[cite]Posted By: Chirpy Red[/cite]Man Utd's debt is more like £700m.
Well where do you get that from...more than Real Madrid then...somehow I don't think so?
It's easy to band these figures around dished out by the insatiable and rumour mongering media scrum....but where are the hard facts and what is the 'real debt' once all their assets are taken into consideration as well as shareholdings etc etc...which is in fact the more accurate figure.
Who 'exactly' are they 'supposedly' in debt to to the tune of £700,000,000?
[quote][cite]Posted By: AFKABartram[/cite]Sad to see Southend in such a state at the moment.
They face a huge 24 hours as unless a £660k tax bill is not settled tomorrow, they will face a winding-up order. They are currently under a transfer embargo, are short of players and have been unable to extend the loan of George Friend from Wolves due to the outstanding tax bill. I understand their bench on Saturday was made up with a couple of 16yr olds.
All seems a bit of a mess, and a shame to see a club i’ve always looked favourably on in trouble. Hope they can get it all sorted.[/quote]
[cite]Posted By: AFKABartram[/cite]Sad to see Southend in such a state at the moment.
They face a huge 24 hours as unless a £660k tax bill is not settled tomorrow, they will face a winding-up order. They are currently under a transfer embargo, are short of players and have been unable to extend the loan of George Friend from Wolves due to the outstanding tax bill. I understand their bench on Saturday was made up with a couple of 16yr olds.
All seems a bit of a mess, and a shame to see a club i’ve always looked favourably on in trouble. Hope they can get it all sorted.
I wish it was Palace!
I don't. Wouldn't shed too many tears if it were one of the big boys but even then I don't really want any club to go under. However much they may have brought it on themselves, for instance by not paying their tax bill of all things, it's the supporters who'll suffer in the end.
That Telegraph article re Man Utd was about as clear as mud to the average man in the street....which when it comes to 'high finance matters' is me down to a tee.
For United's debt you can look at their published accounts or read it in just about any good or bad journalist's article on the subject. Debt is about 5% off the regularly quoted ammount of £700 million. And some of it is not secured against any assets the club has, and that's why they've had huge interest charges. But United keep turning a profit, a leveraged buyout it may have been but one that is still viable. Can't see how you can punish a company that pays it's taxes and meets it's obligations:
From what I hear Southend have the OK for a new ground, and will make a packet on Roots Hall. But...they've not been able to borrow the money to set the ball rolling and now everything is looking bad to say the least. Hope it works out for them in the end.
Prem clubs giving lower league clubs 10% of revenue sounds a good idea and would no doubt save clubs...until they started to spend all that and more as well. Trouble is there are just too many poorly run clubs out there paying more than they can afford. The only thing you could do is have a strictly one off 10% payment split equally with league clubs told to only use it to pay off debt (unless they have none then they can use it how they like). This would be a one off not to be repeated.
As for southend, shame, I like them...I also like Lee Barnard!
I reckon the 10% should it ever happen(!) would be better put into a special rescue pot, administered only by the Football League - and only used as a last resort at their discretion, without any guarantees.
Applying clubs would have to prove that they acted in a reasonable and responsible way but were victim of circumstance, rather than their own wanton and reckless spending.
There shouldn't necessarily be a safety net available to clubs who are financially reckless.
A real shame - I know a few of their fans and they have not been happy for a few years now with how the club was being run. Can't say I particularly like or dislike them but it's horrible that there seems to be a fair few football teams on the precipice at the moment!!
As an aside my old manager from district football was an Addick but used to constantly bang on about a couple of Shrimpers players - a chap called Powell and two attackers called Ansah and Otto! (He had a pretty good eye for talent!).
Unfortunate as I have loved the away games there going back to the Friday evening "battles" in the seventies. However why have Southend buit up a 2million tax debt? How many years of tax is that unpaid. If they were running at a loss then surely as a limited company there would be no corporation tax? So they have been spending the tax mans money for years probably.
The High Court has granted Southend a reprieve after the League One club vowed to clear their £2.135 million tax debt by Friday.
Southend face the prospect of being placed into administration and a winding-up order due to their debt to HM Revenue and Customs, but the case has been adjourned after Mr Justice Warren was informed the club had offered to pay up by Friday.
HMRC did not oppose an adjournment until next Monday, by which time it would be known whether the sum had been paid in full.
The judge heard that HMRC originally presented a winding-up petition for a tax bill of £690,000, but last week, after it became clear that a far greater debt was owed, it changed tack and presented an application to have the club company put into administration.
If the money is paid in full, both sets of legal proceedings will be dismissed on Monday.
The club confirmed last night that they had turned down the offer of investment from an unnamed consortium.
United are currently 10th in League One, but would be deducted 10 points if they were placed into administration, and that would see them drop into the relegation zone.
Not my fault they have spunked the money that should have gone in the "taxman" jar on ridiculously high wages for the level and type of business they are running.
£2million in tax is a shit load for a business that size and it smacks of incompetence. Should we, the taxpayers, pay for that? We've already done it for the banks, so shall we just whack up income tax to 95p in the pound so we can bail out every fuckwit businessman who couldn't run a tap?
EDIT : I know, I'm all heart, but I've never liked Southend - so fuck em!
[cite]Posted By: Off_it[/cite]I have to pay my taxes, so why shouldn't they?
Not my fault they have spunked the money that should have gone in the "taxman" jar on ridiculously high wages for the level and type of business they are running.
