[cite]Posted By: SoundAsa£[/cite]They are fine just as long as you don't want to do anything slightly out of the ordinary or have mistakenly done something wrong in checking in on line.....that's when the fun and games start.
There are quite a number of quite different scenarios on their web site which you have to be pretty on the ball to notice.
For example, I unwittingly paid for an insurance I didn't want on a short 4 day trip to Biarritz....get it wrong and there's no forgiving....you'll pay through the nose.
The website has always seemed pretty clear, up front, and honest to me. Each additional selection you choose has a price next to it, the total at the bottom updates as you go, and it is clear what the subtotal is before you pay it. How you could 'unwittingly' pay for something baffles me really - it can only be that you paid without checking the total first.
Yes, they advertise the lowest possible fare, which only a minority can access. But all businesses do that; the only difference being that it is harder to actually get them without 'playing their game' as Oggy seems to like calling it. But we're talking about flying here, not buying weekly groceries, so any company that gives me the opportunity to travel abroad for peanuts - considering the prices I pay for trains and motor travel domestically - should be applauded. The reason they CAN offer this, is because of how successful they have become due to their advertising and price structure, and making people pay for what they use. It's not something they could offer without all this, so the fact theyre doing it is beneficial to people like me who use them, so I'm glad that they do and I hope they continue to.
[cite]Posted By: Si[/cite]
The website has always seemed pretty clear, up front, and honest to me. Each additional selection you choose has a price next to it, the total at the bottom updates as you go, and it is clear what the subtotal is before you pay it. How you could 'unwittingly' pay for something baffles me really - it can only be that you paid without checking the total first.
[cite]Posted By: Si[/cite]the only difference being that it is harder to actually get them without 'playing their game' as Oggy seems to like calling it.
That's because I got burned with their system.
I thought I was getting a bargain ...... but ended up paying through the nose.
Some of you seem to know how to play the game, I didn't.
And if I'd been the only one, then Bournemouth Addick wouldn't have posted:
[cite]Posted By: Bournemouth Addick[/cite]What I can tell you all for a fact is that Ryan Air have sailed very close to the wind in terms of the legality of their advertising since they started and have in fact, contrary to some sugestions on here, been subject to prosecution on more than one occasion in relation to the 'hidden' charges.
[cite]Posted By: Oggy Red[/cite]And if I'd been the only one, then Bournemouth Addick wouldn't have posted:
[cite]Posted By: Bournemouth Addick[/cite]What I can tell you all for a fact is that Ryan Air have sailed very close to the wind in terms of the legality of their advertising since they started and have in fact, contrary to some sugestions on here, been subject to prosecution on more than one occasion in relation to the 'hidden' charges.
Which imo is a massive problem, ryanair get punished, prices go up and people who know how to click the correct buttons play the game get punished as a result of those who couldnt.
This is what I don't understand, how could it have possibly been unwittingly, unless you want looking at the screen.
You add luggage, the price goes up, you add insurance the price goes up, you add transfers the price goes up, none of it is hidden, of course you won't get it for the cheapest price possible if you want to add extras.
Think of it as going to a set menu type place to eat, the price is advertised, you go in and want special fried rice instead of boiled, the price goes up, you want a beer, the price goes up.
No one tricked you, ryanair simply took advantage of the fact you didn't know how to work the system, I'd say that's your fault, not theirs.
[cite]Posted By: Si[/cite]
The website has always seemed pretty clear, up front, and honest to me. Each additional selection you choose has a price next to it, the total at the bottom updates as you go, and it is clear what the subtotal is before you pay it. How you could 'unwittingly' pay for something baffles me really - it can only be that you paid without checking the total first.
Simple is as simple does.
What do you mean by that fella....as a matter of fact this very thing was mentioned in a recent TV programme and on a web site regarding the insurance option choice being tucked away in the list of destinations, a place where you'd never imagine in amillion years to find it.....no wonder I didn't notice it!!
