And still talking crap - he's just uttered his first "when I was at West Ham", you won't be surprised to hear. Wonder how many more times he'll remind us before the prog finishes?
He's had to talk about Charlton because they just showed highlights of the Burnley game (both their goals looked like poor defending and their winner seemed to be down to a bad mistake by Murty, who appeared knackered by having to play 96 mins).
AP reckons we need "more secure signings" - presumably as opposed to the here-today-gone-tomorrow loanee merry -go-round , which he started. What a nerve, although, to be honest, he does seem a little subdued. The old cockiness isn't quite there any more. I wonder why?
Also talking about Charlton's relegation struggle, he's just said that Reading and Birmingham have shown the way to do it if you want to go straight back up by taking a gamble on keeping your squad together and spending a bit of money.
Again his clear implication is that's what Charlton failed to do.Funny that, because according to Waggott a couple of weeks ago, that's exactly what we did and is the main reason for our current troubles...
Pardew is just so full of shit it is unbelievable. We kept most of our squad together (apart from Benty) and he was given a stack of money to spend (by CCC standards) and spent it on Varney, McClown, McCarthorse, Weaver, Sinclair and untried foreign players like Mouataokil, Racon and Semedo.
Where did he get us? Eleventh. And humiliating home defeats to Colchester, Plymouth and other giants of the game.
The man is an absolute bullshit artist of the first degree.
[cite]Posted By: nigel w[/cite]Also talking about Charlton's relegation struggle, he's just said that Reading and Birmingham have shown the way to do it if you want to go straight back up by taking a gamble on keeping your squad together and spending a bit of money.
Completely different situation. We were in the Prem 8 out of 9 seasons, 7 in a row. Reading and Birmingham went up and came back down after a season or two, they still had players that took them up in the first place, and weren't set up as a Premier League club in the way we were.
If he had any decency he would have quit and waived his severance fee as an apology for the terrible job he did in taking a Premiership club into Division Three. Feck all chance of that though.
[cite]Posted By: Ormiston Addick[/cite]....... We kept most of our squad together (apart from Benty) .......
I'm not so sure that we did, Ormy.
After relegation Benty was sold for £16 mill, but most of us didn't begrudge him his move.
But off the top of my head we also lost:
Scott Carson (player of the Year)
Luke Young (Skipper)
El Karkourie
Herman Hreidesson
Dennis Rommedahl
Bryan Hughes
Have I forgotten others? That's 7 players who if they'd stayed would have made a huge impact on the Championship,
(wishful thinking, I know).
And Pards wouldn't have gone out and wasted all that money trying to unearth rough diamonds.
Absolutely right oggy, a massive chunk taken out of your squad is gonna take some major repairing. Unfortunately, we've still not got any of those repairs done yet......
[cite]Posted By: Ormiston Addick[/cite]....... We kept most of our squad together (apart from Benty) .......
I'm not so sure that we did, Ormy.
After relegation Benty was sold for £16 mill, but most of us didn't begrudge him his move.
But off the top of my head we also lost:
Scott Carson (player of the Year)
Luke Young (Skipper)
El Karkourie
Herman Hreidesson
Dennis Rommedahl
Bryan Hughes
Have I forgotten others? That's 7 players who if they'd stayed would have made a huge impact on the Championship,
(wishful thinking, I know).
And Pards wouldn't have gone out and wasted all that money trying to unearth rough diamonds.
Well spotted Oggy, Yes there were more, but the point stands..
Totally agree with your last point as well...Nice to see someone isn’t try to rewrite history…
I still have my doubts that Pardew would have sold Reid as some like to believe..
The points he made on the program are valid..
Cheers, Joe. Just supposing we had scraped safety that year, you know the Fulham match had been won 2-1 without the referees intervention and Bougherra never gave away a daft penalty at Liverpool and we'd won 2-1.
There's the 4 points that would perhaps have meant another year in the Prem. So if we'd stayed up, one or 2 would no doubt have moved on but Carson said he would have stayed if Liverpool let him, for example. So maybe that team would have been more gradually evolving and not ruptured in the way it was.
Wonder where we would have been now. Like Fulham or Boro, do you think?
Yes, Oggy, you are correct in saying that we did lose more than Benty but he was the only truly irreplaceable that we lost from that squad.
Scott Carson - Was only a loan and was replaced by a decent Premiership keeper in Weaver.
Luke Young - A decent player but no way irreplaceable and the only right-back Pardew brought in was Yassin who was a massive gamble that failed. Should have bought a competent CCC full-back instead.
