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As time goes by and by and by

Well, if there have been takeover talks going on and on, I am now pretty worried about the motives of any new investors/ owners. They clearly have no sense of urgency, no belief that "where there's a will, there's a way" and little concern about the Club drifting aimlessly and pennilessly towards the start of the season.

I'm now getting very close to the point of panic.
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Comments

  • I was at this point last week. I am now at the point of not caring anymore, after all it is only a game of football - or I may now just be kidding myself.
  • [cite]Posted By: 1905[/cite]I was at this point last week. I am now at the point of not caring anymore, after all it is only a game of football - or I may now just be kidding myself.

    Nail on the head.

    I entered the don't care anymore stage about 2 weeks ago.

    The amount of takeover threads that have been on here is farcical.

    Nothing we can do about it at all.

    Some people might want to get a hobby to focus their minds elsewhere.
  • Football is my hobby!

    ;-)
  • Weegie

    It might not be a problem on the buyer's side. In my own business area I watched twelve months of negotiation to buy an ad agency. The sellers were local, the potential buyers were WPP. They have tried and tested systems for working out the worth of a company. The locals kept holding out for more, because they had to have enough to pay off a 'secret' investor, but would not admit it to WPP.

    So it could be the buyer, or it could be the seller, or (one of them.)
  • Anyone else have the gut feeling that Murray and Chapple may not be singing from the same hymn sheet.....I've no evidence of this and don't wish to speak out of turn but one get's the nagging feeling that this may well be the case!
  • i think you're right soundas ...
    i heard that in january chapple wanted a spend up but murray didn't want to so they weren't singing from the same hymn sheet then
  • edited June 2009
    I've no inside knowledge but Murray and Chapple may not be singing from the same hymn sheet because both have different bottom lines for entirely understandable reasons. One may have commitments which need a higher price than the other. I'm not having a pop at you Soundas because you are not saying it in those terms but I sometimes feel that Chapple being somewhat the "devil" we don't know, comes in for unfair stick. He has put his own financial "c*ck on the block" when the club needed funds to survive. If it is he who is holding out (and this is pure speculation), then I'm pretty sure it won't be for sheer bloodymindedness.
  • I think you need to look at other Directors other than RM and DC to see where the discontent is. IMO of course.
  • edited June 2009
    I bumped into a very well know local sports journalist a few weeks back in Bromley who told me there was disharmony amongst some of the directors which was holding things up re a takeover.
    Whether that particular takeover option 'was' scuppered as a result of this or it's an ongoing issue which cannot be resolved I simply cannot say.....but I've had this feeling for while now.If I'm wrong, may I unreservedly apologise here and now to all concerned, sometimes gut feeling are not correct.
    Maybe July 9th will reveal all!
  • too little noise and too much time has passed since RM was at the Bronley meeting to suggest that anything is going on.

    It may have . it may not have, but I would suggst that if any takover was being discussed then its all over. Over the past week the OS has been dropping little hints with references to "Parkinsons squad" etc etc and with Llera now signing makes me think Parky is in charge for the forthcoming season.
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  • [cite]Posted By: WSS[/cite]I think you need to look at other Directors other than RM and DC to see where the discontent is. IMO of course.


    Thats intriguing. You going to elaborate?
  • Just a gut feeling more than anything. I believe that every single director at the club will have Charlton in their hearts.

    That being said, some things, despite what we may think, are bigger than football and bigger than Charlton Athletic. There may or may not be people who have invested sums of money in the club and are not willing to lose £x if and when a takeover happens and may hold out for more. No problem with that at all personally.

    I don't really know the ins and outs of takeovers so I'm not going to bang on about it but I just think we all as supporters need to realise that significant amounts of cash are potentially being talked about and Personal vs. Charlton is a difficult one to call for those involved.
  • [cite]Posted By: WSS[/cite]Just a gut feeling more than anything. I believe that every single director at the club will have Charlton in their hearts.

    That being said, some things, despite what we may think, are bigger than football and bigger than Charlton Athletic. There may or may not be people who have invested sums of money in the club and are not willing to lose £x if and when a takeover happens and may hold out for more. No problem with that at all personally.

    I don't really know the ins and outs of takeovers so I'm not going to bang on about it but I just think we all as supporters need to realise that significant amounts of cash are potentially being talked about and Personal vs. Charlton is a difficult one to call for those involved.