[cite]Posted By: Stu of HU5[/cite]This is what I don't understand, how could it have possibly been unwittingly, unless you want looking at the screen.
You add luggage, the price goes up, you add insurance the price goes up, you add transfers the price goes up, none of it is hidden, of course you won't get it for the cheapest price possible if you want to add extras.
Think of it as going to a set menu type place to eat, the price is advertised, you go in and want special fried rice instead of boiled, the price goes up, you want a beer, the price goes up.
No one tricked you, ryanair simply took advantage of the fact you didn't know how to work the system, I'd say that's your fault, not theirs.
I didn't add the INSURANCE........... they took it without asking me!!!!
I use Ryanair quite a bit between Liverpool and Spain (Granada & Malaga). Not a particularly pleasant experience but can be very cheap IF you know what you are doing. Despite what some of you more computer literate types say there are traps for people to fall into. Also you won't get bargain flights at popular times when the service you get is a complete rip off for the price you pay.
The credit/debit card charge is just a total piss take no matter how it is dressed up and sadly sums up O'Leary for the cocky cnt he is. Surely much better to say the single fare is actually £5.99 (or whatever) rather than pretend it is 99p. We all know they need to make a profit somehow just don't take the piss.
My other gripe is the way they just decide to pull routes to 'blackmail' the small airports they use over landing fees etc. They have done this with Granada over the last couple of years. I know I benefit in general from the low costs but there is a line and Ryanair cross it too often. Must be a sh*t company to work for!
Listen Stu...I wasn't brought up in the computer age of ticking boxes for this and that.......get it. I'm not daft and I can assure you that this has now been changed on their web site because many folk were falling foul of it.....so I wasn't alone.
It seems to me that you're a real smart guy and those of us incapable of noticing certain things that a young fella like you who is used to computers and their language etc might notice straight away.
I'm sort of half OK with pooters....up to a point but you do have to keep on your toes sometimes.How about all the folk even older than me...my sister who is in her early 70's and was head girl at Roan Girls School is no dummy but she got caught out by their web site a year or two back over something or another....I honestly can't remember exactly what it was now.... she ended up having to cough up at Stanstead...something to do with carry on baggage allowance if I remember rightly.
[cite]Posted By: SoundAsa£[/cite]those of us incapable of noticing certain things
This is my point exactly, ryanair are not forcing charges upon you that you had no idea about, you simply didn't notice it, surely the fault for that has to lay wih you, not them.
I'm denying that ryanair have never set things out in such a way that makes it more likely that someone may oversee something, that's been dealt with (some cases in court) and changed, as you quite rightly point out.
I've never once said that ryanair is some amazing company that does nothing but try to look out fos it's customers best interests, quite the opposite in fact. I've simply said that what they are doing (with regards to 99p flights etc) is not illegal and if you know what your looking for, or just have a damned good look whilst booking, the prices they advertise are available.
[cite]Posted By: SoundAsa£[/cite]Listen Stu...I wasn't brought up in the computer age of ticking boxes for this and that.......get it. I'm not daft and I can assure you that this has now been changed on their web site because many folk were falling foul of it.....so I wasn't alone.
It seems to me that you're a real smart guy and those of us incapable of noticing certain things that a young fella like you who is used to computers and their language etc might notice straight away.
I'm sort of half OK with pooters....up to a point but you do have to keep on your toes sometimes.How about all the folk even older than me...my sister who is in her early 70's and was head girl at Roan Girls School is no dummy but she got caught out by their web site a year or two back over something or another....I honestly can't remember exactly what it was now.... she ended up having to cough up at Stanstead...something to do with carry on baggage allowance if I remember rightly.
I think Stu (and myself) understand this.
But, before you click the 'Pay' button, they show you what price you're about to pay. If you expected a flight for £4.99, but it says you're about to pay £15.99, or £24.99, or £99.99, you wouldn't just click 'Pay' anyway. You'd go and find out what was amiss. Right?
