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Wagstaff or Sam?

edited August 2009 in General Charlton
After his little stint at the weekend im all for Wagstaff to start next sat. He showed pace, a urge to get forward, looked creative and (something that Sam has only done 3 times in the league) scored a goal! Don't get me wrong Sam has got alot of football in him. He has some good skill, pace etc but no finish. Obviously something Parky and the coaching staff need to work on. Perhaps Wagstaff was helped by the fact their defenders were knackerd and not at the top of their game but i think he is worth a chance. Would be nice to see another young academy product come through and do well and perhaps take the heat off of Jonjo (i think he needs it)
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Comments

  • I'd play it like Saturday - Sam as the main man Wagstaff for the cameo. Of course that could change if Wagstaff keeps improving.
  • I think we should keep wagstaff as a possible impact sub at the moment - needs a little more time to settle in, no need to rush him as we did last season.

    Keep Sam on for 70 mins, and then sub for Waggy.
  • We should keep the same starting 11 for as long as possible. Wagstaff did very well on Saturday, but we need to build him up slowly.
  • [cite]Posted By: Stig[/cite]I'd play it like Saturday - Sam as the main man Wagstaff for the cameo. Of course that could change if Wagstaff keeps improving.

    yep
  • Although he scored a good goal I think he may be a bit too light-weight at the moment to be starting. It's taken Lloyd this long (3 seasons) to come good and I don't think Wagstaff is better than him yet from what I've seen. Stick with Sam for now I reckon but he's a good option to have on the bench when Lloyd's legs go.
  • [cite]Posted By: Zinedine Bagheri[/cite]Although he scored a good goal I think he may be a bit too light-weight at the moment to be starting. It's taken Lloyd this long (3 seasons) to come good and I don't think Wagstaff is better than him yet from what I've seen. Stick with Sam for now I reckon but he's a good option to have on the bench when Lloyd's legs go.

    What he said.
  • Sam has been a lot better this season but the lack of end product on so many occasions remains just as frustrating as ever - however I agree that it's probably a bit too soon for Wagstaff.

    Sums it up to me that one of the better crosses of the second half on Saturday was from Burton when he found himself out on the wing, while Sam remains great at holding back from running at people and better at winning corners than delivering the killer ball.
  • If Sam is good at winning corners, then let's give him credit for that ....... and trust Parky recognises the value of set pieces like that and has the strategy to turn them into goals.
  • at least it is putting pressure on Sam to perform and if he doesn't then Waggy gets a chance, healthy squad competition in one area at least. Sam for me flatters to deceive, can't cross, can't beat a man and doesn't score.
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  • No, that's one of the very few times I've seen Wagstaff have a decent game. Too often he's struggled, hasn't been strong enough and his end product hasn't been any better than Sam's. Still got a long way to go but he did well.

    Keep him on the bench, bring him on every so often and hopefully he'll help Sam up his game.

    The talk that Sam can't cross is a myth, 9 assists last season in a struggling team, all sorts of strikers up front and he wasn't always a regular. He is frustrating, but his crossing isn't as bad as people say it is. He's not going to pick out perfect crosses from deep, but he can and does put in a few decent crosses.

    Don't expect Sam to be sprinting past the left back and swinging loads of crosses in, he's only usually got Burton in there who's not a real goalscorer, Shelvey who is tall but not great in the air, Bailey who will score the occasional header if he finds space, and occasionally Racon who's not great in the air either. If we had an Iwelumo and a Darren Bent up front, fair enough, but with the players we've got it must be a big reason why Sam doesn't get loads of crosses in.
  • Why should Sam cross the ball? Is Burton really going to win headers against CBs who are around 6/8 inches taller? If he did cross the ball we'd all be moaning at him for wasting good possession.
  • I'm pleased Wagstaff did well on Saturday, but I think 90mins would knock the stuffing out of him. Giving Sam licence to throw everything at the opposition for 70 minutes, and then Wagstaff for the final 20 as the opposition tires is a better bet.
  • [cite]Posted By: BlackForestReds[/cite]Why should Sam cross the ball? Is Burton really going to win headers against CBs who are around 6/8 inches taller? If he did cross the ball we'd all be moaning at him for wasting good possession.

