Terry Nutkins - Don't tell me to wake up mate. I go to these places and I see it. And i'll be honest in my assesment of the situations too. Difference is, you read some sensationalised b*ll*cks in the Sun and see "Millwall fans on a two-day orgy of violence" and actually believe that it must have been like something from Platoon. I'm fully aware of our reputation. I'm not trying to convince anyone that it doesn't exist. I'm just trying to say that times change.
If RU1986 is honestly asking what it's going to be like, i'm trying to say (...the Millwall fan), go along, enjoy your day out. He might have to be a bit cautions in the same way you would if you went Cardiff, or Leeds, etc, but dont let it ruin the day. But if i was him and saw some of the stories you lot feed him, i wouldn't wanna f**king know!
You have good and bad at every club but millwall do have a larger number of phycos then a normal club!
Example...
My mate jon goes to Millwall 2 or 3 times a season due to working abroard he is a family guy but when he goes he turns into a pleb! His excuse is "You have to give it when you go or you are seen as weak form the other fans!" He also says thats the coo with most other millwall fans its all about reputation!
Apart from Cardiff and Man yoo and maybe 2 others tell me a team that when they go away from home their rep gets there 2 days before they play there??
Thanks Groucho your advice has been invauable because as you say you see it every week.
My old man has some pretty nasty stories from the 70's 80's about you boys but as he/you say times have changed, and its not that way anymore. I have been to Cardiff and yes its not as bad as everyone makes out a bit intimadating but not that bad.
The Media don't help though do they mate.
Dont believe everything you read or see on TV Gentleman.
The Sun is full of S***t anyway never read that rubbish.
Millwall has an average support of 9,000 or thereabouts.
After the Birmingham match a few years back 900 were arrested the majority of whom were Millwall.
10% psychopath ratio compared to perhaps 1% at Charlton and other similar clubs.
I am not a trouble seeker but with nearly 1,000 psychos on the rampage there is a high probability of getting sucked in by virtue of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
The above summarises why my family won't be attending either fixture and I will be giving a lot of consideration as to whether I will be attending The Valley. i definitely won't go to Bermondsey.
KBslittlesis - It wasn't the netting that gave them problems. It was the 5ft 7in Indian steward and the 3ft concrete wall that miraculously held them back. Now THAT was funny! I swear Leeds got part of the lower tier last season - the two blocks in the middle. I'd imagine you'd get that at least.
thewolfboy - Thats a fair enough assesment i suppose. I just don't think that nasty rivialry is going to be there like we had 15/20 years ago because we haven't played each other in a competitive match in so long. A lot of the older folk will tell you what it was like back in the day but they're not going to risk their arthritis playing up by getting involved again. The younger folk dont really care because there's never been that constant rivialy, and nothing to feed off. It'll be like us vs Palace (...sorry to have to compare it to that. No one deserves that!). A lot of shouting - a lot of noise. But agro? I'm not all that sure.
Call me naive if you want, but thats my take on it.
No...I believe what I heard a year or so back in The Prince of Wales pub in Forest Hill....sat there and listened to a group of about a dozen Wall planks talking about all the rucks they had been in for about 2 hours(one had come out of the slammer that day and they were having a drink up to celebrate)....never once mentioned the games or the players or scores just the aggro......absolute shyte they were...scum!
"Apart from Cardiff and Man yoo and maybe 2 others tell me a team that when they go away from home their rep gets there 2 days before they play there?? "
Leeds? Man City? Stoke? Us too, unfortunately.
Your mate Jon sounds like a bit of a wally, with all due respect. I guess it's all about the circles you move in then. I've got enough mates, family, etc that go Millwall frequently, and they're no different there to what they are away from football. All that "being seen as weak" b*ll*cks, thats his lookout. But he's a bit of a plum if he actually believes that. Another one stuck in the 80s.
I used go to the games in the late 60's and early 70's and Charlton always had more than its fair share of hooligans home and away but when we played Millwall no-one ever turned up to front them, either at the Valley or the Den....
Even against Arsenal one year we got into their end and they couldn't get us out, but against Millwall we were invisible....
Only time I remember getting the better of them was in a Kent Cup final, can't remember the year, we gave them a good pasting that day...
Hi Groucho, could I ask you one question on this subject?
Why would one of your own (a Millwall fan) choose to take his son to his first football match as a 5 year old, opt for a game at The Valley rather than a game at your place?
