[cite]Posted By: Addickted[/cite]I don't think many people actually consider the price of holidaying in school holiday times when they decide to have children - it's not exactly top of the list when you 'do' the pros and cons.
I also understand the supply and demand arguement that holidaying during school holidays will be more expensive as more people will want to go.
What I cant understand is that if a holiday costs £900 one week, why the hell should exactly the same product cost £1900 the following week.
THAT is the rip off.
THAT is supply and demand
No it is blatant, cynical profiteering, one consequence of which will be to reduce demand by pricing out those unable to afford the higher price so in that sense yes you are right.
However the Travel Company presumably makes money at the lower price otherwise why would they offer the holiday?
Morally it should charge the same at all times and at times of extra demand simply tell potential customers that it is fully booked. That way everybody gets a fair crack of the whip.
I realise that I am talking utopia rather than reality.
Oh come on, charging different prices at times of varying demand doesn't just apply to school holidays:
- city hotels & rail travel are generally cheaper at weekends
- latest technology is more expensive when launched, partly because those who want the most up to date model are less price sensitive
- loans are more expensive for higher credit risk
- toys are more expensive before Xmas than after
etc etc. There's nothing immoral about it, just pricing what the market will bear. I'm not in the industry but I would be surprised if travel companies do not make a loss for the rest of the year if you separated school holidays.
People with kids get lower tax rates? Since when? There are no lower tax rates, though that would make more sense. They have to beg it back from the government with the bizarre scheme that is the tax credits. The only obvious reason to do this would seem to be that it would make the government seem generous and those applying dependant on the state handout when a change to the tax thresholds would do the same thing and cost less to administer. I am surprised by how much you can earn to be entitled to tax credits, in excess of 50k would not exempt you, all very strange when it is meant to assist those in need. I must take issue with those who are moaning about the advantages of having sprogs, if those in work didn't the country would be full of benefit scrounger kids that would form an even larger percentage of the population in future. You should be grateful that people do have kids to help pay your future under funded pensions.
higher tax rate
and the joy of someones kids running round a long haul flight screaming the f**king heads off.
So you have to pay more for a holday during school breaks ? sooooooo f**kin what
100% on the money, this. I'm happy paying tax that I fair chunk of which is spent educating people who have chosen to have kids. I also accept that I won't go on holiday during school breaks because the place will be overrun with excited anklebiters.
All I really want in return, is for folk with kids to take advantage of that free education. Holidays always cost more in peak times. I don't go round wailing about the fact that it costs more to get away at xmas or new year, because I accept that economics' most basic law applies to me as well as the rest of planet earth. So, that probably means you're stuck with expensive holidays : the good news is that all parents love to lecture teenage kids about the sacrafices they made for them, this will be an ideal thing to put on the list.
higher tax rate
and the joy of someones kids running round a long haul flight screaming the f**king heads off.
So you have to pay more for a holday during school breaks ? sooooooo f**kin what
100% on the money, this. I'm happy paying tax that I fair chunk of which is spent educating people who have chosen to have kids. I also accept that I won't go on holiday during school breaks because the place will be overrun with excited anklebiters.
All I really want in return, is for folk with kids to take advantage of that free education. Holidays always cost more in peak times. I don't go round wailing about the fact that it costs more to get away at xmas or new year, because I accept that economics' most basic law applies to me as well as the rest of planet earth. So, that probably means you're stuck with expensive holidays : the good news is that all parents love to lecture teenage kids about the sacrafices they made for them, this will be an ideal thing to put on the list.
Nice one McLovin. Don't expect any replies though from parents this afternoon - they've all nipped off work early for Sports Day.
The point is the EXTENT of the differential between schooltime and non-school time.
There is presently a Court Case in the House of Lords questioning whether it is justifiable for banks to charge as much as they do given the real cost to them under the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1999 (or similar name). The chances are these charges will be found capable of being unfair. The next stage will be to quantify by how much and charged customers may well be entitled to a refund of excess charges.
In my opinion the same principle applies to holiday prices. Some increase to reflect increased demand ok fair enough but a 100% increase?
That is unfair and is one area our MPs could do something to rectify injustice if they could stop counting their expenses and giving our country to the EU for long enough!
You do know that you don't have to go on holiday if you think it's too expensive? Nobody is forcing you. You could just stay at home and enjoy some day trips out in the lovely country we live in :-)
[cite]Posted By: seth plum[/cite]The government is bringing in a white paper regarding education (you know, teacher mot's and what not) the white paper also contains this bit:
On pg 4, end of paragraph 8 in the summary document.