    crosses don't have to be in the air, there is nothing in the rules that say you can't get to the byline, or near to it, and put a decent cross in on the floor
  • I think what sam has been doing these first four games is brilliant and helping us create more chances. Richardson and Sam have linked well down the right wing. Sam can offer a lot with his tricks and running into the area and putting balls across goal. As long as he puts balls along the floor across goal once he has beat the full back then he is doing his job. We also have the likes of Racon and Shelvey attacking the box for a pull back. There is no need to change it just yet. Wagstaff is not strong enough yet, but can definatley run at defences and once Sam has done the work for 75 minutes then we can bring him on. However he is only 19 and not quite ready. Although he looked like a different player then the one we had seen previously, after he got his goal. Sam is finally finding his feet and if he continues what he is doing then he should be in the starting line up for the next few games. Wagstaff can most likely put a better ball into the box then Sam but with our lack of height up front it would not be as effective as Sam running into the box beating a defender and hopefully creating a chance.
  • [cite]Posted By: Chirpy Red Jnr[/cite]I think what sam has been doing these first four games is brilliant and helping us create more chances. Richardson and Sam have linked well down the right wing. Sam can offer a lot with his tricks and running into the area and putting balls across goal. As long as he puts balls along the floor across goal once he has beat the full back then he is doing his job. We also have the likes of Racon and Shelvey attacking the box for a pull back. There is no need to change it just yet. Wagstaff is not strong enough yet, but can definatley run at defences and once Sam has done the work for 75 minutes then we can bring him on. However he is only 19 and not quite ready. Although he looked like a different player then the one we had seen previously, after he got his goal. Sam is finally finding his feet and if he continues what he is doing then he should be in the starting line up for the next few games. Wagstaff can most likely put a better ball into the box then Sam but with our lack of height up front it would not be as effective as Sam running into the box beating a defender and hopefully creating a chance.

    You have a lot more common sense and football knowledge than your old man!

    :-)
  • [cite]Posted By: LenGlover[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: Chirpy Red Jnr[/cite]I think what sam has been doing these first four games is brilliant and helping us create more chances. Richardson and Sam have linked well down the right wing. Sam can offer a lot with his tricks and running into the area and putting balls across goal. As long as he puts balls along the floor across goal once he has beat the full back then he is doing his job. We also have the likes of Racon and Shelvey attacking the box for a pull back. There is no need to change it just yet. Wagstaff is not strong enough yet, but can definatley run at defences and once Sam has done the work for 75 minutes then we can bring him on. However he is only 19 and not quite ready. Although he looked like a different player then the one we had seen previously, after he got his goal. Sam is finally finding his feet and if he continues what he is doing then he should be in the starting line up for the next few games. Wagstaff can most likely put a better ball into the box then Sam but with our lack of height up front it would not be as effective as Sam running into the box beating a defender and hopefully creating a chance.

    You have a lot more common sense and football knowledge than your old man!

    :-)

    Thats not hard he is only interested in the Cricket !
  • [cite]Posted By: LenGlover[/cite]You have a lot more common sense and football knowledge than your old man!

    I'll second that. Sam to go at it from the start for 60-75 minutes and then Waggy to takeover when the full back is cream-crackered!
  • I don't think Waggy has got 90 minutes in him yet although he and Sam are very different players. Sam is more of an outright winger, he can deliver crosses from dangerous areas. On Saturday that strategy was clearly not working so the introduction of Wagstaff with his inclination to hold and distribute the ball more, was the definition of an inspired substitution. He gave us more options through the middle and pulled the Walsall defence more forward, opening up the kind of space he exploited for his goal.

    Like I say, he's a bit lightweight at the moment, he wasn't born with the kind of physique Shelvey was, so it might take him a season or two to get up to the kind of fitness required. Until then, I don't see a problem starting with Sam and keeping Waggy as a back up.
  • [cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: BlackForestReds[/cite]Why should Sam cross the ball? Is Burton really going to win headers against CBs who are around 6/8 inches taller? If he did cross the ball we'd all be moaning at him for wasting good possession.

    crosses don't have to be in the air, there is nothing in the rules that say you can't get to the byline, or near to it, and put a decent cross in on the floor

    Yeah, but considerably more likely to get cut out.
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  • That's a bluddy good post, Chirpy Red Jnr.

    I don't know how old you are, but you've got a good grasp of how the game is played - better than some posters on here, lol
    *ducks for cover*

    ;o)
  • It is soo frustrating watching Sam knowing that he's a can cross won't cross player. But like Chirpy red jnr says, Sam has improved his work-rate for the team no end. He ain't no sideline hugging winger, but he covers his fb excellently and he pivots a pacey fb beautifully. Who's lead assists? Shelvey and Richardson, I'd doubt if Richardson would be getting into the box so well without Sam pre-occupying people.

