If true (Helguson thing) and I very much doubt it cos of the wage issue it would show Pards has not learned the lessons from last season. Although I quite like him as a striker - where's the service gonna come from?
[cite]Posted By: blackheathaddick[/cite]Im totally underwhelmed by this. I believe if we're going to be buying players now for over 1 mill then they have to be players that havent already proved they are not good enough for the premiership. If we get there we'll only have to replace them.
As other have said we are not a PL club, cannot afford PL transfer fees or wages and therefore our 1st job is to get out of this league buying players such as Helguson for example (someone proven at this level) and then investing in players to keep us up.
The major problem is that there is such a difference between the a PL and a CCC in terms of finances that players are happy to play 5 mins a week on £20kp/w in the PL rather than 90min a week on £5-10k p/w in the CCC. Wrong but thats the way it is.
[quote][cite]Posted By: razil[/cite]but ex prem players like him are going to be on big money..?[/quote]
Not necessarily - I doubt he's earning that much at Bolton and my guess would be that Bolton have told him that he's surplus to requirements. He knows at 30 that he has two choices - stay at Bolton on a highish salary for maybe another year but not play and then accept a lower salary in a year, or go to a team like Charlton, earn a smaller salary, but likely not that much less, sign a two/three year deal and be playing regularly.
does seem puzzling why you would get rid of chris only to spend money on a similar player rather than concentrate on midfield supply and steel issues. Pards is obsessed with forwards it seems.
Can't we just wait a couple of weeks till we can see who really has gone and who really has come in? Rather that reacting to every rumour with complaints that the squad isn't balanced yet.
Kind of underwhelmed with the Helguson thing. I wouldn't be too upset if we stick with what we have up front - at least there might be a chance of some of the strikers (particularly the youngsters) getting a decent run in the side and establishing themselves.
Please spend the cash on a midfield/defence please Mr Pardew.
I agree that we are a championship club but my point remains. If we're spending 1 million plus on players that are going to have to be replaced if we get promoted we're going to be looking at buying about 20 new players! Id much rather see that money going on people like Varney who have potential than Helguson who is proven to not be good enough. If he cant hack it at Fulham or Bolton and isnt good enough for them then he shouldnt be good enough for us.
It depends where you see us. If we're a team intending to consolidate in the championship then yes he's a good signing. But if you're looking for players that will get us out of the division AND have a chance in the premiership then I think we've got forwards already doing that.
Good points, Blackheathy ...... but surely, the bottom line is to sign players who can fit in the team NOW and win promotion, rather than wait to eventually create an all conquering team that would cruise to promotion and sweep all before it in the Prem.
That could be an almighty long wait.
Even if we wanted to sign players now to get us out of the division AND have a chance in the premiership, that 'quality' of player would be pursued by lower half Prem clubs and simply wouldn't be talking to us unless we could at the very least match wages.
And even if they DID sign for us, we would be vulnerable to those players being cherry picked by Prem clubs in January/end of season anyway.
[cite]Posted By: blackheathaddick[/cite]I agree that we are a championship club but my point remains. If we're spending 1 million plus on players that are going to have to be replaced if we get promoted we're going to be looking at buying about 20 new players! Id much rather see that money going on people like Varney who have potential than Helguson who is proven to not be good enough. If he cant hack it at Fulham or Bolton and isnt good enough for them then he shouldnt be good enough for us.
It depends where you see us. If we're a team intending to consolidate in the championship then yes he's a good signing. But if you're looking for players that will get us out of the division AND have a chance in the premiership then I think we've got forwards already doing that.
Couldn't agree more. We need younger players willing to prove themselves, not journeymen who are past their best. But if it has to be a journeyman then at least make it a decent one, Helguson isn't even good.
Im not talking about spending big money on other options. I think basically Im saying that players like helguson are by no means guaranteed to be good enough to get us out, and at 1 million Id rather spend it on players from lower leagues who have the potential than players from higher leagues who we already know cant cut it. Its a risk either way and I dont think he's good enough. Id rather get someone who might be good enough once we get there than someone we know isnt.