'In applying for a school place every parent will agree to adhere to the school's behaviour rules. Once their child is in school, the parents will be expected to sign the agreement each year and will face real consequences if they fail to live up to the responsibilities set out within it, including the possibility of a court-imposed parenting order. In turn, parents will also have the right to complain if they believe the school is not holding other parents to their responsibilities.'
Most agreements require parents to not take the kids out in term time for holidays. However what is amazing about this proposal is ' In turn, parents will also have the right to complain if they believe the school is not holding other parents to their responsibilities.' So now schools are expected to make parents parent? How totally and utterly ludicrous. Are schools now to be held to account for the lack of some people's parenting skills?
I agree and have had big arguments at my schools governor meeting regarding what schools tend to school 'home-school agreements'. They are pointless documents that mean nothing that get stuck in a drawer somewhere. All the points raised in that paragraph are already covered by other school procedures or laws why bother with something more. Parents who care will do this stuff anyway, parents who won't will not be swayed by a piece of paper.
[cite]Posted By: LenGlover[/cite]The point is the EXTENT of the differential between schooltime and non-school time.
There is presently a Court Case in the House of Lords questioning whether it is justifiable for banks to charge as much as they do given the real cost to them under the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1999 (or similar name). The chances are these charges will be found capable of being unfair. The next stage will be to quantify by how much and charged customers may well be entitled to a refund of excess charges.
In my opinion the same principle applies to holiday prices. Some increase to reflect increased demand ok fair enough but a 100% increase?
That is unfair and is one area our MPs could do something to rectify injustice if they could stop counting their expenses and giving our country to the EU for long enough!
Have you not heard of supply & demand?
I'm not sure whether the same legal decision (or even logic) can be applied to the cost of holidays. Holiday companies/flight operators will correctly claim that demand is higher during school holiday time. The only legal recourse I can see is that the holiday firms could be found to be operating a cartel or some kind of price fixing arrangement.
And the stuff about MPs and expenses is just boring soap box knee-jerk reaction crap, zzzzz....
And while you are having a rant about the EU...are you aware that it was the EU that forced the opening of the skies, allowing access to airports/flight routes for low-cost carriers and effectively killed off the monopoly/cartel system that once dominated the airline industry, and therefore allowed the likes of Ryan Air/Easyjet to prosper? But then I don't suppose the Daily Mail bothered to report that...
[cite]Posted By: Off_it[/cite]Good job some of us scroungers have kids really isn't, otherwise some of you miserable ****s would struggle to have something to moan about.
Oh, hang on a second. Nope, scrap that - on second thoughts I don't think you'd have a problem.
LOL
Maybe the higher price is the real price and the other price is discounted to fill the less busy times.
take my kids out of school every year and my parents did the same.My businees is manufacturing football kits,rugby kits and schoolwear.We also sell school uniform for a secondary school.All start in september so there is no way i can take holiday during school sumer holiday break.When my daughters secondary school questioned my decision,i told them my job didn't allow me to take time off during the six week break.In fact i said to the headteacher if i did take a holiday then it would be like him taking a holiday on the first day of term,not a lot he could say to that really.
I work fecking hard do long hours was graced with a lovely son, I dont pay lower tax i dont monopolise the holiday rota, i dont carpet book xmas, i dont get anything more than any others on here.
[cite]Posted By: Off_it[/cite]Good job some of us scroungers have kids really isn't, otherwise some of you miserable ****s would struggle to have something to moan about.
Oh, hang on a second. Nope, scrap that - on second thoughts I don't think you'd have a problem.
I think if you go back to the start of this thread you'll find that it was a parent that was whinging and wailing in the first place.
[cite]Posted By: Off_it[/cite]Good job some of us scroungers have kids really isn't, otherwise some of you miserable ****s would struggle to have something to moan about.
Oh, hang on a second. Nope, scrap that - on second thoughts I don't think you'd have a problem.
I think if you go back to the start of this thread you'll find that it was a parent that was whinging and wailing in the first place.
Whinging and wailing?
Just making a statement of fact - If you read it carefully, you will see that I paid a very reasonable amount for a weeks package holiday; indeed I am very satisfied. I was just astonsihed how much more the same holiday cost the following week.
Because those poor people who have to pay that are being ripped off.
my 12 year old got exams coming out of his bloody ears so NO WAY could we take him out term time at the moment. his science and maths GCSE exams take priority IMO so forking out a little extra is worth it this year and probably for the next few as well
BUT It is a rip off and should be allowed. it should be a little dearer but 135%.
as hillsy said if you shop around u will get a good deal we are going to turkey 2 weeks B&B for the 4 of us 2k
As some others have said above taking kids out of school can cause problems because once you let one kid do it then they will all want to do it to take advantage of the cheaper fares available and the whole concept of set-terms becomes worthless - that's why there is the 100 quid fine in place.