And just out of interest you also had a game at home that day.
His words to me were, " I love my club, but could never forgive myself if he got hurt"
He hates Charlton with a passion, but could not take his own son to his own ground for fearing for his safety.
This by the way was 3 seasons ago, not the 1980s.
cheers
Ray
Won't hear a bad word said about our local rivals, they are much more our local foe than the nigels and always have been. I would just point out that there is no way I would take my boy to the home game. Let alone the away. My first game at the real den was in 1979 or there abouts, as a 13 year old with no experience of football trouble, needless to say that day I thought they were the scum of the earth and I have seem nothing since to convince me otherwise, despite having some very close friends that supported them who really were decent blokes. It won't stop me going, as I know, probably along with everyone else on here, that we all know the little gobshite pricks that give it large èither deserve or have received a slap for their trouble, in your local, but they will try and gang up and bully anyone they come across so my guard will be up. I must stress it is not their proper fans as I have known a few decent ones, but the club seems to attract the scum and generally revel in it. I still know a few I will lump if I see em with the Steven Gerrard defence that is now enshrined in law, but only because I know they deserve it and want to get in first.
As for the away game, they don't play at their real ground anymore and it is all a bit too gay sounding round the blue (ooh get you) to go there.
Their club just seems to attract lower calibre life so to speak, good luck to em, they seem to want that.
The family enclosure is full of kids week in, week out. I also see a fair few fathers with their nippers up where I sit. To answer your question? No idea. I wont be telling him how he should look after his kids. If he honestly feels it's that dangerous, that's his lookout. But his take on the reality of the situation certainly seems well removed from what it actually is. I could hazard a guess and say it certainly doesnt sound like he's been to the Den in quite a while. But then, who am I to qestion anyones loyalty to the club. I'd certainly have no fear whatsoever in taking my kids there. Infact, I look forward to the day.
He wants to try taking them to Fulham maybe? Gets to see Premiership football there, eh?
The biggest thuggery-reveling, low-life scum c*nt I know supports Charlton. Seeing as you lot love facts, there's one for ya. He cannot wait for it to go off. And if it doesn't, he the sort of person to make sure that it does.
Always liked you groucho, even in the old net Addick days you seem a pretty sensible sort of bloke. Must be hard work doing your PR for your team full time, not meaning it is your job, just that it is a tough sales pitch, particularly to those that have known and grown up near/with spanners. Can't imagine how you manage that.
Known a couple of your fans that were absolute diamonds, no tatoos, didn't feel that they had anything to prove, just proper fans, so I know they exist, also know I would not trust one that I would not know not to push me on the tracks at London bridge given the chance. Good luck with your PR, it really is going to take some convincing, though it must be tough being a proper fan turning up somewhere like Carlisle with 100 fans and the locals waiting for your firm having heard the rep about you.
I must add that I saw little or no trouble last time we played you at home.
I don't resent anyone that has a deep-seeded hate for Millwall that goes back to the 70s/80s. They've probably got every right. But when someone goes "yeah, well when we played them 30 years ago, 520 people got stabbed and 94 OAPS had their zimmers nicked and melted into an arsenal of ground-to-air missle launchers, so just watch yourself next season", I can help but think "You f**king peanut"!
[cite]Posted By: Groucho78MFC[/cite]Its a sh*t gig, and the moneys rubbish....
I don't resent anyone that has a deep-seeded hate for Millwall that goes back to the 70s/80s. They've probably got every right. But when someone goes "yeah, well when we played them 30 years ago, 520 people got stabbed and 94 OAPS had their zimmers nicked and melted into an arsenal of ground-to-air missle launchers, so just watch yourself next season", I can help but think "You f**king peanut"!
When it's over, we'll all have a big cuddle!
Can we all come and sit next to you at the Den...?
Sadly, I think Len's go it about right. A high percentage of Millwall fans go for the violence and intimidation, maybe 10% - who knows? That the other 90% are pretty much diamond, very similar to us and the Nigels, is the sad bit because they will always get tarred with the bad Millwall image. It stops the club from growing. It means they lose about 5 million each year and are at serious risk of losing the new den to property developers.
Having the family i do full of fans from all areas of London (one Wolves fan lol hes happy atm) i have an open mind to away games (which i do every week) and enjoy them allot.
However i am not naieve and will have a guard up. Would never judge a football club on something i had read or seen on TV.
