Stephen Graham, who plays Billy Bremner, was on Soccer AM and said that the great Michael Sheen (future oscar winner IMHO), has got Cloughie uncannilly accurate.
Lots of talk on 5 Live tonight on the film. Very passionate words from Pat Murphy, BBC's Midlands correspondant. He interviewed Clough quite a few times and especially in his latter years. He was obviously fond of the man and hates the film and book.
The author also spoke and tried to make the point that it was a novel and not factual. Of course certain elements are true but for the most part it is fiction. A lot of poetic licence.
Lovejoy was on and said he loved the film. I know I will too. I have many memories of old Cloughie.
Johnny Giles was very bitter and has already won a libel case against the publishers.
It's a tough one really, any film portraying history will never be the whole truth and when it's modern history personal feelings can run high for those directly involved.
Anyway, the author of the book is apparently working on a similar style book about Sir Geoffery Boycott, now that could be fun - and expensive!
We've had Life on Mars, Red Riding and now this. Plenty of 70's stuff re-done. I am just waiting for Crown Woods -The Movie.
[cite]Posted By: Chirpy Red[/cite]We've had Life on Mars, Red Riding and now this. Plenty of 70's stuff re-done. I am just waiting for Crown Woods -The Movie.
Red Riding and Damned United were both David Peace so I guess he likes writing about that era!
Guess it's been long enough now for the nostalgia - before it was the 60s with Heartbeat and the like.
I'm a bit uncomfortable about it. What Pat Murphy said along with the fact that Old Big Ead's wife & son are objecting to it on factual grounds says to me 'Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story'?
Me too Darren. Duncan Hamilton (Provided You Don't Kiss Me) spent a lot of time with Cloughie and he has managed to convey the complexity of Cloughie's character with both insight and understanding. I gather that the Clough family is objecting to Damned United as they consider it to be one dimensional , inaccurate and a less than sympathetic portrayal. But the acting does look superb, so I'll probably succumb and go to see it.
[cite]Posted By: Darren[/cite]As long as viewers understand that too?
That's the problem, they don't.
I am sure it will be a great film but in my view it is simply morally wrong to make a film based on historical events and then to change things or insert new events to improve the entertainment value of the film.
The thing that cracks me up is that the TRUE STORY on its own is absolutely amazing so I don't know why they needed to divert from that in the first place.
The TRUE story of how Cloughie walked into his first meeting with the Leeds players and told them they should throw all their medals in the bin because they had cheated their way to all of them is just priceless! Imagine the look on Jack Charlton's face when Cloughie said that.
[cite]Posted By: Darren[/cite]As long as viewers understand that too?
That's the problem, they don't.
I am sure it will be a great film but in my view it is simply morally wrong to make a film based on historical events and then to change things or insert new events to improve the entertainment value of the film.
The thing that cracks me up is that the TRUE STORY on its own is absolutely amazing so I don't know why they needed to divert from that in the first place.
The TRUE story of how Cloughie walked into his first meeting with the Leeds players and told them they should throw all their medals in the bin because they had cheated their way to all of them is just priceless! Imagine the look on Jack Charlton's face when Cloughie said that.
I think you can say that about any film. The medals in the bin story is in the film as is the quote to Eddie Gray that if was a horse he'd be shot.
I have just watched the film again on DVD, having seen it twice at the cinema. My first impressions remain the same. Whether you are a football fan or not, this is a cracking story and the acting of the main characters high class and believable.
One thought crossed my mind. Clough clearly was an amazing character and he clearly knew how to train and motivate players. He and Peter Taylor built the Derby team, then the Forest team from very lowly beginings by getting the spine of the team right. These teams were put togther over a period of time, utilising some of the original players, supplemented by key purchases.
His problem at Leeds, (if you accept that he ruffled their feathers a lot) was that he was trying to re-mold Revies team.
Something Oggy said on another thread about Parky struck a chord. I'm not in any way comparing the genius of Clough to Parky but the fact is that he succeeded at Colchester through a steady building process and then failed at Hull when he inherited Peter Taylors team (although in players like Turner, he could certainly spot talent). His initial failure at Charlton was because he inherited Pardews team. Through the luck of our ongoing financial problems, he has been able to survive when frankly in pretty much all other circumstances he would have been sacked, and that has given him the time to build a team again.
[cite]Posted By: bingaddick[/cite]I have just watched the film again on DVD, having seen it twice at the cinema. My first impressions remain the same. Whether you are a football fan or not, this is a cracking story and the acting of the main characters high class and believable.
One thought crossed my mind. Clough clearly was an amazing character and he clearly knew how to train and motivate players. He and Peter Taylor built the Derby team, then the Forest team from very lowly beginings by getting the spine of the team right. These teams were put togther over a period of time, utilising some of the original players, supplemented by key purchases.
His problem at Leeds, (if you accept that he ruffled their feathers a lot) was that he was trying to re-mold Revies team.