    Absolutely spot on, i saw some berk on another site who said the delay of the takeover was down to the greed of certain directors who weren't willing to just write off millions of pounds owed to them! Some people seem to think that by paying for their season ticket they're entitled to demand how the club, and by whom the club, is run.
  • Remember too that several of the directors will no doubt have had their arses singed in the current recession.Some of them will have invested in Charlton because at the time they simply had that money to play with (for want of a better expression) and put it into something that they enjoyed being a part of....Suddenly that money may have become far more important to them than they might have forseen.
  • [cite]Posted By: SoundAsa£[/cite]Remember too that several of the directors will no doubt have had their arses singed in the current recession.Some of them will have invested in Charlton because at the time they simply had that money to play with (for want of a better expression) and put it into something that they enjoyed being a part of....Suddenly that money may have become far more important to them than they might have forseen.

    I know how they must feel - my share portfolio fell by £68.26 - slowly working its way back up.
  • [cite]Posted By: 1905[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: SoundAsa£[/cite]Remember too that several of the directors will no doubt have had their arses singed in the current recession.Some of them will have invested in Charlton because at the time they simply had that money to play with (for want of a better expression) and put it into something that they enjoyed being a part of....Suddenly that money may have become far more important to them than they might have forseen.

    I know how they must feel - my share portfolio fell by £68.26 million - slowly working its way back up.

    ;)
  • Mart77, Soundas,

    see this is where i disagree. I at this moment in time want what is best for Charlton Athletic and not for those that have invested in it.

    I appreciate that sounds incredibly harsh, and i am grateful for every penny that people have invested in our club.

    But to me, investment in a football club should always have been one of the heart, not the head, with a strong knowledge that if things turn for the worse, you are unlikely to retrieve all of that investment.

    And things have undoubtedly turned for the worse.
  • [cite]Posted By: AFKABartram[/cite]Mart77, Soundas,

    see this is where i disagree. I at this moment in time want what is best for Charlton Athletic and not for those that have invested in it.

    I appreciate that sounds incredibly harsh, and i am grateful for every penny that people have invested in our club.

    But to me, investment in a football club should always have been one of the heart, not the head, with a strong knowledge that if things turn for the worse, you are unlikely to retrieve all of that investment.

    And things have undoubtedly turned for the worse.

    Too true AFKA.Alan Sugar once said "if you want to make a few quid,stay well away from running a football club"
  • Well yes Bart of course we'd all like that to be the case...however maybe a few of their lifestyles might take a really dramatic turn for the worse...or indeed already have.Your family and their well being and future come first Bart....even you'd undoubtedly realise that were you ever to be put in such an unenviable position.
    Nice honest well meaning folk can get into all sorts of shyte just as well as money grabbing glory hunters......I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if that wasn't the case with at least some of our directors right now.
  • OK, don't know the figures, but if you put in lots of money, yet there is a prospect of getting out x pence in the pound, yet getting some money back, doesn't that make a sort of sense? if you buy a car there is depreciation.
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  • edited June 2009
    You're making extreme assumptions there Soundas, some i very much doubt are true.
    [cite]Posted By: SoundAsa£[/cite]
    even you'd undoubtedly realise that were you ever to be put in such an unenviable position.

    I would never invest money in a football club that in a worst case scenario, i could not afford to lose. Numerous football clubs go into administration every year, leaving 'investors' with none or only a tiny percentage of their investment.

    No one goes into this business without knowing the risks.
  • [cite]Posted By: seth plum[/cite]OK, don't know the figures, but if you put in lots of money, yet there is a prospect of getting out x pence in the pound, yet getting some money back, doesn't that make a sort of sense? if you buy a car there is depreciation.

    Thing is,If i had say a Bentley(the premier league of cars) and over a period of time my beloved motor slowly started to resemble a cortina (very league one) then understandably i'd expect quite a bit of depreciation when it came to getting rid.
  • [cite]Posted By: seth plum[/cite]OK, don't know the figures, but if you put in lots of money, yet there is a prospect of getting out x pence in the pound, yet getting some money back, doesn't that make a sort of sense? if you buy a car there is depreciation.
    Kind of, but you hope an investment might go the other way, but maybe football investment's different
  • edited June 2009
    [cite]Posted By: AFKABartram[/cite]You're making extreme assumptions there, some i very much doubt are true.
    [cite]Posted By: SoundAsa£[/cite]
    even you'd undoubtedly realise that were you ever to be put in such an unenviable position.

    I would never invest money in a football club that in a worst case scenario, i could not afford to lose. Numerous football clubs go into administration every year, leaving 'investors' with none or only a tiny percentage of their investment.

    No one goes into this business without knowing the risks.

