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Rushden & Diamonds winding-up order

Having signed several players in the summer, and just today made Jamie Stuart (yes, that one) their captain, it's now been leaked that there is a hearing on July 15th to wind R&D up for Inland Revenue debts. I wonder how many more clubs will go under between now and the start of the season :(

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    I know we're all under obligation to pay taxes.

    But to wind up a club because they haven't handed over what amounts to legalised robbery,
    which is a relatively small amount by football standards, and to put so many people out of work - let alone destroy what so many people and supporters have spent much of their lives working so dedicatedly for - all at the whim of some faceless civil servant in his 9-5 job.

    It's not his livelihood and life's work going down the drain.
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    [cite]Posted By: Oggy Red[/cite]I know we're all under obligation to pay taxes.

    But to wind up a club because they haven't handed over what amounts to legalised robbery,
    which is a relatively small amount by football standards, and to put so many people out of work - let alone destroy what so many people and supporters have spent much of their lives working so dedicatedly for - all at the whim of some faceless civil servant in his 9-5 job.

    It's not his livelihood and life's work going down the drain.


    But if you let one get away with it then you set a precedent. I'd presume in this case that they have patiently written letters, contacted the company and gotten no response so are now taking legal action.
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    edited July 2009
    The chances are that we are only talking about a week or two of somebody like Lampard's wages!

    Scandalous that a football club can fold for such a relatively small amount.

    Scarborough went down though so it can (and does) happen.

    One wonders why the PFA doesn't intervene. After all it is their members who will be out of work if the Club folds.
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    [cite]Posted By: LenGlover[/cite]The chances are that we are only talking about a week or two of somebody like Lampard's wages!

    Scandalous that a football club can fold for such a relatively small amount.

    Scarborough went down though so it can (and does) happen.


    Yeah this would never happen if we pulled out of the EU.

    If you outspend your income and can't pay your bills then prepare to go bankrupt. It is that simple...
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    edited July 2009
    Very Thatcherite BFR!

    You'll be reading the Daily Mail next :-)
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    edited July 2009
    I'd say there's about as much chance of that happening as there is of you reading an economics manual...or you explaining why every fault in football today is the fault of Frank Lampard...
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    Were football clubs never asked to pay their tax before we joined the EU? News to me!
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    I do wonder which planet accountants or boards at smaller clubs live on.

    "I know we just won't pay the inland Revenue but use the money to sign a couple of players which might get us promoted instead... i'm sure they'll be fine about it"

    The fans are the ones that loose out by the prats running the club.
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    What irks me about all these stories when you hear them is people saying 'Oh, its terrible that this should be allowed to happen. The tax man is out of order'. Football seems to think it should have some sort of special dispensation to avoid paying the revenue. Like that slimy turd Bates when he thought it was reasonable to tell the tax man he was going to pay them back something daft like a penny in every pound to erase Leeds' debts.
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    Absolutely agree Leroy and people like OggyRed are totally wrong. Football has a disgraceful record re the Inland Revenue, paying their taxes and paying PAYE contributions. Whereas the PFA seems to think it's 'legal' and fair that players get paid 100% of what is owed to them always, whilst every other creditor comes after them, including the inland revenue, and get a very small percentage if anything.

    Local football clubs seem to think it's great to screw local businesses and not pay the printers, caterers and cleaners. Wahey what honourable businesses. If you don't believe it then look at the aftermath of any club put into receivership. Clubs like Palace under Jordan do it time and again even when their solvent, and small businesses can't cope with the pressures this puts on them. Everyone pays taxes, the ammount of money the football league generates is immense the ammount it spends and wastes is immense. Why should feckless footballers who do very little for the size of their wage have 100% secured wages? Whilst we end up picking up the PAYE contributions because a football club is spastic with the accounts.

    I used to think football clubs twenty odd years ago should have a different taxation policy. But now with the ammount of money in the game clubs like Leicester, Southampton and Leeds should have to prioritise paying back us and the inland revenue. They were happy to take money from the state to improve grounds, they take millions in revenue for a piss poor product and want to run at a loss. Laws need to change and players should be lumped in with the rest of creditors beneath the inland revenue. It's frankly ludicrous to follow some people's conclusions and think that you and I should subsidise such pathetic businesses through our taxes. Are you a communist Len? Well let's pay players an average wage then and have the state owning their contract.
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    [cite]Posted By: Oggy Red[/cite]I know we're all under obligation to pay taxes.