If you searched and couldn't find out why (unlikely, as it breaks down all the additional costs for you before the subtotal), you would go an change it before clicking 'Pay'. Right?
If you couldn't work out how to change it (because of computer illiteracy, or whatever), you'd compare prices elsewhere, and if you could get a flight cheaper somewhere else, you would book with them instead, and not just click 'Pay' on the RA site anyway. Right?
So I am genuinely confused as to how anyone can get burnt or conned or whatever.
It baffles me that people get so annoyed about all the 'extras'. Would you rather they just threw it all together in one (much higher) price and forced you to pay for everything? The advertising price is the stripped-down starting price, and you can indeed fly for that little if you go for the minimum service.
If you're not vaguely streetsmart about checking or unchecking boxes then I guess you could end with a higher price than you imagined at the end of the process. But even then once you see the price at end you are allowed to go 'hang on, why is that much?' and look back at the list of charges and change what you didn't want. There's no force compelling you to instantly pay.
You can't expect Ryanair to make it dead easy to pick the very cheapest options as they're a business, and like all businesses they'll try and push the premium options if they can, but if you don't like the price at the end go back and change things, or simply don't book.
[cite]Posted By: Stu of HU5[/cite]No one tricked you, ryanair simply took advantage of the fact you didn't know how to work the system, I'd say that's your fault, not theirs.
So there you have it, as you say yourself Stu .... "ryanair simply took advantage of the fact you didn't know how to work the system".
What sort of marketing / advertising / fair trading is that ????.
So it's my fault, that ....."ryanair simply took advantage of the fact you didn't know how to work the system"?
Well, in that case it certainly won't be my fault in future.
They can shove their cowboy marketing system right where the sun don't shine. They won't have me as a customer.
I've never said ryanair is some amazing company that treats all it's customers like kings. I said they don't break the law and if you get over charged it's due to your mistake failt, not theirs.
It's your oversight, the fact that they may have set the page up to make it slightly easier for you to make that oversight is irrelevant, you, like everyone else have access to the flights they advertise, at the prices they advertise.
[cite]Posted By: Stu of HU5[/cite]No one tricked you, ryanair simply took advantage of the fact you didn't know how to work the system, I'd say that's your fault, not theirs.
So there you have it, as you say yourself Stu .... "ryanair simply took advantageof the fact you didn't know how to work the system".
What sort of marketing / advertising / fair trading is that ????.
So it's my fault, that ....."ryanair simply took advantage of the fact you didn't know how to work the system"?
Well, in that case it certainly won't be my fault in future.
They can shove their cowboy marketing system right where the sun don't shine. They won't have me as a customer.
Maybe you could respond to mine or Sussex's points regarding how in fact you were conned by the system? I am genuinely confused as to how you could have paid more than you realised.
[cite]Posted By: Sussex_Addick[/cite]It baffles me that people get so annoyed about all the 'extras'. Would you rather they just threw it all together in one (much higher) price and forced you to pay for everything? The advertising price is the stripped-down starting price, and you can indeed fly for that little if you go for the minimum service.
If you're not vaguely streetsmart about checking or unchecking boxes then I guess you could end with a higher price than you imagined at the end of the process. But even then once you see the price at end you are allowed to go 'hang on, why is that much?' and look back at the list of charges and change what you didn't want. There's no force compelling you to instantly pay.
You can't expect Ryanair to make it dead easy to pick the very cheapest options as they're a business, and like all businesses they'll try and push the premium options if they can, but if you don't like the price at the end go back and change things, or simply don't book.
Fortunately "all businesses" are not like Ryanair and do still try to treat their customers as if they not morons!
Also just how do you "change" the check in on line fee? It isn't optional on most flights. Also read that they no longer accept the electron card!
Frankly I would prefer them to include the "extras" that are not really "extras" in the quoted price because the deceit offends me.
[cite]Posted By: Chaz Hill[/cite]
Fortunately "all businesses" are not like Ryanair and do still try to treat their customers as if they not morons!
