se9addick, that is true but maybe not the extent or with the willingness of the French and Dutch. We were never occupied so we dont know. Check out the ''it happened here'' for one view of how brits would have acted.
For an example of brave resistnce see the Danes. The king wore a yellow star as did many others when jewish danes were ordered to do so and nearly all the dnnish jews escaped from the nazis.
I went to Bloomfield in Plum Lane and we had to do our cross country runs up and down it every Friday morning in some of the most atrocious weather you could image....
Actually it was Churchill's order not only to sink the French fleet at Mers-el-Kebir but to forcibly board and take over those French ships that were in British ports without any warning in a little-known episode, provoked Vichy France into breaking off diplomatic relations.
............
That incident is supposed to have done more to persuade the Americans that the British were serious and could stand up to Hitler than anything else Churchill said or did. The US Ambassador to the UK at the time was Joe Kennedy, father of John, Robert and Teddy Kennedy, he kept sending reports back to Roosevelt suggesting that giving aid to us was a waste of resources as we were going to get inavded at any moment.
Churchill did not trust the French navy not to side with the Germans, that's why he ordered the attack. This attack is stark contrast to the incident in Toulon two years later when the French sank nearly forty of their own ships to prevent them falling into German hands....
Spoke to my mother this evening. 70th anniversary of her first date with my father. They came out of the cinema into the pitch balck of a "practice" blackout on the eve of war.
[cite]Posted By: BlackForestReds[/cite]Actually it was Churchill's order not only to sink the French fleet at Mers-el-Kebir but to forcibly board and take over those French ships that were in British ports without any warning in a little-known episode, provoked Vichy France into breaking off diplomatic relations.
............
That incident is supposed to have done more to persuade the Americans that the British were serious and could stand up to Hitler than anything else Churchill said or did. The US Ambassador to the UK at the time was Joe Kennedy, father of John, Robert and Teddy Kennedy, he kept sending reports back to Roosevelt suggesting that giving aid to us was a waste of resources as we were going to get inavded at any moment.
I recall reading a fascinating book titled "A man called intrepid" about a Bill Stephenson who was Churchill's special envoy to Roosevelt. I remember telling of an occasion when he was in the Oval Room and Churchill phoned about Joseph Kennedy. While he was on the phone Roosevelt drew his finger across his throat in a Sweeney Todd motion. Joseph Kennedy was known to have nazi sympathies and Roosevelt kept him in London until it was too late for him to run for president in 1940, then called him back.
On a seperate issue, when we moved into our house on Shootershill we found in the loft, a partially rotted gas mask, the instructions of air raid evacuation which we have framed and now display in our lounge, some sheet music from the war era and a 10 pack of weights cigarettes.
[cite]Posted By: Oggy Red[/cite]My dear old Mum tells me her stories about being bombed out of her home in Victoria Dock Road, Tidal Basin - just accross the River Thames from The Valley.
The first night of what became known as the Battle of Britain, 7th September 1940, the Luftwaffe bombers came over and set fire to the Docks.
The next day was a warm sunny Saturday. - and my Nan decided to cook the Sunday joint in case the sirens went off again on the Sunday. But at 5 o'clock the air raid sirens wailed, she turned the gas cooker off and took her 3 little girls straight down into the Anderson shelter in the backyard ....... but my Grandad wasn't home from work.
She tells me about sitting in the musty shelter barely daring to breathe, the drone of the planes overhead and the whistling and crump of bombs falling all around them. Suddenly the door of the shelter flung open, Grandad just got in, and in a cloud of dust and noise the house came down.
Normally he would have brought his bike through the hallway of the terraced house to the little shed in the backyard. But this time, he just got through the front door, left the bike in the hall and ran for the shelter. If he'd hesitated .......
Now homeless, my Mum's family spent 3 nights sheltering in the local South Hallsville Road school with many many others who had lost everything. Then they found a room in a house in North London.
They were so lucky. That same night, there was a direct hit on that school. 400 people were killed.
Including their friends and so many local people they knew.
