting away with spouting this nonsense.
On another note, am surprised that Shawcross has been called up to the England squad and Michael Dawson has been overlooked. Dawson has been quite magnificent this year and is the only in form English centre-back in the Premier League at the moment.
[quote][cite]Posted By: nth london addick[/cite]i seem to remember a mr van persie setting out to do jimmy floyd hasselbank at the valley moments before scoring a worldy goal, didnt hear wenger moaning about the physical side of the english game that afternoon[/quote]
Not sure if you are confusing the incident or this is a seperate one, but before Persie scored his wonder goal at the valley he did our argentinian defender on ther left touch line. He was out for months, notm sure if he ever played for us again.
[cite]Posted By: nth london addick[/cite]i seem to remember a mr van persie setting out to do jimmy floyd hasselbank at the valley moments before scoring a worldy goal, didnt hear wenger moaning about the physical side of the english game that afternoon
Not sure if you are confusing the incident or this is a seperate one, but before Persie scored his wonder goal at the valley he did our argentinian defender on ther left touch line. He was out for months, notm sure if he ever played for us again.
He def done Hasselbank i remember cursing him that he shouldnt even have been oin the pitch after the tackle he put in on piggybank
The reaction of the Stoke player nearest the incident said it all he was first to the guy and tried to stop him moving about. Hope for the young man its not all over for him. Of course some come back some dont.
Arsene Wenger ---------------------- the man talks utter bollox.. as goonhatter stated stupid comments from Wenger, a football incident, the Stoke player was playing the ball not the man, seemed a decent lad ....... Wengers conspiracy therories were totally inappropriate, post match
Van Persie booted Hasslebaink up the arse the season we got relegated and should have been sent straight off. He took Sorondo out the season before and Murphy got a second yellow for bouncing the ball off the ground!!
What I'm saying is sides like Burnley, Stoke, Sheffield United et all get away with a lot more fouls (and they are fouls, I've played the game I know what is and what isn't) because they commit so many of them the game would never flow the referee's overlook more.
Your mate thinks that Shawcross meant to break the lads leg?
[cite]Posted By: Algarveaddick[/cite]I think it was 50/50 from what I have seen. A friend who spoke to a couple of pros last night say they think it was deliberate, and so does he.
Comments
Ron Harris, Norman Hunter, Tommy Smith, Billy Bremner, Peter Storey no shrinking violets I think, we all look back on history with rose tinted glases
WTF is it with you Bailey haters? Were you bullied by someone with ginger hair at school or something? Give it a rest FFS!
Definitely just an accident in my opinion.
I hope Shawcross is not too traumatised by todays game, as he was/is my pick to replace Terry for the World cup squad (Terry's head ain't anywhere near where it needs to be at the moment and I consider him to be a liability - but that's for another thread in a couple of months time).
A horrible incident resulting in a career threatening injury, however I am so fed up with bloody Wenger and his lot and their reactions. As a team mate of course you'd be upset seeing one of your own injured like that, but Sol Campbells reaction to the Ref and Shawcross was well OTT. Then you have Fabregass going on about protection.
Because it's Stoke, who have a reputation for being physical, and Arsenal have been accused of being too lighweight this season, then Wenger just sees it as bully boy pub players taking out his beautiful stars.
Maybe the French don't have a word fo ACCIDENT in their language?
He accepted that the English league is physical and doesn't have a problem with that, but there must be a limit to what sides are allowed to do. Thing is, if you raise your physical game against Arsenal then there is a higher percentage chance one of their players will get hurt in that game. If Arsenal are getting that each time they play then the risk of injury to them is massively increased.
I understand the reaction of the players because they are pig sick of it!! They are not by a long way the worst offenders for play acting.
I'm not saying they should get special treatment but the best football played in this country is played by them, and I think referee's should officiate properly when they are having lumps kicked out of them or otherwise the top tier of the English league will rapidly go south.
Any broken leg by a Top Four club is big news and Arsenal and in particular Wenger has a history of being very "One Eyed". I have seen Viera put in far worse tackles whilst at Arsenal but maybe didn't have the same result.
You said "..but there must be a limit to what sides are allowed to do." I do not see the relevance of this quote in the context of todays injury. Stoke are big and physical, they are not dirty.
Football IS a physical contact sport, that doesn't mean players SHOULD be injured BUT sometimes they are.
A potentially great career may be ruined before it got an opportunity to take off. And the reaction of the Stoke player, leaving the field in tears. He knows what he did, and his reaction shows that it was unintentional.
I feel very sorry for Ramsey, but also have sympathy for Shawcross. Neither career may ever be the same.
Arsene Wenger ---------------------- the man talks utter bollox.
Think it may be a bit of a bitter/sweet moment for him last night.
Anyhow...
What really gets my goat is this victimisation crap that Wenger pedals every time one of his players gets crocked. For him to say "its no coincidence" is absolute utter tosh. Yes, teams will get physical with Arsenal, thats because they all know they dont like it. What are the lesser teams supposed to do, sit back and let Arsenal run rings round them? No, course not, they're going to get stuck in use their physical presence.
Other teams get it too,including Spurs. Last year Gareth Bale was out for three-quarters of the season after a horrific challenge by Nicky Butt against Newcastle, this year Modric got done by a terrible tackle by Lee Bowyer...both which should of got straight red cards...but you dont hear Harry Redknapp bleating on about it do you?
Lets not forget one thing here. Arsenal give as good as they get too. You only have to look at their disciplinary record since Wenger took over to see that.
I think its about time the FA have a quiet word in Wenger's ear. No other professional player will intentionally go out to get another player injured (well if you leave out Roy Keane on Alf Inge Haaland). He cant keep getting away with spouting this nonsense.
On another note, am surprised that Shawcross has been called up to the England squad and Michael Dawson has been overlooked. Dawson has been quite magnificent this year and is the only in form English centre-back in the Premier League at the moment.
Not sure if you are confusing the incident or this is a seperate one, but before Persie scored his wonder goal at the valley he did our argentinian defender on ther left touch line. He was out for months, notm sure if he ever played for us again.
He def done Hasselbank i remember cursing him that he shouldnt even have been oin the pitch after the tackle he put in on piggybank
Arsene Wenger ---------------------- the man talks utter bollox.. as goonhatter stated stupid comments from Wenger, a football incident, the Stoke player was playing the ball not the man, seemed a decent lad .......
Wengers conspiracy therories were totally inappropriate, post match
What I'm saying is sides like Burnley, Stoke, Sheffield United et all get away with a lot more fouls (and they are fouls, I've played the game I know what is and what isn't) because they commit so many of them the game would never flow the referee's overlook more.
sympathies with ramsey and shawcross
correct