Imo this is a sad day for English cricket, i for one am gutted, i know he hasnt scored many runs this year, but i dont think there is a better man even now for England captain, nobody has his nouse for the game.
If the selectors want one man to do both jobs then it has to KP as he is one of the few senior players who is in both squads. However as KP is our best player I'd rather not burden him with too much responsibility.
A lot of thanks and gratitude should go to Michael Vaughan - he was a good captain but clearly he was losing the ability to motivate the players and get them to rise to the challenge. A sad way for him to go out but at least he can say he chose to jump rather than be pushed out.
I'd like to see Rob Key come in and either open/bat three, England are going to need a few experienced heads in their top six as well as a few players who could become captain if either KP or Strauss aren't up to it.
I rate Fat Bob highly but I don't think his face fits well enough with the egg and bacon mob at Lords to be selected as a player let alone skipper.
Vaughan has class and as they say class is permanent whereas form is temporary. However his confidence is low so it should benefit him scoring some runs for Yorkshire in the county championship with a view to perhaps returning for the winter tour or next summer.
Every cloud has a silver lining and the opportunity is there to see if KP can cope with the captaincy without it affecting his batting adversely.
In terms of the batting replacement if Fat Bob is persona non grata then Owais Shah or Bopara should get a chance.
I really don't think KP is the man to lead England, hope I am wrong but he is far too erratic,but saying that I don't see who else could lead the side so maybe I am contradicting myself a bit here
I know I always take the mickey out of these Cricket threads, but I just cannot see why this has happened, has certainly been one of English Crickets better captains, England will only be worse for his loss.
Statistically he's been the best - 51 Tests as captain and 26 wins, 14 draws and 11 defeats is as good as any. At his peak - 2003-2005 England were the second best Test team in the world and after the 2005 Ashes victory briefly they were the best. But he knackered his knees, senior players like Trescothick and Harmison had problems, Flintoff got injured, Duncan Fletcher with whom he had a great rapport resigned as coach and the wheels were falling off the bus by the end. Sad to say but he could no longer motivate or instill the right amount of team discipline and he knew that it was time to go.
Sorry to be the lone dissenting voice but, talented batsman though he once was (and it is quite a time since he played a big innings against a great attack), Vaughan has always been a smug, self-satisfied tosser. Should not have been brought back after the Oz debacle downunder which, of course, he didnt play in but (by all accounts) was a thoroughly negative influence in the dressing room.
KP an even bigger tosser of course but am glad that Key won't get it as he'll only unfairly treated (as Chris Cowdrey was) and Kent would be significantly the worse for his absence.
as a SUPERKENT fan i'd like england to leave out ourRob,Joeboy and pingu; could we do worse than have Monty as captain- tho' obviously not in the oneday side ;-)
Kevin Pietersen (Hampshire, captain) Tim Ambrose (Warwickshire) James Anderson (Lancashire) Ian Bell (Warwickshire) Ravi Bopara (Essex) Stuart Broad (Nottinghamshire) Paul Collingwood (Durham) Alastair Cook (Essex) Andrew Flintoff (Lancashire) Steve Harmison (Durham) Monty Panesar (Northamptonshire) Ryan Sidebottom (Nottinghamshire) Andrew Strauss (Middlesex)
England squad for the NatWest Series and NatWest International Twenty20:
Kevin Pietersen (Hampshire, captain) James Anderson (Lancashire) Ian Bell (Warwickshire) Ravi Bopara (Essex) Stuart Broad (Nottinghamshire) Paul Collingwood (Durham) Alastair Cook (Essex) Andrew Flintoff (Lancashire) Samit Patel (Nottinghamshire) Matt Prior (Sussex) Owais Shah (Middlesex) Ryan Sidebottom (Nottinghamshire) Graeme Swann (Nottinghamshire) Chris Tremlett (Hampshire) Luke Wright (Sussex)
Yet again, the wider problems means the Ambrose debacle slips under the radar. This guy must be the luckiest guy to ever pull the England shirt on - very, very lucky to have so many other issues going on when, quite clearly, the selectors should be dropping him.
[cite]Posted By: PeanutsMolloy[/cite]Sorry to be the lone dissenting voice but, talented batsman though he once was (and it is quite a time since he played a big innings against a great attack), Vaughan has always been a smug, self-satisfied tosser. Should not have been brought back after the Oz debacle downunder which, of course, he didnt play in but (by all accounts) was a thoroughly negative influence in the dressing room.
KP an even bigger tosser of course but am glad that Key won't get it as he'll only unfairly treated (as Chris Cowdrey was) and Kent would be significantly the worse for his absence.
Don't beat about the bush Peanuts, say what you really mean ; - )
Just like with the rugby a captain and a team get over praised for one win over the Aussies.
