[cite]Posted By: uncle[/cite]
Its not a sensitive subject for me and my reaction wasn't over the top,you wrote something that you clearly had no facts on. Are you telling me that you know where he was told to play and what to do??? No i guess you wasn't. So if Parky had told him to keep cutting in all the time would HE have been out of position??? No i think not, he might not have stayed hugging the touchline like some would want but you cant say HE was out of position if you dont know what was said to him. Wether he was played out of position or asked to do something that isn't quite the norm then that is the mangers chioce. It doesn't make HIM out of position does it?
Of course it was HIM out of position, as he is the 'object' that is moving around the pitch - rather like a chess piece is moved by a chess player, it may not necessarily be of his choice but it's still HIM who is in the 'wrong' place - it may not be his fault, but it is HIM.
You can only be out of position if you are not in the position you have been told to play in... I struggle to see why you find this so hard to understand
If Parkinson has sais Jonjo, drift in and constantly I dont want you going on the outside I want you to constantly give an option for Nicky and Jose.......
and then when he follows instructions it doesnt really come off and makes him look like hes out of position, its not Jonjo's fault is it....... Its a tactical error from Parkinson.......
Uncle is simply saying WE DONT KNOW WHAT PARKISON ASKED HIM TO DO......
So we arent aware if its Jonjo doing his own think and ended up out of position OR if parky is giving him specific instructions and hes out of position.....
One of those is Jonjos fault the otehr one is Parkinsons fault... I hope this is simple enough for everyone....
[cite]Posted By: uncle[/cite]
You can only be out of position if you are not in the position you have been told to play in... I struggle to see why you find this so hard to understand
Well, I struggle to see why you can't understand that Mclovin was expressing an opinion that he felt Jonjo wasn't taking up the positions a left midfielder should. He was the first one to state it might be that Parkinson was telling him to do that or it might be Jonjo was showing his lack of experience/natural aptitue for that position, he was just expressing his opinion that the way Jonjo played last night didn't really work out as well as it might - not apportioning blame for it.
[cite]Posted By: mascot88[/cite]If Parkinson has sais Jonjo, drift in and constantly I dont want you going on the outside I want you to constantly give an option for Nicky and Jose.......
and then when he follows instructions it doesnt really come off and makes him look like hes out of position, its not Jonjo's fault is it....... Its a tactical error from Parkinson.......
Uncle is simply saying WE DONT KNOW WHAT PARKISON ASKED HIM TO DO......
So we arent aware if its Jonjo doing his own think and ended up out of position OR if parky is giving him specific instructions and hes out of position.....
One of those is Jonjos fault the otehr one is Parkinsons fault... I hope this is simple enough for everyone....
try and have a guess which one is which......
The point is mascot, if you read the posts, no-one actually points the finger of blame squarly at Jonjo, they merely state that they feel it wasn't the right tactic, whoever came up with it.
Stating he was out of position is pointing a finger. Mascott i agree no one knows what was said which is my argument entirely. He cant be out of position if no one knows what position or role he was told to play,if it looked right or never came off is another argument but for people to say he was out of position is wrong.
[cite]Posted By: Exiled_Addick[/cite]
[cite]Posted By: uncle[/cite]
Of course it was HIM out of position, as he is the 'object' that is moving around the pitch - rather like a chess piece is moved by a chess player, it may not necessarily be of his choice but it's still HIM who is in the 'wrong' place - it may not be his fault, but it is HIM.
Not pointing a finger ... DO me a favour your argument is pathetic. You say it is him then you say you aint pointing a finger. You stated earlier that he didn't take up the position of a natural left milfielder should, maybe thats because he aint a natural midfielder and maybe that was the reason he was told to cut inside when he could. I dont know you tell me,you've obviously had a chat with parky and the team and found out your facts. By the way when bailey plays out wide left he always cuts inside too. Dtrange you dont have a thread about that. Anyway give my love to parky next time your discussing Jonjo's positioning
[cite]Posted By: uncle[/cite]Strange you dont have a thread about that.
Uncle, I don't have a thread about that though - I have thread asking people if they thought Jonjo's showing last night suggested he has the making of a solution to our left midfield dilema or not and if not who they think is, now Bailey has made the centre of midfield his own for the time being. I've not expressed any opinion myself as I wasn't at the game - that's why I wanted to canvas other's opinions. All I've done is try to interpret what Mclovin said, which is that he thought Jonjo didn't shine as left midfielder because he was inside a lot. This, as you quite rightly state, could well be because he's not naturally a left midfielder (and a very young player to boot) and could quite easliy be because Parky has told him to play that way - I've at no point claimed to know which is the truth and neither has Mclovin.