£2million in tax is a shit load for a business that size and it smacks of incompetence. Should we, the taxpayers, pay for that? We've already done it for the banks, so shall we just whack up income tax to 95p in the pound so we can bail out every fuckwit businessman who couldn't run a tap?
EDIT : I know, I'm all hear, but I've never liked Southend - so fuck em!
I'm glad they are safe but this has happened so many times now it's beyond a joke. Ron Martin needs to go away and let someone sensible run that club
HMRC continually has to put up with cynical pisstaking business owners withholding legitimate everyday tax & VAT liabilities until the very last minute of HMRC's recovery procedure. Football clubs are notoriously bad at just this, EFL, FA, EPL, et al sit by and ignore this deliberate rule breaking. There should be established sanctions in football for clubs which are mismanaged this way. If Southend were able to pay off HMRC this week, why not last week, last month or FFS when the tax was actually due? It takes months before HMRC gets to seeking a winding up action. You and I as tax payers are bearing the costs of the process and admin time which is always totally wasted by this malfeasance. That money is literally taken out of your pockets for no good reason whatever. These liabilities don't spring up out of nowhere, they are part and parcel of everyday business activity. In the event that an exceptional circumstance makes paying these bills a temporary problem, contacting HMRC to inform them will always prevent winding up procedures even starting. Conduct that brings clubs like Southend to their situation this week is essentially criminal. If they can't actually afford it then they're already bust and should be wound up, magicking up the funds at the last minute is shady however you look at it.
Comments
Well where do you get that from...more than Real Madrid then...somehow I don't think so?
It's easy to band these figures around dished out by the insatiable and rumour mongering media scrum....but where are the hard facts and what is the 'real debt' once all their assets are taken into consideration as well as shareholdings etc etc...which is in fact the more accurate figure.
Who 'exactly' are they 'supposedly' in debt to to the tune of £700,000,000?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/manutd/5130064/Manchester-United-debt-soars-to-700m-despite-record-season.html
We should have a whip round for them.
BBC news
Currently it is illegal, but the rules may change.
The alternative will be that clubs like Southend will go out of business permanently.
They face a huge 24 hours as unless a £660k tax bill is not settled tomorrow, they will face a winding-up order. They are currently under a transfer embargo, are short of players and have been unable to extend the loan of George Friend from Wolves due to the outstanding tax bill. I understand their bench on Saturday was made up with a couple of 16yr olds.
All seems a bit of a mess, and a shame to see a club i’ve always looked favourably on in trouble. Hope they can get it all sorted.[/quote]
I wish it was Palace!
I don't. Wouldn't shed too many tears if it were one of the big boys but even then I don't really want any club to go under. However much they may have brought it on themselves, for instance by not paying their tax bill of all things, it's the supporters who'll suffer in the end.
I know ConstaNever
What goes around, comes around. Would you wish it on Charlton ....?
Nope.
So I don't wish it on any club. Not even Palace.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2009/mar/25/manchester-united-debt-glazers-david-conn
As for southend, shame, I like them...I also like Lee Barnard!
Applying clubs would have to prove that they acted in a reasonable and responsible way but were victim of circumstance, rather than their own wanton and reckless spending.
There shouldn't necessarily be a safety net available to clubs who are financially reckless.
As an aside my old manager from district football was an Addick but used to constantly bang on about a couple of Shrimpers players - a chap called Powell and two attackers called Ansah and Otto! (He had a pretty good eye for talent!).
Hope it all works out for them
Southend face the prospect of being placed into administration and a winding-up order due to their debt to HM Revenue and Customs, but the case has been adjourned after Mr Justice Warren was informed the club had offered to pay up by Friday.
HMRC did not oppose an adjournment until next Monday, by which time it would be known whether the sum had been paid in full.
The judge heard that HMRC originally presented a winding-up petition for a tax bill of £690,000, but last week, after it became clear that a far greater debt was owed, it changed tack and presented an application to have the club company put into administration.
If the money is paid in full, both sets of legal proceedings will be dismissed on Monday.
The club confirmed last night that they had turned down the offer of investment from an unnamed consortium.
United are currently 10th in League One, but would be deducted 10 points if they were placed into administration, and that would see them drop into the relegation zone.
Not my fault they have spunked the money that should have gone in the "taxman" jar on ridiculously high wages for the level and type of business they are running.
£2million in tax is a shit load for a business that size and it smacks of incompetence. Should we, the taxpayers, pay for that? We've already done it for the banks, so shall we just whack up income tax to 95p in the pound so we can bail out every fuckwit businessman who couldn't run a tap?
EDIT : I know, I'm all heart, but I've never liked Southend - so fuck em!
If Southend were able to pay off HMRC this week, why not last week, last month or FFS when the tax was actually due? It takes months before HMRC gets to seeking a winding up action.
You and I as tax payers are bearing the costs of the process and admin time which is always totally wasted by this malfeasance. That money is literally taken out of your pockets for no good reason whatever.
These liabilities don't spring up out of nowhere, they are part and parcel of everyday business activity. In the event that an exceptional circumstance makes paying these bills a temporary problem, contacting HMRC to inform them will always prevent winding up procedures even starting.
Conduct that brings clubs like Southend to their situation this week is essentially criminal. If they can't actually afford it then they're already bust and should be wound up, magicking up the funds at the last minute is shady however you look at it.