Jeeezus Oggster that is a terific yet sad story just a glimpse of what it was like during one of the worst periods of our history,
i have hundreds of photos of my grandad and nan their brothers and sisters all all over the world serving in the military during this time and i am always amazed at how their faces look, Calm, happy.
in a couple of my nan and her mum they are serious and i was told that it was because the road had just been bombed and that their house was one of 3 left standing in the street.
you can not even begin to imagine.
Cracking programme last night on ITV "Outbreak" some real harrowing stories of how people felt across the globe as the broadcasts went out on radio from the PM and the King here. and the top honchos in France, Germany America, jamaica, Australia
In those days the Tidal Basin/Canning Town/Silvertown area (just a stone's throw across the river from The Valley, remember) was totally devastated by the bombing raids that September, and the really strong community of those days virtually wiped out.
Thousands of civilians, ordinary people like you and me, were killed.
Most of the survivors lost not only their homes, but close members of their families, their friends, everything - but still they carried on unbowed. Everybody mucked in and helped each other.
Many of us will have family connections to those survivors. If we sit quietly and think about it, only by fortune has our family line survived ....... one more stray bomb, and we ourselves may never have been born.
It makes me count my blessings.
And that was only on the Home Front, the war on civilians .........
This is a really interesting thread, with some great family stories. I guess most of us, especially those who's families lived in the South East can come up with moments which could have been disasterous.
My mother & family lived in Farnborough in a road which abutted the bypass (A21). During the Battle of Britain, a German Bomber, presumably jettisoning it's bombs after attempting to attack Biggin Hill Fighter Station, dropped a stick of bombs on the A21, one fell on the road about opposite to where the old Little Chef restaurant (now Frank and Bennys?). My mum and her parents had just managed to get into their Anderson shelter but my uncle was lagging behind, fortunately the blast blew him into the shelter. None of them were injured bar a few cuts and bruises, the house was damaged but habitable.
My Grandfather drove the 47 Bus from Farnborough via Bromley Bus Garage to Shoreditch. The route is still going but I think it starts at Catford Garage now. The route goes through Lewisham and the turns towards Deptford at Loampit Vale, it goes right through the heart of the south of the river Docklands and Bermondsay and emerges at Tooley Street by London Bridge Station, crosses the Thames at London Bridge, goes through the City and finishes in Shoreditch. Every day and some nights (except on his rest days), my Grandfather drove his Bus through the bomb ravaged streets, often having to turn back, go around obstacles, avoid fires etc to get people to and from their homes. He had survived a "blighty" wound at Passchendaele in WWI and somehow he survived this. Many LT employees weren't so lucky.
My father was in the RAF. He volunteered in 1943, eventually made Aircrew and was out in the Far East at the end of the war. He had a number of near misses including being called to a meeting with the CO on a day he was meant to be flying. His crew took off without him and the plane crashed and all were killed!
Those of us who came after and are here because of the sacrifices they made on all our behalfs and we should never forget them.
One point about France. I agree with all that has been said about their surrender to a vastly better organised and deadly force of the German Army and then the role played by The Vichy Government lead by Marshall Petain.
I would just add a rider that what France didn't have was
a) a defensive strategy which could properly defend their land border against a mobile high tech army.
b) Generals (with the possible exception of the realitively junior DeGaulle), who understood modern warfare
c) a polictical figure like Winston Churchill figure who could galvanise them
I wonder what would have been our fate, had this Anglo-American warrior leader not come to power in our hour of need? There were Nazi sympathisers in the British establishment leading right up to the former King, the Duke of Windsor.
We often, me included, take the moral high ground about our steadfast defence and refusal to surrender, in contrast to the French and their disasterous capitulation. All I would say is there but for the grace of god and a 65 year old cantankerous son of a Duke go we!!
[cite]Posted By: BlackForestReds[/cite]And most importantly 20 miles or so of water between the UK and the European mainland, without which we would have been invaded.