I have three kids and fully accept that when they start school we will have no choice but to take kids holidays outside of term-time, that's one of the pitfalls of having kids.
The problem with taking kids out of school for holidays is that - if you do it every year - then you are actually taking out a big chunk of their schooling. Let's say that you take them out of school for 2 weeks every year from ages 5 to 16 then you have actually lost them 20 weeks of term-time - that's nearly half a years worth of schooling.
The schools here in Oz (especially the private ones) are very, very strict on this and would be horrified if you even asked to take your kids out during term time and would never give you permission. A private school here would probably kick the kid out if they took two weeks off in term time unless it was a family emergency.
However, I guess there are some people who for various reasons simply cannot take holidays during school holiday periods (especially summer) so have to look at other options but the schools do have to keep a tight rein on this sort of thing.
[cite]Posted By: Steve Dowman[/cite]Difference is that oz has a decent summer and very few convicts can afford to escape anyway.
Very good. Summer season here is basically December 23rd through to end-January/early February. There is so much accomodation here that the only really peak times when prices are crazy are the actual Xmas and New Year periods.
Most Aussies go to either Bali or the Pacific Islands (Fiji) for a cheap OS holiday although Vietnam and Thailand are getting more popular.
This is a bizarre thread. It appears that the parents are on here fighting their corner in the evenings - presumably when the kids are in bed - and the singletons are on here leading the charge during the day.
Just an observation. I'll let the more intelligent amongst you question and debate why that may be - whilst I get back to filling in my tax credit application form and and decide where I fancy getting fleeced next year with the proceeds!
ledge you dont take gsce exams at 12 mate,it wouldn't do them any harm to miss a couple of weeks.If your kid was ill would you make him go to school.It's all scaremongaring.I passed every exam i took o level and had 2 weeks out of school every year.Sorry but quality time spent as a family far out weighs what they would get at school for them 2 weeks.My daughter was told they wouldn't grant the 2 weeks as they were sorting the sets out for next year classes.When she returned they had just left her in the highest set as pevious years.It's all bollox trying to achieve government standards.
[cite]Posted By: ThreadKiller[/cite]i wouldn't like to send my kids to a school where none of the parents took any notice of the schools directive's.but then that's just me.
Agreed, I think its a very dangerous precedent to set if parents start deciding which of the school rules they want to abide by and which ones they don't. What message does that send to the kids?
A free and decent quality education system is a privilege that working-class people simply did not have 100 years ago and should be respected and treasured - millions of kids around the world would love the chances that UK kids get.
Not only that, but it also puts a big strain on the schools resources if kids are taking two weeks off in term-time because the teacher then has to spend time helping the kids concerned catch up rather than spending time with the rest of the class and pushing them ahead.
Put it this way, say you are a manager of a team of 30 and you are implementing a new system at your workplace and you have three or four employees who won't turn up for the scheduled training - that means that you have to take time out from other activities in order to train them separately causing a loss of productivity all round.
I would love to see the reaction in the press if a group of Muslim students demanded two weeks off during term-time to go to Mecca for the Hajj......
All i would add, is from what i have observed when abroad, those battling to keep their tearaways safe and in sight, under control, and entertained have a very different experience to those of us without kids.
God, who'd want to go on holiday when all the kids are around, bloody nightmare. Always go in June whether UK or abroad so I get decent weather and a quiet time. Saying that going in Sept this year and missing two home games. Grr.
Comments
Oh come on, charging different prices at times of varying demand doesn't just apply to school holidays:
- city hotels & rail travel are generally cheaper at weekends
- latest technology is more expensive when launched, partly because those who want the most up to date model are less price sensitive
- loans are more expensive for higher credit risk
- toys are more expensive before Xmas than after
etc etc. There's nothing immoral about it, just pricing what the market will bear. I'm not in the industry but I would be surprised if travel companies do not make a loss for the rest of the year if you separated school holidays.
All I really want in return, is for folk with kids to take advantage of that free education. Holidays always cost more in peak times. I don't go round wailing about the fact that it costs more to get away at xmas or new year, because I accept that economics' most basic law applies to me as well as the rest of planet earth. So, that probably means you're stuck with expensive holidays : the good news is that all parents love to lecture teenage kids about the sacrafices they made for them, this will be an ideal thing to put on the list.
Nice one McLovin. Don't expect any replies though from parents this afternoon - they've all nipped off work early for Sports Day.