[cite]Posted By: blackheathaddick[/cite]Im not talking about spending big money on other options. I think basically Im saying that players like helguson are by no means guaranteed to be good enough to get us out, and at 1 million Id rather spend it on players from lower leagues who have the potential than players from higher leagues who we already know cant cut it. Its a risk either way and I dont think he's good enough. Id rather get someone who might be good enough once we get there than someone we know isnt.
When we buy players from the lower leagues there is the risk that they won't cut it at CCC level. None of the lower league strikers we signed last year - McLeod, Varney, Dickson made it, with only Varney really looking the part - and he only scored eight goals. Helguson has form at CCC level - and should be capable of scoring double figues and will cost the same as McLeod did. Which is the better deal going forward? If we get promoted Helguson will have a promotion on his CV should he decide to move on, so I think we'd recoup any money spent and if we keep him he'd make a useful back-up striker at Prem level. If we don't go up we have a solid stiker at CCC level.
I never said I preferred mcloed to him though! and to be fair to Dickson he was injured and cost virtually nothing. But I take your point. We'll see if it even happens anyway!
[cite]Posted By: blackheathaddick[/cite]Im not talking about spending big money on other options. I think basically Im saying that players like helguson are by no means guaranteed to be good enough to get us out, and at 1 million Id rather spend it on players from lower leagues who have the potential than players from higher leagues who we already know cant cut it. Its a risk either way and I dont think he's good enough. Id rather get someone who might be good enough once we get there than someone we know isnt.
And then we end up with another McCleod situation. Scored for fun in the lower leagues, didn't score a hat trick in his first game and has been slagged of ever since despite only playing a handful of games!
While I accept the point you are making, I don't think it is realistic.
I see Damian Frances (sp) is available from Watford. Seemed a real prospect when he was at Norwich (?) but not done anything since. WAS a good box to box player and play maker who scored a few goals. Maybe he, and the Brazilain, did suit Bothroyd's style.
uhmm, the Brazilian though has not played a single game in the Championship so maybe he isn't up to it. Francis wasn't a bad player BUT maybe he too has shot his bolt as it were. I'd much prefer Howard or Watson or failing that, and on our reduced budget, that bloke from Cray Wanderers whose name escapes me ....
DamienJerome Francis (born February 27, 1979 in Wandsworth, England) is a Jamaican international footballer. He is a 6 foot tall midfielder who plays for Watford.
As a child Francis followed Wimbledon, and was a ball-boy at their ground. He started playing for the club aged 9, originally as a defender, before moving into midfield.
After several successful seasons with Wimbledon Francis moved to Norwich City and made a good impression including helping them reach the Premiership by winning the Championship in season 2003-2004, scoring 14 goals from midfield.
After Norwich were relegated at the end of their first season in the Premiership after a disappointing campaign, Francis made the decision to end his two year stay at Carrow Road but remained in the Premiership by securing a transfer to promoted Wigan Athletic.
Despite Wigan's success in finishing 10th in the Premiership and reaching the League Cup final, it was a disappointing spell professionally for Francis, who didn't feature as much as he would have liked to. He signed for newly promoted Watford for a fee of £1.5 million at the start of the 2006-2007 season.
Francis would go on to feature regularly for Watford that season, playing 39 times and scoring four goals. These included a goal in Watford's run to the FA Cup semi-finals, against Ipswich Town in the fifth round. On April 21, 2007, in a game against Manchester City Francis injured his cruciate knee ligaments, an injury that kept him out for six months.[
Comments
No no no no no no no no no no
NO
Henderson is truly awful. Less finishing ability the Marcus Bent, less aerial threat than Michael Mifsud. Less pace than Toddy on crutches
As other have said we are not a PL club, cannot afford PL transfer fees or wages and therefore our 1st job is to get out of this league buying players such as Helguson for example (someone proven at this level) and then investing in players to keep us up.
