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David Davies

I don't like the bloke much and I'm certainly no Tory but I admire his decision to step down and fight a by-election on the issue of the 42 days detention.

He is right about the erosion of our civil liberties which have gone on at an alarming pace under the current Government. Lets not forget that 28 days (the old position) was a huge step having gone up from 14 days. Our country is rightly known as the "mother of parliaments". Our countries legal system has in greater part been copied by many, many countries around the world, not least, the greatest super-power USA. Yet what is the maximum time and American citizen can be held before they have to be charged or released? 42 days?, 28 days? 14 days?, 7 days? 5 days? No it's 2 days, which is what our law was only a few years ago. Are they soft on terror? Are they known to put the lives of their citizens in jeopardy?

Its a fundamental principle of our laws that people are innocent until proven guilty, that the state cannot choose to lock people up without a prima facie case of evidence against them. Yet we are now going to lock up the "innocent" without the need for the police to have done their job properly. Giving them up to 42 days (or any period over 2 days) just allows them the luxury of not acting quickly enough. The facts are that they could achieved the same goal of protecting the public without locking people who are "innocent" on whim of the authorities and actually this may well act as a recruiting sergeant for terrorists who want to paint us as an authoritarian regime.

The reason that the government has gone for this is merely to look tough for Daily Mail readers. The worst kind of popularist reason for doing anything.

Comments

  • edited June 2008
    42 days behind bars, whether guilty or not, is sufficient enough time to ruin a persons life and all the more so if they do happen to be innocent!
  • gordon brown,the worst prime minister of all time.FACT.

    and what's with him dropping his jaw after every sentence?
  • When you realise that the USA has a 2 day detention period , Turkey 7 days, and the 42 days is the highest in the so called "free world" by a very very big margin.

    CCTV 300 times day in London, biggest DNA data base in the World and now that.It dosnt matter how much they say its a last resort etc etc, the errosion of the cival liberties in the UK means that terrorists have changed your country for ever and therefore have achieved one aim that of FEAR.
  • The jaw dropping thing is he is totaly gob smacked he is the PM.
  • [cite]Posted By: Goonerhater[/cite]The jaw dropping thing is he is totaly gob smacked he is the PM.

    Whats happened to his moral compass I wonder? Got lost somewhere on the road to perdition?
  • at first it seems admirable but when you think about he is is playing cheap games and gesture politics to garner himself heaps of praise - but then he always has been vain. His consituency have already elected him for this term of parliament there is no point in going through the whole process again.

    To be brave and principled he should at least let someone else contest his seat and try for a by election where the Tories did not have the sitting MP.
  • * Tough on Crime and the causes of Crime.
    * Best Chancellor ever.
    * Government must be above slease,transparent and fully accountable
    * Trying to hide disclosure of their expences
    * Iraq War and weapons of mass destruction


    these days i wouldnt trust any of them to tell me the time of day.
  • Add to that the manifesto promise of a referendum on the EU Constitution Lisbon Treaty
  • On the face of it it's a great gesture but the more you look at it, it does seem like he's on some smug, self-publicising moral crusdade.

    As Salad says, he is one vain individual. It's difficult to believe he's shed this image to suddenly become a man of the people. If he wasn't seeking re-election or at least was standing as an independent then fair play to him. But he's not. He's standing for the party from which he's just resigned and Cameron has already come out and offered his support, all of which tells me that it's all been engineered from within Tory HQ.

    If, like the Lib Dems, Labour were not to field a candidate that would f**k him right up.
  • I don't blame Gordon Brown much. Tony Blair was just a salesman that too many people believed when he came to power. At the risk of saying 'I told you so' and 'We have got we have deserved', the man is/was seriously bad news. Gordon Brown is trapped now; he has to live with what has gone before. The so-called terror threats just make all of our lives a misery - whether it is 42 days laws or fake security at airports. I am glad I am away from it as much as I can be.
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  • Gordon brown was NOT elected as Prime Minister so should not have walked into the job and a general election should have been called.
  • [cite]Posted By: Charlton Dan[/cite]Add to that the manifesto promise of a referendum on the[strike]EU Constitution[/strike]Lisbon Treaty

    And the total lie about the smoking ban...
  • [quote][cite]Posted By: Ledge[/cite]Gordon brown was NOT elected as Prime Minister so should not have walked into the job and a general election should have been called.[/quote]

    I agree with this he doesnt have a mandate. However the system we have in the UK (parliamentary representative democracy) and without codified bills of rights and the like, Its perfectly fine for him to do this. We elect individuals with party labels at a constituency level who aggregate and the leader of those with the most votes forms the government and becomes PM. People may well vote for a prime minister but that is not an intention of the political system.