Frankly I would prefer them to include the "extras" that are not really "extras" in the quoted price because the deceit offends me.
Well, you can't argue that Ryan Air treat their customers like morons when it's seems plainly clear from previous posts that only computer literate people can actually use their online booking system.
As for your second point - it's hardly deceit. Every time I book with Ryan Air I get the cheap price that I see on the home page or on the advertisment. They don;t deceive me, or anyone else. EVERY PRICE THEY ADVERTISE IS AVAILABLE, IF YOU ARE HAPPY TO TRAVEL WITH THE MINIMUM SERVICE. Me and many others would be pretty gutted if they put their prices up just because some people like you are too easily offended, or because others can't work their way around a pretty straightforward website.
Most large businesses in the service sector these days are using devious routes to get business.....in my trade (Stationery) the likes of Office Depot will quote prices at cost less to get an account...suddenly a month or two down the line the quoted product code will dissapear to be replaced by a different code...at a higher price for the same product...Viking...part of the same group do matrix pricing, advertising products such as copier paper at ridiculous well below cost prices......but then they have up to 15 bands of pricing on non regular purchases dependent upon how often you purchase from them....but of course nobody looks any further than the end of their noses and in the end both companies make a profit in excess of 47% in an industry where around 30% is the norm....unfortunately the smaller company cannot compete with either Vikings blanket marketing budget or OD's aggressive high turnover of sales reps....not forgetting the fact that they will actively buy business for a given period of time. Its all immoral, but sadly legal.
[cite]Posted By: Si[/cite]EVERY PRICE THEY ADVERTISE IS AVAILABLE, IF YOU ARE HAPPY TO TRAVEL WITH THE MINIMUM SERVICE.
But they aren't if you don't have an electron card.
Yes, this is the only condition (which has been mentioned in the thread so many times before I didn't feel it necessary to repeat it again). But then you are saying you expect all companies to include credit card booking fees in their advertised prices, even when there is an (albeit not widely available) alternative. The point still stands: they do not make their prices up - they are all available.
[cite]Posted By: Chaz Hill[/cite]
Fortunately "all businesses" are not like Ryanair and do still try to treat their customers as if they not morons!
Frankly I would prefer them to include the "extras" that are not really "extras" in the quoted price because the deceit offends me.
Well, you can't argue that Ryan Air treat their customers like morons when it's seems plainly clear from previous posts that only computer literate people can actually use their online booking system.
As for your second point - it's hardly deceit. Every time I book with Ryan Air I get the cheap price that I see on the home page or on the advertisment. They don;t deceive me, or anyone else. EVERY PRICE THEY ADVERTISE IS AVAILABLE, IF YOU ARE HAPPY TO TRAVEL WITH THE MINIMUM SERVICE. Me and many others would be pretty gutted if they put their prices up just because some people like you are too easily offended, or because others can't work their way around a pretty straightforward website.
Ok. Scrub morons and replace with 'pieces of shit'. But as you say you get what you pay for!
What about the 'on line booking fee'? That isn't part of the "ADVERTISED PRICE".
And the prices won't go up they will simply be presented in a more honest way.
Answer: to con people. Some people do not want to waste their lives trawling looking for the "catch" they simply want to book a flight with basic human facilities and decencies at a reasonable price.
The Ryanair defenders defeat their own argument when they say prices will go up if they become transparent. By definition the less computer savvy, often the old and poor, are subsidising you Arthur O' Dailey types.
That is morally wrong. Business should compete transparently on grounds of quality of service and competitive pricing not sharp practice.
The problem I have with the Ryan Air ticket pricing strategy is that it mitigates against those who don't get a flight for 30p. If you end up paying the standard price you still have to pay the booking fee and the extras for luggage in the hold etc. Therefore my grumble is that the cheap prices are a shoddy way to market the airline and the add-ons subsidise the cheap flights for those lucky enough to get in quick, the other 90% of the passengers on any given flight have to pay pro-rata more.