You're obviously going to be defensive of Jonjo, and quite rightly so but this is a football message board and people come on here to discuss Charlton and it's players. Jonjo in particular will attract a lot of discussion because we all see what a talent he is and are particularly interested in his development as a result, but no one has said anything insulting or heavily criticised Jonjo in any way on this thread so I don't really see what you've found to get so upset about.
I think you'll find that if you look at what you posted you did actually have an opinion. You said of course it was HIM out of position. Fine that is you opinoin and your entitled to it . But as you quite rightly say this is a football message board and i'm entitled to my opinion as much as anyone else and just because i'm related doesn't make my argument any weaker.I'm not arguing that it isn't he's best position,i am arguing that he didn't play out of position,you can both claim he did but the fact remains neither of you know his position or role. So in all respect you cant really say it was HIM. Message board or not get a few facts right it makes it easier to read
Uncle you are arguing about Mclovin'smeaning of the phrase out of position - he means Jonjo wasn't where he felt Jonjo should be. As we've both stated no-one knows why that was, but it's a perfectly fair comment. My point was , working with Mclovin' meaning of the phrase, ifyou play Chess and you move a piece you could say it's in the right place (i.e where you told it to go, or where Parky told Jonjo to go in the instance of Tuesday's match), but if with your oppponents next move he takes that piece that piece it also turns out to be in the wrong place - it's not the chess piece's fault, it's the chess player's but the chess piece is the active object so it's the piece that is in the wrong place. That is all anyone means and no one has stated anything factually incorrect. That is what I meant when I said it has to be Jonjo who was out of position simply because it could only be him - it couldn't be you or me or Parky could it? So no, I didn't express an opinion on his performance because I didn't see it - if I had I may not have agreed with Mclovin, in which case I'd have said so.
tell you what i wont mind our left mid playing out of the "normal Position" if we win every game 4-2 from now till the end of the season especially against a team nipping at the heels of us.
Jon jo will be more effective as a centre mid it is obvious but if Mooney's arse hadnt got in the way then our out of postion Left mid who had cut inside at the time and smashed one, wouldve scored and 3 nil there would have been no coming back and it would have been a proper hammering.
we need to be able to accomodate him as he has a great future, IMO we will be selling bailey in January and we will be light in midfield and he can step back in to his natural place.
but he done more than ok on tuesday and i reckon that every team in the Chumpionship and everyteam in this shite league would rip their arm off for him
[cite]Posted By: nth london addick[/cite]IMO we will be selling bailey in January and we will be light in midfield and he can step back in to his natural place.
Who do you think will buy him? I can't imagine Prem clubs going after him, and how many Championship clubs have the money and need a central midfielder? He might go, hopefully not, but if he does there would surely only be a small group of clubs that could afford him, he'd like to sign for, and need a player in his position.
Just got round to reading this thread.........just expanding on what NLA said, Jonjo at LM isn't of course a natural winger, doesn't have that sort of aptitude - but surely was instructed to keep fairly disciplined within that channel, a sort of Graeme Stuart role (as in Curb's use of a conventional winger and 3 CM's strong across the park, the LM playing narrow).
Now as we know, most of our attacking play comes through Sam on the right, over comes the cross - and in comes Jonjo from deep from that left sided channel. late and unmarked, and gets the shot on goal. Bailey at LM did much the same.
It's a tactic that earlier this season worked very well, and a number of our goals came from it, especially from Bailey.
I wouldn't mind betting that Parky was hoping Jonjo could take advantage in the same way as Bailey used to.
Meanwhile, with Semodo sitting - Bailey and Jonjo can alternate who gets forward and CM has that extra defensive depth, plus also the blind side of the opposing defence getting exposed.
Whether it worked as anticipated against B Rovers I don't know, but it does have potential. And as AFKA pointed out, it gives Jonjo a more rounded experience and appreciation of the midfielders role.
[cite]Posted By: Oggy Red[/cite]Graeme Stuart role (as in Curb's use of a conventional winger and 3 CM's strong across the park, the LM playing narrow
Curbs even played four CMs didn't he? Definitely had Konchesky on the left and Parker on the right before, probably had Stuart on the right and Jensen on the left at some point as well?