This is an interesting one. The evidence of the past is not very favourable to Millwall, lots of ground closurers, the Luton thing, the Birmingham thing, the lone Portsmouth fan thing, and lots of unreported unfortunate incidents people have experience of. Groucho say times have changed, but couches it in terms of cameras/police on top of things, keeping your head down, avoiding certain places and situations, common sense and it will be safe....does it really have to be this way? Why can't Charlton, and all opposition fans turn up in numbers, and in colours, with kids and women, singing on the way to and from the new Den and giving it good naturedly 'large'? Thats the experience of Millwall fans away isn't it? Certainly opposition fans can behave like that coming to the Valley. Absolutely yes, Charlton Athletic have some pretty nasty followers, but it seems that people with a kind of innate inclination towards expressing themselves nastily and violently who grow up around SE London gravitate towards Millwall...Millwall get it much more than Crystal Palace and Charlton. In that context Millwall lose money, because even though I feel (as I have done on many previous away days at Millwall) I can avoid trouble, it's not a game I want to take my son to just in case. You have to be lucky every time you cross the road, being unlucky just once can damage you for life, and thats what I feel about an away game at Millwall. I feel sad about all this, my dad used to alternate Millwall and Charlton, and I know some fantastic people who support Millwall (and Palace).Millwall sing 'no one likes us, we don't care', and this mantra is deep within their supporting DNA, in a crowd, with a drink, with youthful testosterone and mates to impress, with no one likes me I don't care echoing in the mind, there are a disproportionate number of Millwall fans who will damage other people to make a match at Millwall a very very unappealing prospect.
"Groucho say times have changed, but couches it in terms of cameras/police on top of things, keeping your head down, avoiding certain places and situations, common sense and it will be safe....does it really have to be this way?"
But thats true of a lot of places you go to these days. Thats not a Millwall problem - thats a football problem. Otherwise there would be little point in crowd segregation wouldn't there? Unfortunately, thats the way it is.
Comments
And my decision is "ILL BE THERE"
Thanks Guys
If RU1986 is honestly asking what it's going to be like, i'm trying to say (...the Millwall fan), go along, enjoy your day out. He might have to be a bit cautions in the same way you would if you went Cardiff, or Leeds, etc, but dont let it ruin the day. But if i was him and saw some of the stories you lot feed him, i wouldn't wanna f**king know!
Example...
My mate jon goes to Millwall 2 or 3 times a season due to working abroard he is a family guy but when he goes he turns into a pleb!
His excuse is "You have to give it when you go or you are seen as weak form the other fans!" He also says thats the coo with most other millwall fans its all about reputation!
Apart from Cardiff and Man yoo and maybe 2 others tell me a team that when they go away from home their rep gets there 2 days before they play there??
I think you are wearing blinkers my foe??
I have normal Millwall mates who go home and away and they tell me what goes on it has nothing to do with reading papers!!
We will see wont we?
My old man has some pretty nasty stories from the 70's 80's about you boys but as he/you say times have changed, and its not that way anymore. I have been to Cardiff and yes its not as bad as everyone makes out a bit intimadating but not that bad.
The Media don't help though do they mate.
Dont believe everything you read or see on TV Gentleman.
The Sun is full of S***t anyway never read that rubbish.
After the Birmingham match a few years back 900 were arrested the majority of whom were Millwall.
10% psychopath ratio compared to perhaps 1% at Charlton and other similar clubs.
I am not a trouble seeker but with nearly 1,000 psychos on the rampage there is a high probability of getting sucked in by virtue of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
The above summarises why my family won't be attending either fixture and I will be giving a lot of consideration as to whether I will be attending The Valley. i definitely won't go to Bermondsey.
thewolfboy - Thats a fair enough assesment i suppose. I just don't think that nasty rivialry is going to be there like we had 15/20 years ago because we haven't played each other in a competitive match in so long. A lot of the older folk will tell you what it was like back in the day but they're not going to risk their arthritis playing up by getting involved again. The younger folk dont really care because there's never been that constant rivialy, and nothing to feed off. It'll be like us vs Palace (...sorry to have to compare it to that. No one deserves that!). A lot of shouting - a lot of noise. But agro? I'm not all that sure.
Call me naive if you want, but thats my take on it.
Leeds? Man City? Stoke? Us too, unfortunately.