Hitlers Stealth Bomber on Discovery last night and when you see how close they were to putting together a fleet of these bombers (which incidently) worked as good as the american version now what 40 years before the black bat like plane that you see now
we were close and very lucky that on the 2nd month of test flying it had an engine failure and the only pilot at the time who knew how to fly them was killed upon impact.
That we were not smashed to pieces during the battle of britain because this thing was faster than anything at the time more capable in manouvers and would not have been picked up by our Radar until 8miles off the coast giving only 2mins to react .
There are some excellent programmes for those that want their children to understand and remember, Go through your Discovery channels sky plus them and show your kids at a better time (not 1030pm bloody discovery)
I have loads on Sky plus and me and NLJR watch them on a free Sunday afternoon interesting and educational if the curriculam wont do it, then it is down to you as parents
Henry jnr has done a lot at School about WWII as it is part of the national curriculum and rightly so.
He is fascinated by evacuation and the stories from 3 of his 4 grandparents. The 4th (my dad) was 13 so threw his sarnies away and went home instead. Was fire watching at 14 and digging out unexploded bombs and mines at 17 with the Royal Engineers.
I have loads on Sky plus and me and NLJR watch them on a free Sunday afternoon interesting and educational if the curriculam wont do it, then it is down to you as parents
Good point, NLA. It's down to us as parents to take the initiative where necessary.
[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]Henry jnr has done a lot at School about WWII as it is part of the national curriculum and rightly so.
He is fascinated by evacuation and the stories from 3 of his 4 grandparents. The 4th (my dad) was 13 so threw his sarnies away and went home instead. Was fire watching at 14 and digging out unexploded bombs and mines at 17 with the Royal Engineers.
I think all kids are Henners at a certain age, my joe is constantly playiong with my old action men or making a camp in the garden with his machine guns and camoflage paint on his head, with his great grandads medals pinned to his shirt
Fortunately as with WWI there is a fair body of literature and TV documentaries on the subject, so there is plenty of information out there on the subject and hopefully little danger of it slipping out of the public consciousness.
What I hope wont get lost are the personal family stories that get passed down from generation to generation about what it was really like to live through the Blitz or participate in a battle or take part in say D-Day.
[cite]Posted By: BlackForestReds[/cite]Fortunately as with WWI there is a fair body of literature and TV documentaries on the subject, so there is plenty of information out there on the subject and hopefully little danger of it slipping out of the public consciousness.
What I hope wont get lost are the personal family stories that get passed down from generation to generation about what it was really like to live through the Blitz or participate in a battle or take part in say D-Day.
I have made a sort of Journal with everything i have been told and pictures, Newspaper clippings and things from the regiment all my family served under, Not very big or long but enough there for me to pass on and for NLJR/S to saviour and remember, our ancesters were a brave old bunch and i dont think that any of us could do what was done at home now as they did.
My dad served in the RAF in North Africa and Italy. He was also seconded to the Aussie air force and the Yugoslav air force. One night our troups turned up inturned all the Yugosavs officers and thier places where taken by Tito loyalists (the former being royalist).
Two uncles where at Dunkirk (served in RA)and another served with the Colstream Guards for the whole duration.
[cite]Posted By: BlackForestReds[/cite]Fortunately as with WWI there is a fair body of literature and TV documentaries on the subject, so there is plenty of information out there on the subject and hopefully little danger of it slipping out of the public consciousness.
What I hope wont get lost are the personal family stories that get passed down from generation to generation about what it was really like to live through the Blitz or participate in a battle or take part in say D-Day.
I have made a sort of Journal with everything i have been told and pictures, Newspaper clippings and things from the regiment all my family served under, Not very big or long but enough there for me to pass on and for NLJR/S to saviour and remember, our ancesters were a brave old bunch and i dont think that any of us could do what was done at home now as they did.
Mad mad times of adversity and real hardship
That's a great idea, NLA.
Even the little kids at the outbreak of war old enough to remember - are now all well into their seventies .......
Any surviving people who were already adults during the war are all approaching their nineties or more.