Im not sure KP will make a great captain and his average is bound to drop.
Gotta give him a go though, no one else other than Key but how can you not pick a guy for 5 years and then put him straight in as captain.
Personally Key should have gone to NZ or come in instead of Strauss against NZ over here (even though Strauss did do well), that way he could have proved himself as an international batsmen again and been a shoe in for captain.
Good news for Kent that he didnt though otherwise they wouldnt be half the one day side they have become.
[cite]Posted By: PeanutsMolloy[/cite]Sorry to be the lone dissenting voice but, talented batsman though he once was (and it is quite a time since he played a big innings against a great attack), Vaughan has always been a smug, self-satisfied tosser. Should not have been brought back after the Oz debacle downunder which, of course, he didnt play in but (by all accounts) was a thoroughly negative influence in the dressing room.
KP an even bigger tosser of course but am glad that Key won't get it as he'll only unfairly treated (as Chris Cowdrey was) and Kent would be significantly the worse for his absence.
[cite]Posted By: PeanutsMolloy[/cite]Sorry to be the lone dissenting voice but, talented batsman though he once was (and it is quite a time since he played a big innings against a great attack), Vaughan has always been a smug, self-satisfied tosser. Should not have been brought back after the Oz debacle downunder which, of course, he didnt play in but (by all accounts) was a thoroughly negative influence in the dressing room.
KP an even bigger tosser of course but am glad that Key won't get it as he'll only unfairly treated (as Chris Cowdrey was) and Kent would be significantly the worse for his absence.
Don't beat about the bush Peanuts, say what you really mean ; - )
Just like with the rugby a captain and a team get over praised for one win over the Aussies.
Be radical England. Have a non-playing captain.
Sorry H, must do better.
Splendid idea a non-playing captain. Bit like a PM that sits in the Lords (Lord Salisbury was the last I believe). Maybe that's the answer for dismal Gordy.
In such case, re the England captaincy, surely there could be no finer candidate than your good self. You might need to brush up on your semaphore to direct the field-placings and order the heavy roller.
[cite]Posted By: PeanutsMolloy[/cite]Sorry to be the lone dissenting voice but, talented batsman though he once was (and it is quite a time since he played a big innings against a great attack), Vaughan has always been a smug, self-satisfied tosser. Should not have been brought back after the Oz debacle downunder which, of course, he didnt play in but (by all accounts) was a thoroughly negative influence in the dressing room.
KP an even bigger tosser of course but am glad that Key won't get it as he'll only unfairly treated (as Chris Cowdrey was) and Kent would be significantly the worse for his absence.
they're highly paid pros. They should know where to stand when fielding and if not the bowler can tell them.
Give the backstop a mobile and it's sorted ; -)
I don't think I'm really the best choice PM but thanks for the vote of confidence. I shall have to treat you to an Indian meal as recompense. Invite that mutual acquaintance who lives in Bromley along as well perhaps.
how can you have a captain so out of form that he warrents to still be playing
why can you not pick the best (gonna look thick here but i dont even know how may players there are in a cricket team) x amount of players in the country at that time, put them together and pick a captain from that lot.
Is there any reason why the captain has to be picked the way they do or why they even have selectors and not a manager who picks the team
[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]they're highly paid pros. They should know where to stand when fielding and if not the bowler can tell them.
Give the backstop a mobile and it's sorted ; -)
I don't think I'm really the best choice PM but thanks for the vote of confidence. I shall have to treat you to an Indian meal as recompense. Invite that mutual acquaintance who lives in Bromley along as well perhaps.
[cite]Posted By: nth london addick[/cite]forgive me as cricket is my least favorite sport
how can you have a captain so out of form that he warrents to still be playing
why can you not pick the best (gonna look thick here but i dont even know how may players there are in a cricket team) x amount of players in the country at that time, put them together and pick a captain from that lot.
Is there any reason why the captain has to be picked the way they do or why they even have selectors and not a manager who picks the team
The Australians traditionally do what you say and pick the best 11 and then choose a captain from them although I think even they have realised the importance of captaincy at times.
English thinking is that cricket, especially 5 day test cricket, is a very tactical game and because of that it is worth making sure the captain is the best available since his decisions can win or lose matches. The choice of Kevin Pietersen as captain is arguably a step towards the Australian approach since KP has little if any captaincy experience.
Michael Brearley is widely regarded as being one of the best captains England has had yet arguably he was never or scarcely worth a place in the side as a player (batsman). Yet he was captain for most of the famous 1981 Ashes series when Ian Botham ran amock and England won. We won other series under his captaincy too.
That's what worries me about picking KP as captain. Botham in 81 showed that the best player doesn't always make the best captain and it was only after he jacked in the captaincy that he destroyed the Aussies.
Botham was out for a pair in the first test of that series, his last as captain.