El Karkourie - An OK player but no way suited to the Championship, was effectively replaced with Bougherra anyway.
Herman Hreidesson - Past his best years, we had Powell, Thatcher and Youga to take his place at left-back to provide adequate replacement.
Dennis Rommedahl - Seriously? We kept the marginally more effective Thomas didn't we?
Bryan Hughes - Hardly played in that last season really. Was effectively replaced by ZZ, a much better player.
Hasselbaink - Seriously?
Diawarra - Seriously? Replaced by McCarthorse I suppose and later by Hudson.
Darren Bent - We brought in Varney, McLeod, Iwelumo and later the on-loan Lita to cover his loss.
Pardew can have no complaints about the cards he was dealt at The Valley, he tried to play his way out of the division
All this "if we had kept Andy Reid" stuff is wishful thinking. Reid was a great player, probably as good as skilful player as we have ever had, but the glaring problems at the back, the lack of an effective midfield enforcer and of any decent strikers meant we were never consistent enough anyway.
Fair points Ormy, although I never mentioned Reid.
I tried to make 2 points:
First - supposing, just supposing, we'd kept most of the Prem players and they'd formed a a core of the side in the CCC last season. Would it have had a decent shot at instant promotion, like Brum or Reading?
Second - supposing, just supposing, that we hadn't been relegated at all that season, and again we'd kept the nucleus of the squad. Where do we think we'd have been positioned now?
Just a game, a "I wonder if ......."
And if we had kept our place in the Prem, Pards surely would not have brought in the likes of Varney, McLeod, McCarthy, Fleetwood and similar .....?
[cite]Posted By: Oggy Red[/cite]Cheers, Joe. Just supposing we had scraped safety that year, you know the Fulham match had been won 2-1 without the referees intervention and Bougherra never gave away a daft penalty at Liverpool and we'd won 2-1.
There's the 4 points that would perhaps have meant another year in the Prem. So if we'd stayed up, one or 2 would no doubt have moved on but Carson said he would have stayed if Liverpool let him, for example. So maybe that team would have been more gradually evolving and not ruptured in the way it was.
Wonder where we would have been now. Like Fulham or Boro, do you think?
Unfortunately Oggy, those results were reality and we had to take the consequences…
My optimism slowly dwindled, as the number of quality players leaving the club grew, which is what happened from 2004 …
I’m as optimistic as the next person, but I don’t expect instant success from any manager, not if rebuilding becomes the main task, and that’s something all our managers had to do…
“Unearthing rough diamonds” is precisely what we end up doing, and more often than not they just don‘t pay off..
Until a Zabeel comes knocking again, I don’t believe there are any quick fixes, I would love to see us get that stability back.. Something I used to be very proud of under Curbishley’s reign…
[cite]Posted By: Oggy Red[/cite]Fair points Ormy, although I never mentioned Reid.
I tried to make 2 points:
First - supposing, just supposing, we'd kept most of the Prem players and they'd formed a a core of the side in the CCC last season. Would it have had a decent shot at instant promotion, like Brum or Reading?
Second - supposing, just supposing, that we hadn't been relegated at all that season, and again we'd kept the nucleus of the squad. Where do we think we'd have been positioned now?
Just a game, a "I wonder if ......."
And if we had kept our place in the Prem, Pards surely would not have brought in the likes of Varney, McLeod, McCarthy, Fleetwood and similar .....?
Oggy - If we had kept all those players, especially Bent, Young and Herman then we would have been strong contenders for promotion - not guaranteed though by any means. I still feel we would have problems at the back and - most significantly - in central midfield where Pardew NEVER addressed that core problem of not having a real ball-winning central midfielder like, for example, Ben Watson.
If we had stayed up then we would have been faced with the tricky issue of whether or not to keep Benty or sell him to Spuds. We would, it is true, have had 30 million quid from the TV money but I am not sure Pardew would have spent it wisely given his overall record with us.
I felt that Curbs lost his touch in the transfer market in about 2005 when he brought in Jeffers, Murphy and Rommedahl who were followed to the club by the likes of Bryan Hughes and Marcus Bent.
Darren Bent was the big exception and I really feel we should have carried on cherry picking the best CCC players like Benty (and Tim Cahill from the Scum) rather than buy players like Jeffers and Murphy who felt they were doing us a favour by playing for us.
If we ever get back to those lofty hights that is the path we will have to take.
That might have been the case in the Premiership days but Pardew was under no such restrictions in the CCC.