We should talk to them - and write down their own personal stories while we still have the chance.
These are our own family experiences and future generations will be grateful.
Otherwise they will die out with our relatives ...... and be forgotten.
Comments
For an example of brave resistnce see the Danes. The king wore a yellow star as did many others when jewish danes were ordered to do so and nearly all the dnnish jews escaped from the nazis.
I went to Bloomfield in Plum Lane and we had to do our cross country runs up and down it every Friday morning in some of the most atrocious weather you could image....
............
That incident is supposed to have done more to persuade the Americans that the British were serious and could stand up to Hitler than anything else Churchill said or did. The US Ambassador to the UK at the time was Joe Kennedy, father of John, Robert and Teddy Kennedy, he kept sending reports back to Roosevelt suggesting that giving aid to us was a waste of resources as we were going to get inavded at any moment.
I recall reading a fascinating book titled "A man called intrepid" about a Bill Stephenson who was Churchill's special envoy to Roosevelt. I remember telling of an occasion when he was in the Oval Room and Churchill phoned about Joseph Kennedy. While he was on the phone Roosevelt drew his finger across his throat in a Sweeney Todd motion. Joseph Kennedy was known to have nazi sympathies and Roosevelt kept him in London until it was too late for him to run for president in 1940, then called him back.
Never ever again please.... War is a pointless circle.
Jeeezus Oggster that is a terific yet sad story just a glimpse of what it was like during one of the worst periods of our history,
i have hundreds of photos of my grandad and nan their brothers and sisters all all over the world serving in the military during this time and i am always amazed at how their faces look, Calm, happy.
in a couple of my nan and her mum they are serious and i was told that it was because the road had just been bombed and that their house was one of 3 left standing in the street.
you can not even begin to imagine.
Cracking programme last night on ITV "Outbreak" some real harrowing stories of how people felt across the globe as the broadcasts went out on radio from the PM and the King here. and the top honchos in France, Germany America, jamaica, Australia
i was absolutely mesmerised by it all
In those days the Tidal Basin/Canning Town/Silvertown area (just a stone's throw across the river from The Valley, remember) was totally devastated by the bombing raids that September, and the really strong community of those days virtually wiped out.
Thousands of civilians, ordinary people like you and me, were killed.
Most of the survivors lost not only their homes, but close members of their families, their friends, everything - but still they carried on unbowed. Everybody mucked in and helped each other.
Many of us will have family connections to those survivors. If we sit quietly and think about it, only by fortune has our family line survived ....... one more stray bomb, and we ourselves may never have been born.
It makes me count my blessings.
And that was only on the Home Front, the war on civilians .........
My mother & family lived in Farnborough in a road which abutted the bypass (A21). During the Battle of Britain, a German Bomber, presumably jettisoning it's bombs after attempting to attack Biggin Hill Fighter Station, dropped a stick of bombs on the A21, one fell on the road about opposite to where the old Little Chef restaurant (now Frank and Bennys?). My mum and her parents had just managed to get into their Anderson shelter but my uncle was lagging behind, fortunately the blast blew him into the shelter. None of them were injured bar a few cuts and bruises, the house was damaged but habitable.
My Grandfather drove the 47 Bus from Farnborough via Bromley Bus Garage to Shoreditch. The route is still going but I think it starts at Catford Garage now. The route goes through Lewisham and the turns towards Deptford at Loampit Vale, it goes right through the heart of the south of the river Docklands and Bermondsay and emerges at Tooley Street by London Bridge Station, crosses the Thames at London Bridge, goes through the City and finishes in Shoreditch. Every day and some nights (except on his rest days), my Grandfather drove his Bus through the bomb ravaged streets, often having to turn back, go around obstacles, avoid fires etc to get people to and from their homes. He had survived a "blighty" wound at Passchendaele in WWI and somehow he survived this. Many LT employees weren't so lucky.
My father was in the RAF. He volunteered in 1943, eventually made Aircrew and was out in the Far East at the end of the war. He had a number of near misses including being called to a meeting with the CO on a day he was meant to be flying. His crew took off without him and the plane crashed and all were killed!