Exactly, Len & BFR. I can put up with the shoddy service provided when paying £26 return to Malaga (although advertised fare was £0.00) but people end up paying £100s during peak times.
Comments
The website has always seemed pretty clear, up front, and honest to me. Each additional selection you choose has a price next to it, the total at the bottom updates as you go, and it is clear what the subtotal is before you pay it. How you could 'unwittingly' pay for something baffles me really - it can only be that you paid without checking the total first.
Yes, they advertise the lowest possible fare, which only a minority can access. But all businesses do that; the only difference being that it is harder to actually get them without 'playing their game' as Oggy seems to like calling it. But we're talking about flying here, not buying weekly groceries, so any company that gives me the opportunity to travel abroad for peanuts - considering the prices I pay for trains and motor travel domestically - should be applauded. The reason they CAN offer this, is because of how successful they have become due to their advertising and price structure, and making people pay for what they use. It's not something they could offer without all this, so the fact theyre doing it is beneficial to people like me who use them, so I'm glad that they do and I hope they continue to.
Simple is as simple does.
That's because I got burned with their system.
I thought I was getting a bargain ...... but ended up paying through the nose.
Some of you seem to know how to play the game, I didn't.
And if I'd been the only one, then Bournemouth Addick wouldn't have posted:
Which imo is a massive problem, ryanair get punished, prices go up and people who know how to click the correct buttons play the game get punished as a result of those who couldnt.
You knew how to work the system, Stu. I didn't.
And where you got the bargain fares, I paid through the nose unwittingly.
My lesson learned: Don't trust Ryan Air.
You add luggage, the price goes up, you add insurance the price goes up, you add transfers the price goes up, none of it is hidden, of course you won't get it for the cheapest price possible if you want to add extras.
Think of it as going to a set menu type place to eat, the price is advertised, you go in and want special fried rice instead of boiled, the price goes up, you want a beer, the price goes up.
No one tricked you, ryanair simply took advantage of the fact you didn't know how to work the system, I'd say that's your fault, not theirs.
What do you mean by that fella....as a matter of fact this very thing was mentioned in a recent TV programme and on a web site regarding the insurance option choice being tucked away in the list of destinations, a place where you'd never imagine in amillion years to find it.....no wonder I didn't notice it!!
I didn't add the INSURANCE........... they took it without asking me!!!!
It's not complicated.....
There would have been a box to check, or uncheck regarding the insurance, you missed it, again, how is that ryanair's fault?
The credit/debit card charge is just a total piss take no matter how it is dressed up and sadly sums up O'Leary for the cocky cnt he is. Surely much better to say the single fare is actually £5.99 (or whatever) rather than pretend it is 99p. We all know they need to make a profit somehow just don't take the piss.
My other gripe is the way they just decide to pull routes to 'blackmail' the small airports they use over landing fees etc. They have done this with Granada over the last couple of years. I know I benefit in general from the low costs but there is a line and Ryanair cross it too often. Must be a sh*t company to work for!
It seems to me that you're a real smart guy and those of us incapable of noticing certain things that a young fella like you who is used to computers and their language etc might notice straight away.
I'm sort of half OK with pooters....up to a point but you do have to keep on your toes sometimes.How about all the folk even older than me...my sister who is in her early 70's and was head girl at Roan Girls School is no dummy but she got caught out by their web site a year or two back over something or another....I honestly can't remember exactly what it was now.... she ended up having to cough up at Stanstead...something to do with carry on baggage allowance if I remember rightly.
This is my point exactly, ryanair are not forcing charges upon you that you had no idea about, you simply didn't notice it, surely the fault for that has to lay wih you, not them.
I'm denying that ryanair have never set things out in such a way that makes it more likely that someone may oversee something, that's been dealt with (some cases in court) and changed, as you quite rightly point out.
I've never once said that ryanair is some amazing company that does nothing but try to look out fos it's customers best interests, quite the opposite in fact. I've simply said that what they are doing (with regards to 99p flights etc) is not illegal and if you know what your looking for, or just have a damned good look whilst booking, the prices they advertise are available.