He had the choice between bringing in established CCC class players and players who had NEVER succeeded at that level - Varney, McLeod, Semedo, Mouataokil, Zheng, Sinclair, Racon and the rest.
The only established CCC players he bought were Iwelumo who was OK, McCarthy who was dogshit, Todorov who has been unlucky but was always a big risk, Weaver who was OK and Bougherra who was decent.
He tried to be too clever by half in his recruitment and then tried to cover his tracks this summer by bringing in solid players like Bailey and Hudson who are what you need at this level.
I saw that he was left with the difficult task of rebuilding, with signings that for me were always going to be gambles...I'm sure that wasn't all down to choice.
He wasn't given a massive transfer budget considering the number of players brought in to build up the dwindling squad, and he still lost a whole lot of good players, which people either choose to belittle or forget altogether..
He made better signings at West Ham, where circumstances were different...
I don’t accept that what we ended up with was wholly down to him or any of our managers.. That’s simply unfair …
I’ve often been reminded we are a selling club, if that the case, then we must also accept the consequences that more often than not follow that..
[cite]Posted By: joeaddick[/cite]I don't see it as “trying to be clever” Ormiston,
I saw that he was left with the difficult task of rebuilding, with signings that for me were always going to be gambles...I'm sure that wasn't all down to choice.
He wasn't given a massive transfer budget considering the number of players brought in to build up the dwindling squad, and he still lost a whole lot of good players, which people either choose to belittle or forget altogether..
He made better signings at West Ham, where circumstances were different...
I don’t accept that what we ended up with was wholly down to him or any of our managers.. That’s simply unfair …
I’ve often been reminded we are a selling club, if that the case, then we must also accept the consequences that more often than not follow that..
Going to have to disagree on this one.
I think that Pardew's signings for this football club have been shown to be an absolute joke - just look at the position he left us in losing to a five goal drubbing at home to a mediocre Sheffield United.
He pays 2.5 million for Varney and 1.5 million for McClown - Plymouth take Ebanks-Blake from Man Utd for just 300K and then sell him to Wolves for only 1.5 million!!! He's now worth about 6 million whilst we could barely give Varney away and McClown is on loan at Millwall. Nice work Al!!!
I have to differ about his transfer budget as well, he had a lot more dough to spend on players than teams like Stoke and Hull and even Palarse and yet look at how strong they are compared to the limp excuse for a squad he left behind.
For me, the gambles he took on Mouataokil, Racon, Semedo, Sinclair and even Fleetwood this season were very poor business for this club. How much would we get for ANY of those players now?
Pardew was on a very good salary at Charlton because he supposedly had the pedigree to get it right in this division, the board and the fans backed him and displayed almost unbelievable patience but he blew it.
He would have been more than happy to take the glory if he'd kept us up or got us promoted so he has to take the blame for the failures too, that's only right and proper.
Let's put it this way, how many of those players that Pardew brought to the club would have got into our 97-98 Play Off winning side or even the 99-00 Championship winning team? I reckon only one, Bougherra, and the rest would have barely made the squad.
Let's not forget he also gave away Lisbie for nothing, whilst paying out millions on the likes of Varney, Mclown, Fleetwood etc. Lisbie would have been great in this division, far better than anything we currently have.
[cite]Posted By: queensland_addick[/cite]Let's not forget he also gave away Lisbie for nothing, whilst paying out millions on the likes of Varney, Mclown, Fleetwood etc.
Lisbie would have been great in this division, far better than anything we currently have.
At first I thought he made the right call on Lisbie but now seeing where Varney and McClown have ended up the decision to spend 4 million quid on them and get less than 10 goals in return whilst Lisbie got 18 for Colchester last year says it all.
I said all along Lisbie would be good for us in the Championship,whenever we loaned him out to a championship club whilst in the prem he did very well.Poor research in my opinion.
What AFKA said. Worse than Dowie, although possibly Dowie might have inflicted the greater damage had he been given longer. But as it stands Pardew is the worst disaster to befall Charlton in the last quarter of a century.
Questions remain about the supervision of his idiocy - or lack of it. But they can wait for another day.
Seeing him on Sky Sport pontificating about the best way of getting out of the championship just turned my stomach. He laid all the foundations to get us out of the second tier - from the wrong bloody end.
[cite]Posted By: AFKABartram[/cite]He is an egotistical idiot, who in my opinion has done more harm to our football club than anyone in the past 25 years.
People can believe what they want, but what Pardew said on that show was correct, and his previous club and the clubs he mentioned are proving the point...