Those of us who came after and are here because of the sacrifices they made on all our behalfs and we should never forget them.
Great stories, Bing.
I would just add a rider that what France didn't have was
a) a defensive strategy which could properly defend their land border against a mobile high tech army.
b) Generals (with the possible exception of the realitively junior DeGaulle), who understood modern warfare
c) a polictical figure like Winston Churchill figure who could galvanise them
I wonder what would have been our fate, had this Anglo-American warrior leader not come to power in our hour of need? There were Nazi sympathisers in the British establishment leading right up to the former King, the Duke of Windsor.
We often, me included, take the moral high ground about our steadfast defence and refusal to surrender, in contrast to the French and their disasterous capitulation. All I would say is there but for the grace of god and a 65 year old cantankerous son of a Duke go we!!
.........
And most importantly 20 miles or so of water between the UK and the European mainland, without which we would have been invaded.
Yes, that as well!
Hitlers Stealth Bomber on Discovery last night and when you see how close they were to putting together a fleet of these bombers (which incidently) worked as good as the american version now what 40 years before the black bat like plane that you see now
we were close and very lucky that on the 2nd month of test flying it had an engine failure and the only pilot at the time who knew how to fly them was killed upon impact.
That we were not smashed to pieces during the battle of britain because this thing was faster than anything at the time more capable in manouvers and would not have been picked up by our Radar until 8miles off the coast giving only 2mins to react .
There are some excellent programmes for those that want their children to understand and remember, Go through your Discovery channels sky plus them and show your kids at a better time (not 1030pm bloody discovery)
I have loads on Sky plus and me and NLJR watch them on a free Sunday afternoon interesting and educational if the curriculam wont do it, then it is down to you as parents
He is fascinated by evacuation and the stories from 3 of his 4 grandparents. The 4th (my dad) was 13 so threw his sarnies away and went home instead. Was fire watching at 14 and digging out unexploded bombs and mines at 17 with the Royal Engineers.
Good point, NLA. It's down to us as parents to take the initiative where necessary.
I think all kids are Henners at a certain age, my joe is constantly playiong with my old action men or making a camp in the garden with his machine guns and camoflage paint on his head, with his great grandads medals pinned to his shirt
What I hope wont get lost are the personal family stories that get passed down from generation to generation about what it was really like to live through the Blitz or participate in a battle or take part in say D-Day.
I have made a sort of Journal with everything i have been told and pictures, Newspaper clippings and things from the regiment all my family served under, Not very big or long but enough there for me to pass on and for NLJR/S to saviour and remember, our ancesters were a brave old bunch and i dont think that any of us could do what was done at home now as they did.
Mad mad times of adversity and real hardship
Two uncles where at Dunkirk (served in RA)and another served with the Colstream Guards for the whole duration.
That's a great idea, NLA.
Even the little kids at the outbreak of war old enough to remember - are now all well into their seventies .......
Any surviving people who were already adults during the war are all approaching their nineties or more.
We should talk to them - and write down their own personal stories while we still have the chance.
These are our own family experiences and future generations will be grateful.
Otherwise they will die out with our relatives ...... and be forgotten.
Topic for history this year will be World War 2. They will be building an air raid shelter among other things.
Perhaps they had pilots that had been drinking .... ?
I think she meant Heinkel ....(!)
I'm sure I've seen pictures of German PoWs cleaning the Valley up, not sure if it was due to bomb damage though.....
Soccer at War - Jack Rollin
Mostly stats but lots about Charlton
Gas Masks for Goal Posts (football in Britain in the Second World War) - Anton Rippon.
More of a narrative of the effects of war on football but again lots of Charlton including the time we resigned from the Football League in protest.
Also The Forgotten FA Cup (the Competition of 1945-46) Jack Rollin and Tony Brown
Obviously mentions Charlton a great deal
Hadn't heard of this one before and just got a copy ... excellent!