There is presently a Court Case in the House of Lords questioning whether it is justifiable for banks to charge as much as they do given the real cost to them under the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1999 (or similar name). The chances are these charges will be found capable of being unfair. The next stage will be to quantify by how much and charged customers may well be entitled to a refund of excess charges.
In my opinion the same principle applies to holiday prices. Some increase to reflect increased demand ok fair enough but a 100% increase?
That is unfair and is one area our MPs could do something to rectify injustice if they could stop counting their expenses and giving our country to the EU for long enough!
I agree and have had big arguments at my schools governor meeting regarding what schools tend to school 'home-school agreements'. They are pointless documents that mean nothing that get stuck in a drawer somewhere. All the points raised in that paragraph are already covered by other school procedures or laws why bother with something more. Parents who care will do this stuff anyway, parents who won't will not be swayed by a piece of paper.
Have you not heard of supply & demand?
I'm not sure whether the same legal decision (or even logic) can be applied to the cost of holidays. Holiday companies/flight operators will correctly claim that demand is higher during school holiday time. The only legal recourse I can see is that the holiday firms could be found to be operating a cartel or some kind of price fixing arrangement.
And the stuff about MPs and expenses is just boring soap box knee-jerk reaction crap, zzzzz....
And while you are having a rant about the EU...are you aware that it was the EU that forced the opening of the skies, allowing access to airports/flight routes for low-cost carriers and effectively killed off the monopoly/cartel system that once dominated the airline industry, and therefore allowed the likes of Ryan Air/Easyjet to prosper? But then I don't suppose the Daily Mail bothered to report that...
Oh, hang on a second. Nope, scrap that - on second thoughts I don't think you'd have a problem.
LOL
Maybe the higher price is the real price and the other price is discounted to fill the less busy times.
How very very very Rude ;-)
I think if you go back to the start of this thread you'll find that it was a parent that was whinging and wailing in the first place.
Whinging and wailing?
Just making a statement of fact - If you read it carefully, you will see that I paid a very reasonable amount for a weeks package holiday; indeed I am very satisfied. I was just astonsihed how much more the same holiday cost the following week.
Because those poor people who have to pay that are being ripped off.
BUT It is a rip off and should be allowed. it should be a little dearer but 135%.
as hillsy said if you shop around u will get a good deal we are going to turkey 2 weeks B&B for the 4 of us 2k
I wont comment Arf, I'll resist ;-)
I have three kids and fully accept that when they start school we will have no choice but to take kids holidays outside of term-time, that's one of the pitfalls of having kids.
The problem with taking kids out of school for holidays is that - if you do it every year - then you are actually taking out a big chunk of their schooling. Let's say that you take them out of school for 2 weeks every year from ages 5 to 16 then you have actually lost them 20 weeks of term-time - that's nearly half a years worth of schooling.
The schools here in Oz (especially the private ones) are very, very strict on this and would be horrified if you even asked to take your kids out during term time and would never give you permission. A private school here would probably kick the kid out if they took two weeks off in term time unless it was a family emergency.
However, I guess there are some people who for various reasons simply cannot take holidays during school holiday periods (especially summer) so have to look at other options but the schools do have to keep a tight rein on this sort of thing.
Very good. Summer season here is basically December 23rd through to end-January/early February. There is so much accomodation here that the only really peak times when prices are crazy are the actual Xmas and New Year periods.
Most Aussies go to either Bali or the Pacific Islands (Fiji) for a cheap OS holiday although Vietnam and Thailand are getting more popular.
Just an observation. I'll let the more intelligent amongst you question and debate why that may be - whilst I get back to filling in my tax credit application form and and decide where I fancy getting fleeced next year with the proceeds!
;-)
Agreed, I think its a very dangerous precedent to set if parents start deciding which of the school rules they want to abide by and which ones they don't. What message does that send to the kids?
A free and decent quality education system is a privilege that working-class people simply did not have 100 years ago and should be respected and treasured - millions of kids around the world would love the chances that UK kids get.
Not only that, but it also puts a big strain on the schools resources if kids are taking two weeks off in term-time because the teacher then has to spend time helping the kids concerned catch up rather than spending time with the rest of the class and pushing them ahead.
Put it this way, say you are a manager of a team of 30 and you are implementing a new system at your workplace and you have three or four employees who won't turn up for the scheduled training - that means that you have to take time out from other activities in order to train them separately causing a loss of productivity all round.
I would love to see the reaction in the press if a group of Muslim students demanded two weeks off during term-time to go to Mecca for the Hajj......
All i would add, is from what i have observed when abroad, those battling to keep their tearaways safe and in sight, under control, and entertained have a very different experience to those of us without kids.
In fact, i'd say they need a holiday :-)