Comments
He's had to talk about Charlton because they just showed highlights of the Burnley game (both their goals looked like poor defending and their winner seemed to be down to a bad mistake by Murty, who appeared knackered by having to play 96 mins).
AP reckons we need "more secure signings" - presumably as opposed to the here-today-gone-tomorrow loanee merry -go-round , which he started. What a nerve, although, to be honest, he does seem a little subdued. The old cockiness isn't quite there any more. I wonder why?
Also talking about Charlton's relegation struggle, he's just said that Reading and Birmingham have shown the way to do it if you want to go straight back up by taking a gamble on keeping your squad together and spending a bit of money.
Again his clear implication is that's what Charlton failed to do.Funny that, because according to Waggott a couple of weeks ago, that's exactly what we did and is the main reason for our current troubles...
"I always found the excuse my strikers fell back on was the lack of service".
Oh. So that's why we sold Andy Reid. All down to his crap service. Now I undertand why he had to go. Thanks, Alan.
Where did he get us? Eleventh. And humiliating home defeats to Colchester, Plymouth and other giants of the game.
The man is an absolute bullshit artist of the first degree.
Completely different situation. We were in the Prem 8 out of 9 seasons, 7 in a row. Reading and Birmingham went up and came back down after a season or two, they still had players that took them up in the first place, and weren't set up as a Premier League club in the way we were.
Shitehawk.
When's West Ham's next live game ??? :-{
I'm not so sure that we did, Ormy.
After relegation Benty was sold for £16 mill, but most of us didn't begrudge him his move.
But off the top of my head we also lost:
Scott Carson (player of the Year)
Luke Young (Skipper)
El Karkourie
Herman Hreidesson
Dennis Rommedahl
Bryan Hughes
Have I forgotten others? That's 7 players who if they'd stayed would have made a huge impact on the Championship,
(wishful thinking, I know).
And Pards wouldn't have gone out and wasted all that money trying to unearth rough diamonds.
and errr....Hasselbaink!!
We lost 3 quarters of a team.
Well spotted Oggy, Yes there were more, but the point stands..
Totally agree with your last point as well...Nice to see someone isn’t try to rewrite history…
I still have my doubts that Pardew would have sold Reid as some like to believe..
The points he made on the program are valid..
There's the 4 points that would perhaps have meant another year in the Prem. So if we'd stayed up, one or 2 would no doubt have moved on but Carson said he would have stayed if Liverpool let him, for example. So maybe that team would have been more gradually evolving and not ruptured in the way it was.
Wonder where we would have been now. Like Fulham or Boro, do you think?
Scott Carson - Was only a loan and was replaced by a decent Premiership keeper in Weaver.
Luke Young - A decent player but no way irreplaceable and the only right-back Pardew brought in was Yassin who was a massive gamble that failed. Should have bought a competent CCC full-back instead.
El Karkourie - An OK player but no way suited to the Championship, was effectively replaced with Bougherra anyway.
Herman Hreidesson - Past his best years, we had Powell, Thatcher and Youga to take his place at left-back to provide adequate replacement.
Dennis Rommedahl - Seriously? We kept the marginally more effective Thomas didn't we?
Bryan Hughes - Hardly played in that last season really. Was effectively replaced by ZZ, a much better player.
Hasselbaink - Seriously?
Diawarra - Seriously? Replaced by McCarthorse I suppose and later by Hudson.
Darren Bent - We brought in Varney, McLeod, Iwelumo and later the on-loan Lita to cover his loss.
Pardew can have no complaints about the cards he was dealt at The Valley, he tried to play his way out of the division
All this "if we had kept Andy Reid" stuff is wishful thinking. Reid was a great player, probably as good as skilful player as we have ever had, but the glaring problems at the back, the lack of an effective midfield enforcer and of any decent strikers meant we were never consistent enough anyway.
I tried to make 2 points:
First - supposing, just supposing, we'd kept most of the Prem players and they'd formed a a core of the side in the CCC last season. Would it have had a decent shot at instant promotion, like Brum or Reading?
Second - supposing, just supposing, that we hadn't been relegated at all that season, and again we'd kept the nucleus of the squad. Where do we think we'd have been positioned now?
Just a game, a "I wonder if ......."
And if we had kept our place in the Prem, Pards surely would not have brought in the likes of Varney, McLeod, McCarthy, Fleetwood and similar .....?