Comments
That job takes it's toll and I think he has made the right decision for himself. Question is who will replace him and Collingwood?
Could fat bob get the job?
The selectors want one man to do both jobs.
Pietersen will get it short term. No doubt Strauss will be mentioned again.
A lot of thanks and gratitude should go to Michael Vaughan - he was a good captain but clearly he was losing the ability to motivate the players and get them to rise to the challenge. A sad way for him to go out but at least he can say he chose to jump rather than be pushed out.
I'd like to see Rob Key come in and either open/bat three, England are going to need a few experienced heads in their top six as well as a few players who could become captain if either KP or Strauss aren't up to it.
Is there something my buddy has failed to tell me after all these years
Vaughan has class and as they say class is permanent whereas form is temporary. However his confidence is low so it should benefit him scoring some runs for Yorkshire in the county championship with a view to perhaps returning for the winter tour or next summer.
Every cloud has a silver lining and the opportunity is there to see if KP can cope with the captaincy without it affecting his batting adversely.
In terms of the batting replacement if Fat Bob is persona non grata then Owais Shah or Bopara should get a chance.
KP an even bigger tosser of course but am glad that Key won't get it as he'll only unfairly treated (as Chris Cowdrey was) and Kent would be significantly the worse for his absence.
could we do worse than have Monty as captain- tho' obviously not in the oneday side ;-)
Kevin Pietersen (Hampshire, captain)
Tim Ambrose (Warwickshire)
James Anderson (Lancashire)
Ian Bell (Warwickshire)
Ravi Bopara (Essex)
Stuart Broad (Nottinghamshire)
Paul Collingwood (Durham)
Alastair Cook (Essex)
Andrew Flintoff (Lancashire)
Steve Harmison (Durham)
Monty Panesar (Northamptonshire)
Ryan Sidebottom (Nottinghamshire)
Andrew Strauss (Middlesex)
England squad for the NatWest Series and NatWest International Twenty20:
Kevin Pietersen (Hampshire, captain)
James Anderson (Lancashire)
Ian Bell (Warwickshire)
Ravi Bopara (Essex)
Stuart Broad (Nottinghamshire)
Paul Collingwood (Durham)
Alastair Cook (Essex)
Andrew Flintoff (Lancashire)
Samit Patel (Nottinghamshire)
Matt Prior (Sussex)
Owais Shah (Middlesex)
Ryan Sidebottom (Nottinghamshire)
Graeme Swann (Nottinghamshire)
Chris Tremlett (Hampshire)
Luke Wright (Sussex)
Don't beat about the bush Peanuts, say what you really mean ; - )
Just like with the rugby a captain and a team get over praised for one win over the Aussies.
Be radical England. Have a non-playing captain.
Gotta give him a go though, no one else other than Key but how can you not pick a guy for 5 years and then put him straight in as captain.
Personally Key should have gone to NZ or come in instead of Strauss against NZ over here (even though Strauss did do well), that way he could have proved himself as an international batsmen again and been a shoe in for captain.
Good news for Kent that he didnt though otherwise they wouldnt be half the one day side they have become.
I'm surprised you don't like KP Peanuts :-)
Sorry H, must do better.
Splendid idea a non-playing captain. Bit like a PM that sits in the Lords (Lord Salisbury was the last I believe). Maybe that's the answer for dismal Gordy.
In such case, re the England captaincy, surely there could be no finer candidate than your good self. You might need to brush up on your semaphore to direct the field-placings and order the heavy roller.
Nice one Len
Give the backstop a mobile and it's sorted ; -)
I don't think I'm really the best choice PM but thanks for the vote of confidence. I shall have to treat you to an Indian meal as recompense. Invite that mutual acquaintance who lives in Bromley along as well perhaps.
how can you have a captain so out of form that he warrents to still be playing
why can you not pick the best (gonna look thick here but i dont even know how may players there are in a cricket team) x amount of players in the country at that time, put them together and pick a captain from that lot.
Is there any reason why the captain has to be picked the way they do or why they even have selectors and not a manager who picks the team
Another corker. You're full of 'em.
The Australians traditionally do what you say and pick the best 11 and then choose a captain from them although I think even they have realised the importance of captaincy at times.
English thinking is that cricket, especially 5 day test cricket, is a very tactical game and because of that it is worth making sure the captain is the best available since his decisions can win or lose matches. The choice of Kevin Pietersen as captain is arguably a step towards the Australian approach since KP has little if any captaincy experience.
Michael Brearley is widely regarded as being one of the best captains England has had yet arguably he was never or scarcely worth a place in the side as a player (batsman). Yet he was captain for most of the famous 1981 Ashes series when Ian Botham ran amock and England won. We won other series under his captaincy too.
Botham was out for a pair in the first test of that series, his last as captain.