    It would be nice to see Sam cross when he get's space, which all too often he just turns defenders again, but as someone said it's not like he has loads to aim in the box. If he is narrow and getting close to Burton, allowing Richardson to overlap, we've pretty much got the perfect player for this 4-5-1 formation thingamy. Sam's a hell of lot more important than most people think, and a MASSIVE mistake last season was having him in the 11 and we'd draw a few matches then we'd lose and he was dropped then we'd bloody well lose the next few matches. Keep him in, he does a lot for the team.

    Great to see Waggy showing energy and verve. That is something we lacked last year the option to introduce effective pace. Let's hope he becomes that this season.
  • Glad to see Sam getting the recognition he deserves. If he can grab himself a couple of goals and a big boost of confidence, I think he could very well terrify any left back in the league.
  • [quote][cite]Posted By: bingaddick[/cite][quote][cite]Posted By: LenGlover[/cite]You have a lot more common sense and football knowledge than your old man!
    [/quote]

    I'll second that. Sam to go at it from the start for 60-75 minutes and then Waggy to takeover when the full back is cream-crackered![/quote]

    That's the ticket - indeed I'd let it be known to Sam up front not to expect much more than an hour, - but make it clear that he is to run like fury for the whole of that time with the deliberate aim of knackering the full back.
  • Agree with most others here; bring Waggy on gently instead of plunging him in too early and destroying his confidence (surely we never had a manager who'd do a thing like that!!). Besides, Sam does a lot of work pressing which helps keep his full back deep, and regularly picks opponents' pockets without necessarily crunching into tackles.
  • You shouldn't change a winning team. Sam is building his confidence it would be a knock back to drop him. So no change.
  • [cite]Posted By: ColinTat[/cite]It is soo frustrating watching Sam knowing that he's a can cross won't cross player. But like Chirpy red jnr says, Sam has improved his work-rate for the team no end. He ain't no sideline hugging winger, but he covers his fb excellently and he pivots a pacey fb beautifully. Who's lead assists? Shelvey and Richardson, I'd doubt if Richardson would be getting into the box so well without Sam pre-occupying people.

    It would be nice to see Sam cross when he get's space, which all too often he just turns defenders again, but as someone said it's not like he has loads to aim in the box. If he is narrow and getting close to Burton, allowing Richardson to overlap, we've pretty much got the perfect player for this 4-5-1 formation thingamy. Sam's a hell of lot more important than most people think, and a MASSIVE mistake last season was having him in the 11 and we'd draw a few matches then we'd lose and he was dropped then we'd bloody well lose the next few matches. Keep him in, he does a lot for the team.

    Great to see Waggy showing energy and verve. That is something we lacked last year the option to introduce effective pace. Let's hope he becomes that this season.

    Absolutely and his crossing ability is much understated as well - not Beckham-esque but certainly not terrible. Maybe needs to work a bit on his decision making sometimes but he's improving. He played 3 or 4 lovely little through balls in behind the Wycombe full back too for Richardson and Racon to run onto. He a vlauable asset because we can give him the ball and he'll keep. The Wallsall fan's report of Saturdays game also picked him out as our most threatening player and he 'll be marked out of some games, but that alone will make space for others.
  • Interesting little piece on Wagstaff in the programme.

    Interview with him during which he said that after the Walsall game (when he had come on and scored) Parkinson said a few words in the dressing room.

    When PP mentioned Wagstaff all the other players broke into a round of applause.

    Wagstaff said what a lift that was.

    I thought that is shows something very positive about the squad and its attitudes.
  • [cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]Interesting little piece on Wagstaff in the programme.

    Interview with him during which he said that after the Walsall game (when he had come on and scored) Parkinson said a few words in the dressing room.

    When PP mentioned Wagstaff all the other players broke into a round of applause.

    Wagstaff said what a lift that was.

    I thought that is shows something very positive about the squad and its attitudes.

    You can see the team spirit is high right now, everyone looks happy and there are smiles and jokes all round when we score and everyone is covering for others mistakes.

    Incidently, anyone have a clue what Lloyd's weird armpit scratching dance is all about?
  • SE7SE7
    edited September 2009
    Said in the post match interview on Sky that it is from his favourite song at the moment.
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