Your mate Jon sounds like a bit of a wally, with all due respect. I guess it's all about the circles you move in then. I've got enough mates, family, etc that go Millwall frequently, and they're no different there to what they are away from football. All that "being seen as weak" b*ll*cks, thats his lookout. But he's a bit of a plum if he actually believes that. Another one stuck in the 80s.
Even against Arsenal one year we got into their end and they couldn't get us out, but against Millwall we were invisible....
Only time I remember getting the better of them was in a Kent Cup final, can't remember the year, we gave them a good pasting that day...
Typical 'wall, crapping themselves at the first sign of trouble...
Why would one of your own (a Millwall fan) choose to take his son to his first football match as a 5 year old, opt for a game at The Valley rather than a game at your place?
And just out of interest you also had a game at home that day.
His words to me were, " I love my club, but could never forgive myself if he got hurt"
He hates Charlton with a passion, but could not take his own son to his own ground for fearing for his safety.
This by the way was 3 seasons ago, not the 1980s.
cheers
Ray
As for the away game, they don't play at their real ground anymore and it is all a bit too gay sounding round the blue (ooh get you) to go there.
Their club just seems to attract lower calibre life so to speak, good luck to em, they seem to want that.
I could hazard a guess and say it certainly doesnt sound like he's been to the Den in quite a while. But then, who am I to qestion anyones loyalty to the club. I'd certainly have no fear whatsoever in taking my kids there. Infact, I look forward to the day.
He wants to try taking them to Fulham maybe? Gets to see Premiership football there, eh?
Yep. Charlton fan.
Charlton scum? Or South East London scum?
Known a couple of your fans that were absolute diamonds, no tatoos, didn't feel that they had anything to prove, just proper fans, so I know they exist, also know I would not trust one that I would not know not to push me on the tracks at London bridge given the chance. Good luck with your PR, it really is going to take some convincing, though it must be tough being a proper fan turning up somewhere like Carlisle with 100 fans and the locals waiting for your firm having heard the rep about you.
I must add that I saw little or no trouble last time we played you at home.
I don't resent anyone that has a deep-seeded hate for Millwall that goes back to the 70s/80s. They've probably got every right. But when someone goes "yeah, well when we played them 30 years ago, 520 people got stabbed and 94 OAPS had their zimmers nicked and melted into an arsenal of ground-to-air missle launchers, so just watch yourself next season", I can help but think "You f**king peanut"!
When it's over, we'll all have a big cuddle!
However i am not naieve and will have a guard up. Would never judge a football club on something i had read or seen on TV.
They're not Palac so they can be that bad.
The evidence of the past is not very favourable to Millwall, lots of ground closurers, the Luton thing, the Birmingham thing, the lone Portsmouth fan thing, and lots of unreported unfortunate incidents people have experience of. Groucho say times have changed, but couches it in terms of cameras/police on top of things, keeping your head down, avoiding certain places and situations, common sense and it will be safe....does it really have to be this way? Why can't Charlton, and all opposition fans turn up in numbers, and in colours, with kids and women, singing on the way to and from the new Den and giving it good naturedly 'large'? Thats the experience of Millwall fans away isn't it? Certainly opposition fans can behave like that coming to the Valley.
Absolutely yes, Charlton Athletic have some pretty nasty followers, but it seems that people with a kind of innate inclination towards expressing themselves nastily and violently who grow up around SE London gravitate towards Millwall...Millwall get it much more than Crystal Palace and Charlton.
In that context Millwall lose money, because even though I feel (as I have done on many previous away days at Millwall) I can avoid trouble, it's not a game I want to take my son to just in case. You have to be lucky every time you cross the road, being unlucky just once can damage you for life, and thats what I feel about an away game at Millwall.
I feel sad about all this, my dad used to alternate Millwall and Charlton, and I know some fantastic people who support Millwall (and Palace).Millwall sing 'no one likes us, we don't care', and this mantra is deep within their supporting DNA, in a crowd, with a drink, with youthful testosterone and mates to impress, with no one likes me I don't care echoing in the mind, there are a disproportionate number of Millwall fans who will damage other people to make a match at Millwall a very very unappealing prospect.
But thats true of a lot of places you go to these days. Thats not a Millwall problem - thats a football problem. Otherwise there would be little point in crowd segregation wouldn't there? Unfortunately, thats the way it is.
It's true then, you're full of s&*^! ;-)