    You say that now Bart but if as a well healed man about town you'd have had a few quid to spare a few years back when things were rosy in the world of business and finance you may well have let your heart rule your mind.Let's face it, this really has been the most catastrophic collapse of a football clubs fortunes that has been seen just about anywhere, anytime....no one but no one could have forseen such an awful scenario unfolding. Add to that the hideous reccesion we are in and it's simply 10 times worse..........not even god almighty I suspect could have seen ALL that coming....I'm pretty close to being just that and I certainly didn't..........LOL!
  • Agree with soundas, we don't know the personal financial situation of directors and if they are in dire straits you can't blame them for trying to get the best for themselves and their family. We would all do the same no matter how much we love the club. I don't doubt the motives of any of our directors and am as P1ssed off as the rest of you.but like a lot on here I have up on hoping for a takeover a while ago and it is a liberating feeling. What will be will be. We may struggle next year but personally it is about meeting good friends I have known for a few decades now through the club and even people like 1905 as well. Forget any thoughts of takeovers, white knights charging to our rescue and enjoy as much as you can the cameraederie and friendships you have made over the years of following the addicks.
  • Please don't get me wrong Bart....I'm not saying one or two of our directors are on their uppers or anything....just that they have to now be very careful indeed and the money they sunk into The Addicks over the years would be most welcome right now.
    Neither am I suggesting that they neccesarily expect to get 'all' their investment back.
    I'll have a bet with you right now Bart that one or two at least of the 17 directors we have will be thinking along those lines, I'm not talking about the well known big boys that we all know and often hear mentioned but some of the lesser names (I say that with respect)....As a local business man I know how the recession has hit home in some areas of commerce....I see it everyday on the trading estate where I have my unit....these are perilous times for the commercial sector and there's a fair few who have gone under and some about to.
    The outstanding debts owed to my company are roughly treble what they were this time last year....I simply 'have' to get some people to pay up...but that's not easy!
    By the way............. a very nice piece of sentiment from you there Mr Dowman.
  • Until we know the full details of the takeover we won't know if the possible new owners are trying to take the piss like Shepherd is with Mike Ashley at Newcastle, by offering £40 mill below the asking price. Although some may be unhappy with the Board for various reasons, i think they are at the very least entitled to barter the best deal possible (which i'm sure will happen in the next few days).
  • edited June 2009
    [cite]Posted By: AFKABartram[/cite]You're making extreme assumptions there Soundas, some i very much doubt are true.
    [cite]Posted By: SoundAsa£[/cite]
    even you'd undoubtedly realise that were you ever to be put in such an unenviable position.

    I would never invest money in a football club that in a worst case scenario, i could not afford to lose. Numerous football clubs go into administration every year, leaving 'investors' with none or only a tiny percentage of their investment.

    No one goes into this business without knowing the risks.



    I'm with AFKA on this one.

    Not only that but not selling at a loss now could also mean the value of investment fell even further later (i.e. devaluation of the club should we drop even further)

    This is something that greatly concerns me particularly when you look at what has happened at Southampton, a club who have come close to going out of existence.
  • edited June 2009
    there must be a going market value to which the monetary worth of the club is based upon,

    we own the ground the training ground was i believe bought by some of the board members so could quite easily be included in the deal, then there are properties and players

    IMO the value of the club to potential investment is X amount of pounds and the value to the key individuals on the board is x amount and they dont meet pure and simple

    for the investors to get the best price they need to play tough fix a price and stick within it the board must do the same so it could just be a toughing it out moment to see who shifts first and imo it would have to be the board that shift.

    On a different note if i felt that in my heart of hearts my business (which we are to an investor and seller) was worth x amount of pounds and i had courage in my convictions to rebuild my failing business back to where i once had it i wouldnt want to under sell its value so i would be playing hard ball too.

    the Takeover/investment is off for now so the next stage is to rebuild sell assets (players) set a business plan in place and work hard at what i done well first time round, change what didnt work and get on with it.

    Selling players is what we willl be doing for the next couple of weeks

    signing replacements that are able to cut the league we are in and not look for championship players in the 3 rd division a lot of our mistakes was looking for prem players to play in the championship

    Stick with the manager build stability as it was proven to work in the past ( i dont agree with the choice of mgr)

    Bring the youth forward and give it a go.

    Shame and there is a long way to go before we even look like getting out of this league but i reckon we can stay in it, we need to be stable from top to bottom and our club needs to heal its financial mess in the right way if we can not do it with the magic wand way
  • Fair enough to put personal interests before the club's interests I guess, however if that's the case then let's hear no more about how good it is to have genuine supporters in charge rather than self-interested businessmen. Also, if they've taken a bath on their investment, then they are in large part to blame with their acknowledged poor decision making over the last few years.

    I don't know, but it seems reasonable to assume that those with large investments have calculated that the present value of the return they get from their loans to the club is greater than the value a potential buyer is prepared to pay for a 3rd division outfit. Put harshly, it probably pays them to bleed the club rather than sell up.
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