The major problem is that there is such a difference between the a PL and a CCC in terms of finances that players are happy to play 5 mins a week on £20kp/w in the PL rather than 90min a week on £5-10k p/w in the CCC. Wrong but thats the way it is.
Not necessarily - I doubt he's earning that much at Bolton and my guess would be that Bolton have told him that he's surplus to requirements. He knows at 30 that he has two choices - stay at Bolton on a highish salary for maybe another year but not play and then accept a lower salary in a year, or go to a team like Charlton, earn a smaller salary, but likely not that much less, sign a two/three year deal and be playing regularly.
:)
Either Pards /Curbs and all their back room staff cant see it or there just aint the type of player we need out there.
Please spend the cash on a midfield/defence please Mr Pardew.
Which is why we look at non-league players ......
;o)
It depends where you see us. If we're a team intending to consolidate in the championship then yes he's a good signing. But if you're looking for players that will get us out of the division AND have a chance in the premiership then I think we've got forwards already doing that.
That could be an almighty long wait.
Even if we wanted to sign players now to get us out of the division AND have a chance in the premiership, that 'quality' of player would be pursued by lower half Prem clubs and simply wouldn't be talking to us unless we could at the very least match wages.
And even if they DID sign for us, we would be vulnerable to those players being cherry picked by Prem clubs in January/end of season anyway.
If we spend big money on someone who can cut it at the PL level, but not get promoted, then we risk going the way of Leeds, Leicester, Bradford etc
Couldn't agree more. We need younger players willing to prove themselves, not journeymen who are past their best. But if it has to be a journeyman then at least make it a decent one, Helguson isn't even good.
When we buy players from the lower leagues there is the risk that they won't cut it at CCC level. None of the lower league strikers we signed last year - McLeod, Varney, Dickson made it, with only Varney really looking the part - and he only scored eight goals. Helguson has form at CCC level - and should be capable of scoring double figues and will cost the same as McLeod did. Which is the better deal going forward? If we get promoted Helguson will have a promotion on his CV should he decide to move on, so I think we'd recoup any money spent and if we keep him he'd make a useful back-up striker at Prem level. If we don't go up we have a solid stiker at CCC level.
And then we end up with another McCleod situation. Scored for fun in the lower leagues, didn't score a hat trick in his first game and has been slagged of ever since despite only playing a handful of games!
While I accept the point you are making, I don't think it is realistic.
'don't rule out a purchase from Watford'
not this bloke I hope
Why not? Know nothing about him?
I see Damian Frances (sp) is available from Watford. Seemed a real prospect when he was at Norwich (?) but not done anything since. WAS a good box to box player and play maker who scored a few goals. Maybe he, and the Brazilain, did suit Bothroyd's style.
Damien Francis was close to joining in the past I understand - not sure if he's the missing link we need or not. I suspect not
As a child Francis followed Wimbledon, and was a ball-boy at their ground. He started playing for the club aged 9, originally as a defender, before moving into midfield.
After several successful seasons with Wimbledon Francis moved to Norwich City and made a good impression including helping them reach the Premiership by winning the Championship in season 2003-2004, scoring 14 goals from midfield.
After Norwich were relegated at the end of their first season in the Premiership after a disappointing campaign, Francis made the decision to end his two year stay at Carrow Road but remained in the Premiership by securing a transfer to promoted Wigan Athletic.
Despite Wigan's success in finishing 10th in the Premiership and reaching the League Cup final, it was a disappointing spell professionally for Francis, who didn't feature as much as he would have liked to. He signed for newly promoted Watford for a fee of £1.5 million at the start of the 2006-2007 season.
Francis would go on to feature regularly for Watford that season, playing 39 times and scoring four goals. These included a goal in Watford's run to the FA Cup semi-finals, against Ipswich Town in the fifth round. On April 21, 2007, in a game against Manchester City Francis injured his cruciate knee ligaments, an injury that kept him out for six months.[