I think Stu (and myself) understand this.
But, before you click the 'Pay' button, they show you what price you're about to pay. If you expected a flight for £4.99, but it says you're about to pay £15.99, or £24.99, or £99.99, you wouldn't just click 'Pay' anyway. You'd go and find out what was amiss. Right?
If you searched and couldn't find out why (unlikely, as it breaks down all the additional costs for you before the subtotal), you would go an change it before clicking 'Pay'. Right?
If you couldn't work out how to change it (because of computer illiteracy, or whatever), you'd compare prices elsewhere, and if you could get a flight cheaper somewhere else, you would book with them instead, and not just click 'Pay' on the RA site anyway. Right?
So I am genuinely confused as to how anyone can get burnt or conned or whatever.
If you're not vaguely streetsmart about checking or unchecking boxes then I guess you could end with a higher price than you imagined at the end of the process. But even then once you see the price at end you are allowed to go 'hang on, why is that much?' and look back at the list of charges and change what you didn't want. There's no force compelling you to instantly pay.
You can't expect Ryanair to make it dead easy to pick the very cheapest options as they're a business, and like all businesses they'll try and push the premium options if they can, but if you don't like the price at the end go back and change things, or simply don't book.
So there you have it, as you say yourself Stu .... "ryanair simply took advantage of the fact you didn't know how to work the system".
What sort of marketing / advertising / fair trading is that ????.
So it's my fault, that ....."ryanair simply took advantage of the fact you didn't know how to work the system"?
Well, in that case it certainly won't be my fault in future.
They can shove their cowboy marketing system right where the sun don't shine.
They won't have me as a customer.
I've never said ryanair is some amazing company that treats all it's customers like kings. I said they don't break the law and if you get over charged it's due to your mistake failt, not theirs.
It's your oversight, the fact that they may have set the page up to make it slightly easier for you to make that oversight is irrelevant, you, like everyone else have access to the flights they advertise, at the prices they advertise.
Maybe you could respond to mine or Sussex's points regarding how in fact you were conned by the system? I am genuinely confused as to how you could have paid more than you realised.
Fortunately "all businesses" are not like Ryanair and do still try to treat their customers as if they not morons!
Also just how do you "change" the check in on line fee? It isn't optional on most flights. Also read that they no longer accept the electron card!
Frankly I would prefer them to include the "extras" that are not really "extras" in the quoted price because the deceit offends me.
As for your second point - it's hardly deceit. Every time I book with Ryan Air I get the cheap price that I see on the home page or on the advertisment. They don;t deceive me, or anyone else. EVERY PRICE THEY ADVERTISE IS AVAILABLE, IF YOU ARE HAPPY TO TRAVEL WITH THE MINIMUM SERVICE. Me and many others would be pretty gutted if they put their prices up just because some people like you are too easily offended, or because others can't work their way around a pretty straightforward website.
Or if you turn up at Stanstead wearing only a pair of underpants and a crisp bag full of cotton wool as carry on baggage!!
Ok. Scrub morons and replace with 'pieces of shit'. But as you say you get what you pay for!
What about the 'on line booking fee'? That isn't part of the "ADVERTISED PRICE".
And the prices won't go up they will simply be presented in a more honest way.
Answer: to con people. Some people do not want to waste their lives trawling looking for the "catch" they simply want to book a flight with basic human facilities and decencies at a reasonable price.
The Ryanair defenders defeat their own argument when they say prices will go up if they become transparent. By definition the less computer savvy, often the old and poor, are subsidising you Arthur O' Dailey types.
That is morally wrong. Business should compete transparently on grounds of quality of service and competitive pricing not sharp practice.
Where is the deceit.
They advertise a flight for 99p.
Assuming you can read and don't want extras, it costs 99p.
Or take your custom elsewhere, nobody is forcing you to book with ryanair.