    But to wind up a club because they haven't handed over what amounts to legalised robbery,
    which is a relatively small amount by football standards, and to put so many people out of work - let alone destroy what so many people and supporters have spent much of their lives working so dedicatedly for - all at the whim of some faceless civil servant in his 9-5 job.

    It's not his livelihood and life's work going down the drain.
    Problem there is Oggy that all clubs would look at that situation and some would say, lets merrily do a Rushden and spunk a load of cash on players and not bother to pay our taxes. Those that had continued honestly working to a budget and continued paying taxes for such things as schools and hospitals might then feel a bit cheated. As a club they've grown through agressive spending, so it's appropriate that it should end them.
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    As I said earlier, I know we're all under obligation to pay taxes - even though much of it is used and wasted in profligate manner. But that's not what I want to discuss right now.


    I do take the point that player salaries seem excessive, but then clubs have to pay the going rate or are simply unable to attract players of sufficient standard and can't compete. That's the fault of the system, because very few clubs are not in that situation.

    Which leads to overheads being higher than income, and maybe it's not just the taxman who's kept waiting. But then in this difficult economy, football clubs are not the only businesses struggling.

    The taxman of course is renowned for being, generally speaking, the least patient of creditors and will often use a sledgehammer to crack the proverbial nut. Sometimes a business is given easier terms to pay, but often an impossible demand to pay the entire sum outstanding within a very short period is made which cannot be met, and so a winding-up order is issued.

    A part payment isn't sufficient, so the winding-up order goes ahead and the business closed down regardless.

    In the case of a football club, it's not the players that suffer - they simply move on to pastures new.
    But at smaller clubs, it's the supporters and the hands-on people who put the graft in just to keep heads above water, and they do this unselfishly year after year, and often for nothing or very little remuneration.

    My point was: that these are the people who suffer, when one person 'doing his job' in a government office can arbitrarily decide ito issue a winding up order - it's just another day in the office to him.
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    edited July 2009
    [cite]Posted By: ColinTat[/cite]Absolutely agree Leroy and people like OggyRed are totally wrong. Football has a disgraceful record re the Inland Revenue, paying their taxes and paying PAYE contributions. Whereas the PFA seems to think it's 'legal' and fair that players get paid 100% of what is owed to them always, whilst every other creditor comes after them, including the inland revenue, and get a very small percentage if anything.

    Local football clubs seem to think it's great to screw local businesses and not pay the printers, caterers and cleaners. Wahey what honourable businesses. If you don't believe it then look at the aftermath of any club put into receivership. Clubs like Palace under Jordan do it time and again even when their solvent, and small businesses can't cope with the pressures this puts on them. Everyone pays taxes, the ammount of money the football league generates is immense the ammount it spends and wastes is immense. Why should feckless footballers who do very little for the size of their wage have 100% secured wages? Whilst we end up picking up the PAYE contributions because a football club is spastic with the accounts.

    I used to think football clubs twenty odd years ago should have a different taxation policy. But now with the ammount of money in the game clubs like Leicester, Southampton and Leeds should have to prioritise paying back us and the inland revenue. They were happy to take money from the state to improve grounds, they take millions in revenue for a piss poor product and want to run at a loss. Laws need to change and players should be lumped in with the rest of creditors beneath the inland revenue. It's frankly ludicrous to follow some people's conclusions and think that you and I should subsidise such pathetic businesses through our taxes. Are you a communist Len? Well let's pay players an average wage then and have the state owning their contract.

    I'm anything but a Communist Colin.

    My basic philosophy is libertarian with as little governmental and bureaucratic interference as possible.

    Nevertheless in my view there is a governmental role to prevent flagrant abuses by private business such as the doubling of holiday prices during the school holidays discussed elsewhere. A reasonable increase to reflect increased demand is fine but not blatant exploitation of an essentially captive market.

    A football club is not just a business but an important focal point of many communities.

    Therefore I'm with Oggy in suggesting that the Inland Revenue should pursue every avenue short of winding up first although I accept that the taxes are ultimately payable in the same way yours or mine are.
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