    Mandate point number two.
    Brown in his Scottish constituency has no mandate to vote on English issues along, the scots have their parliament, the welsh their assembly, where is ours?
  • [cite]Posted By: Ledge[/cite]Gordon brown was NOT elected as Prime Minister so should not have walked into the job and a general election should have been called.
    We do not have a presidential system in this country, we elect governments via our local consituency MPs, it is perfectly fine for those elected governments to change their leader. Just in recent times this has happeneed with John Major, Jim Callaghan and Alec Douglas-Home.
  • [cite]Posted By: Thommo[/cite] the scots have their parliament, the welsh their assembly, where is ours?
    Er I think we have one in London!!!!!!
    Actually Blair wanted to give assemblies to all the regions of the UK but the people in the regions of the UK don't want them. The region most likely to vote for an assembly was considered to be the North East but they voted massively against the idea in 2004 so it is a dead duck for several years yet, although there has been talk of city regions having assemblies along the lines of London eg. West Midlands or Leeds-Bradford.
  • [cite]Posted By: C_f_W[/cite]On the face of it it's a great gesture but the more you look at it, it does seem like he's on some smug, self-publicising moral crusdade.

    As Salad says, he is one vain individual. It's difficult to believe he's shed this image to suddenly become a man of the people. If he wasn't seeking re-election or at least was standing as an independent then fair play to him. But he's not. He's standing for the party from which he's just resigned and Cameron has already come out and offered his support, all of which tells me that it's all been engineered from within Tory HQ.

    If, like the Lib Dems, Labour were not to field a candidate that would f**k him right up.

    It so easy to knock it but it is one of the few things an individual MP can do which can force a debate in the wider community. I suspect that he has grave doubts that the Tories, if they form the next Government, will repeal the bill because Cameron wants to do the popularist thing all the time.

    The Government is threatening to use the Parliament Act to force the bill onto the statute book when this was not a manifesto commitment and thus it is open to question as to whether they have the legal basis so to do.
    I also expect that some of the neaderthal Tories like Tebbit who are in the House of Lords, will support the Bill and he wants to ensure that the greatest amount of heat is brought to bear on the issue.

    It's one thing to fight an election on a popularist policy, another thing completely to do it on a matter of principle which is popular amongst the chattering classes but which doesn't necessary strike a chord with the wider electorate. I for one applaud him.
  • Regional assemblies seems a waste to me. Just means more paperwork. We already have local authorities to deal with local issues, I could understand maybe giving the county councils slightly more power but adding an extra layer of bureaucracy to the system is not likely to help things.
  • [quote][cite]Posted By: Salad Er I think we have one in London!!!!!!

    My point is that there is no consitutional settlement for England (the west lothian question), so Scots vote on purely English issues in the UK parliament, as do the welsh. Without having the mandate for English decision making. Id love to be able to benefit from the likes of free prescriptions, movements towards free care for the elderly plus no tuition fees for students which have been brought about within the devolved chambers.

    The assemblies were prescotts baby, and died a death with him and the fabled north east referendum. Following the sub national review all assemblies will not exist in their current form beyond 2010 when their powers will switch to regional development agencies and scruiting function and planning functions will move back to local government. However Eric Pickles the Tory spokes person for communities and local government says if the Tories get in they will abolish RDAs.

    City regions too are failing to move forward, with the sub regions becoming a larger focus within policy work. Most discussion within the regional assemblies at present is with regards to the newly proposed Regional forums for leaders with both political members and the 30% stakeholder members jostling for places.
  • [cite]Posted By: Thommo[/cite]My point is that there is no consitutional settlement for England (the west lothian question), so Scots vote on purely English issues in the UK parliament, as do the welsh. Without having the mandate for English decision making. Id love to be able to benefit from the likes of free prescriptions, movements towards free care for the elderly plus no tuition fees for students which have been brought about within the devolved chambers.

    I agree with you but there isn't the stomach for an English Parliament, at present. Still give Alex Salmond a few more years and we'll all be calling for a referendum to remove Scotland from the Union....:-)
  • [quote][cite]Posted By: kigelia[/cite]Regional assemblies seems a waste to me. Just means more paperwork. We already have local authorities to deal with local issues, I could understand maybe giving the county councils slightly more power but adding an extra layer of bureaucracy to the system is not likely to help things.[/quote]

    I think the regional assemblies have been useful in some respects, they have brought the social, economic, environmental and business partners into the policy arena. Their principal remit was to scruitinise RDAs which they havent done fantastically at, but in terms of long term planning they have been useful. Unlike councils and MPs and the problems of short termism, the assembly members and secretariats have been involved in essential planning functions. When Gordon Brown says we need however many Billion in housing stock, it has been up the the assemblies to draw up plans about how to situate and accomodate these plans within their regional spacial strategy and regional economic strategies. These operate on 9 year cycles so are a good antidote to the some of the parochial and short term elements of British local government
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