Something Oggy said on another thread about Parky struck a chord. I'm not in any way comparing the genius of Clough to Parky but the fact is that he succeeded at Colchester through a steady building process and then failed at Hull when he inherited Peter Taylors team (although in players like Turner, he could certainly spot talent). His initial failure at Charlton was because he inherited Pardews team. Through the luck of our ongoing financial problems, he has been able to survive when frankly in pretty much all other circumstances he would have been sacked, and that has given him the time to build a team again.
That's a really good point and one that I would suggest would be true of many more managers if only they were allowed the time. These days though everyone wants (expects) instant success, so very few managers are given the time to model a team of their own if things don't go right from day 1.
Watched it last week on DVD, really good film whether you like football or not. Having only minimal knowlegde about Clough's time at Leeds, it was thoroughly entertaining and I am now looking forward to reading the book. I am also not trying to compare Parky to Clough but there are similarities. Also that a good assistant is vital for a club to have success. Certainly this season, Tim Breaker has come in and whether by coincidence or not, results are forthcoming.
I saw the film at the cinema and have seen it again on DVD. I thought when watching it that there was some discontinuity in the production, i.e. characters whose parts seemed incomplete or inadequately explained. If you watch the deleted scenes on the DVD all becomes clear, as these characters are filled out and the narrative is completed. I think it would be a better film with these additional scenes but I assume they were cut for artistic/timing reasons rather than legal ones, because otherwise the legal issues would arise from their inclusion on the DVD.
Anyway, I'd advise anyone with the DVD to take a look at this extra as it explains a lot about the film (and takes it closer to the novel).
Comments
Looking forward to the film.
Yeah, just looked at the clip, he's good. And Timothy Spall is a much better Peter Taylor than I expected!
I'll get it for my Dad's birthday! He would probably really enjoy it!
http://www.charltonlife.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16708
Seems like a good film though.
The author also spoke and tried to make the point that it was a novel and not factual. Of course certain elements are true but for the most part it is fiction. A lot of poetic licence.
Lovejoy was on and said he loved the film. I know I will too. I have many memories of old Cloughie.
Johnny Giles was very bitter and has already won a libel case against the publishers.
It's a tough one really, any film portraying history will never be the whole truth and when it's modern history personal feelings can run high for those directly involved.
Anyway, the author of the book is apparently working on a similar style book about Sir Geoffery Boycott, now that could be fun - and expensive!
We've had Life on Mars, Red Riding and now this. Plenty of 70's stuff re-done. I am just waiting for Crown Woods -The Movie.
Red Riding and Damned United were both David Peace so I guess he likes writing about that era!
Guess it's been long enough now for the nostalgia - before it was the 60s with Heartbeat and the like.
To be fair, the author of the original book on which the film is based has always maintained that.
That's the problem, they don't.
I am sure it will be a great film but in my view it is simply morally wrong to make a film based on historical events and then to change things or insert new events to improve the entertainment value of the film.
The thing that cracks me up is that the TRUE STORY on its own is absolutely amazing so I don't know why they needed to divert from that in the first place.
The TRUE story of how Cloughie walked into his first meeting with the Leeds players and told them they should throw all their medals in the bin because they had cheated their way to all of them is just priceless! Imagine the look on Jack Charlton's face when Cloughie said that.
I think you can say that about any film. The medals in the bin story is in the film as is the quote to Eddie Gray that if was a horse he'd be shot.
One thought crossed my mind. Clough clearly was an amazing character and he clearly knew how to train and motivate players. He and Peter Taylor built the Derby team, then the Forest team from very lowly beginings by getting the spine of the team right. These teams were put togther over a period of time, utilising some of the original players, supplemented by key purchases.
His problem at Leeds, (if you accept that he ruffled their feathers a lot) was that he was trying to re-mold Revies team.
Something Oggy said on another thread about Parky struck a chord. I'm not in any way comparing the genius of Clough to Parky but the fact is that he succeeded at Colchester through a steady building process and then failed at Hull when he inherited Peter Taylors team (although in players like Turner, he could certainly spot talent). His initial failure at Charlton was because he inherited Pardews team. Through the luck of our ongoing financial problems, he has been able to survive when frankly in pretty much all other circumstances he would have been sacked, and that has given him the time to build a team again.
That's a really good point and one that I would suggest would be true of many more managers if only they were allowed the time. These days though everyone wants (expects) instant success, so very few managers are given the time to model a team of their own if things don't go right from day 1.
I am also not trying to compare Parky to Clough but there are similarities. Also that a good assistant is vital for a club to have success. Certainly this season, Tim Breaker has come in and whether by coincidence or not, results are forthcoming.
Anyway, I'd advise anyone with the DVD to take a look at this extra as it explains a lot about the film (and takes it closer to the novel).
Some great goals and a real punch up between Francis Lee and Norman Hunter.
Football was played so differently then
Will purchase the DVD.
Some great goals and a real punch up between Francis Lee and Norman Hunter.
Football was played so differently then[/quote]
Yeah it's a fantastic game and the punch up wasn't bad either, Motson almost wets himself when it all kicks off!
Only realised I had ESPN last week. I'm hooked.
I think West Brom v Leeds was on as well which when I think WBA invaded the pitch and Leeds lost the title.
I think it was this one?.......