Unfortunately Oggy, those results were reality and we had to take the consequences…
My optimism slowly dwindled, as the number of quality players leaving the club grew, which is what happened from 2004 …
I’m as optimistic as the next person, but I don’t expect instant success from any manager, not if rebuilding becomes the main task, and that’s something all our managers had to do…
“Unearthing rough diamonds” is precisely what we end up doing, and more often than not they just don‘t pay off..
Until a Zabeel comes knocking again, I don’t believe there are any quick fixes, I would love to see us get that stability back.. Something I used to be very proud of under Curbishley’s reign…
Oggy - If we had kept all those players, especially Bent, Young and Herman then we would have been strong contenders for promotion - not guaranteed though by any means. I still feel we would have problems at the back and - most significantly - in central midfield where Pardew NEVER addressed that core problem of not having a real ball-winning central midfielder like, for example, Ben Watson.
If we had stayed up then we would have been faced with the tricky issue of whether or not to keep Benty or sell him to Spuds. We would, it is true, have had 30 million quid from the TV money but I am not sure Pardew would have spent it wisely given his overall record with us.
I felt that Curbs lost his touch in the transfer market in about 2005 when he brought in Jeffers, Murphy and Rommedahl who were followed to the club by the likes of Bryan Hughes and Marcus Bent.
Darren Bent was the big exception and I really feel we should have carried on cherry picking the best CCC players like Benty (and Tim Cahill from the Scum) rather than buy players like Jeffers and Murphy who felt they were doing us a favour by playing for us.
If we ever get back to those lofty hights that is the path we will have to take.
Precisely, which highlights the diffcult task all our managers have had, having to unearth rough diamonds...Not easy!
He had the choice between bringing in established CCC class players and players who had NEVER succeeded at that level - Varney, McLeod, Semedo, Mouataokil, Zheng, Sinclair, Racon and the rest.
The only established CCC players he bought were Iwelumo who was OK, McCarthy who was dogshit, Todorov who has been unlucky but was always a big risk, Weaver who was OK and Bougherra who was decent.
He tried to be too clever by half in his recruitment and then tried to cover his tracks this summer by bringing in solid players like Bailey and Hudson who are what you need at this level.
I saw that he was left with the difficult task of rebuilding, with signings that for me were always going to be gambles...I'm sure that wasn't all down to choice.
He wasn't given a massive transfer budget considering the number of players brought in to build up the dwindling squad, and he still lost a whole lot of good players, which people either choose to belittle or forget altogether..
He made better signings at West Ham, where circumstances were different...
I don’t accept that what we ended up with was wholly down to him or any of our managers.. That’s simply unfair …
I’ve often been reminded we are a selling club, if that the case, then we must also accept the consequences that more often than not follow that..
Going to have to disagree on this one.
I think that Pardew's signings for this football club have been shown to be an absolute joke - just look at the position he left us in losing to a five goal drubbing at home to a mediocre Sheffield United.
He pays 2.5 million for Varney and 1.5 million for McClown - Plymouth take Ebanks-Blake from Man Utd for just 300K and then sell him to Wolves for only 1.5 million!!! He's now worth about 6 million whilst we could barely give Varney away and McClown is on loan at Millwall. Nice work Al!!!
I have to differ about his transfer budget as well, he had a lot more dough to spend on players than teams like Stoke and Hull and even Palarse and yet look at how strong they are compared to the limp excuse for a squad he left behind.
For me, the gambles he took on Mouataokil, Racon, Semedo, Sinclair and even Fleetwood this season were very poor business for this club. How much would we get for ANY of those players now?
Pardew was on a very good salary at Charlton because he supposedly had the pedigree to get it right in this division, the board and the fans backed him and displayed almost unbelievable patience but he blew it.
He would have been more than happy to take the glory if he'd kept us up or got us promoted so he has to take the blame for the failures too, that's only right and proper.
Let's put it this way, how many of those players that Pardew brought to the club would have got into our 97-98 Play Off winning side or even the 99-00 Championship winning team? I reckon only one, Bougherra, and the rest would have barely made the squad.
Lisbie would have been great in this division, far better than anything we currently have.
At first I thought he made the right call on Lisbie but now seeing where Varney and McClown have ended up the decision to spend 4 million quid on them and get less than 10 goals in return whilst Lisbie got 18 for Colchester last year says it all.
Questions remain about the supervision of his idiocy - or lack of it. But they can wait for another day.
Seeing him on Sky Sport pontificating about the best way of getting out of the championship just turned my stomach. He laid all the foundations to get us out of the second tier - from the wrong bloody end.
So I was right all along,see NSS knows best ;-)