With the quality of our midfielders it's fine in this league, though it'd be nice to have a left footed left winger as an option down that side (though we still have Holden and McKenzie if he can get fit). Bailey, Shelvey and Racon there will all offer slightly different things as well.
I'm confused. What does your average 17yr old chess player look like exactly? Or are you trying to imply Jonjo hasnt got the mental agility to play chess Exile?
[cite]Posted By: KBslittlesis[/cite]I'm confused. What does your average 17yr old chess player look like exactly? Or are you trying to imply Jonjo hasnt got the mental agility to play chess Exile?
You can't judge a book by it's cover KB, but the kids on my school football team tended to look a lot different from the kids who joined the science club and might play the odd game of chess - Jonjo, unsuprisingly, looks a lot more like the football team kids than the science club kids - for a start he looks like he's seen daylight in the last 3 weeks!
I'm happy for Jonjo to stay on the left. Albeit I'd like the staff to bang on at him to remain a very tight left quite close to the cm, so there is very little gap between them. After all how many good pacey wingers are there in this div or indeed in the champ? Just get him a little more positionally disciplined.
If he wants to see how a tight midfielder should play he should look no further than Parker at the WHammies atm. I now Parker's in the middle and is covered by their best player - Behrami - but he is positionally solid yet when play breaks down he is the first to be positive and attack space. All too often Shelvey is way too eager and caught in nowheresville when play breaks down. If he ain't positionally aware then there is no point him ever coming inside to central midfield in a four. Bowyer at his age was tigerish defensively and offensively, without being a line hugger. I know JJ isn't as competitive Bowyer but he does need to hold his own channel defensively before he can use what looks like a very good engine for picking up pieces in breakdown play.
I think I was more making the point that we dont know if he is acting on instruction or "wandering around" on his own accord...
LOL , for some reason that has made me laugh, Parky in the dressing room "I wants lots of wandering around from you Jonjo , Lots of it... Bailey bit less wandering around... Dailly, NO WANDERING AROUND!!! Alright Lets GO!!!!"
Comments
In time this quality kid will blow our socks off...if we can hang onto him.
You can only be out of position if you are not in the position you have been told to play in... I struggle to see why you find this so hard to understand
and then when he follows instructions it doesnt really come off and makes him look like hes out of position, its not Jonjo's fault is it....... Its a tactical error from Parkinson.......
Uncle is simply saying WE DONT KNOW WHAT PARKISON ASKED HIM TO DO......
So we arent aware if its Jonjo doing his own think and ended up out of position OR if parky is giving him specific instructions and hes out of position.....
One of those is Jonjos fault the otehr one is Parkinsons fault... I hope this is simple enough for everyone....
try and have a guess which one is which......
Well, I struggle to see why you can't understand that Mclovin was expressing an opinion that he felt Jonjo wasn't taking up the positions a left midfielder should. He was the first one to state it might be that Parkinson was telling him to do that or it might be Jonjo was showing his lack of experience/natural aptitue for that position, he was just expressing his opinion that the way Jonjo played last night didn't really work out as well as it might - not apportioning blame for it.
The point is mascot, if you read the posts, no-one actually points the finger of blame squarly at Jonjo, they merely state that they feel it wasn't the right tactic, whoever came up with it.
sorry, just re read mclovin's "not sure how he was detailsed to play... etc"
my mistake jumped the gun....
cheers for pointing that out Exiled......
(5 mins in the corner for me)
Uncle, I don't have a thread about that though - I have thread asking people if they thought Jonjo's showing last night suggested he has the making of a solution to our left midfield dilema or not and if not who they think is, now Bailey has made the centre of midfield his own for the time being. I've not expressed any opinion myself as I wasn't at the game - that's why I wanted to canvas other's opinions. All I've done is try to interpret what Mclovin said, which is that he thought Jonjo didn't shine as left midfielder because he was inside a lot. This, as you quite rightly state, could well be because he's not naturally a left midfielder (and a very young player to boot) and could quite easliy be because Parky has told him to play that way - I've at no point claimed to know which is the truth and neither has Mclovin.
You're obviously going to be defensive of Jonjo, and quite rightly so but this is a football message board and people come on here to discuss Charlton and it's players. Jonjo in particular will attract a lot of discussion because we all see what a talent he is and are particularly interested in his development as a result, but no one has said anything insulting or heavily criticised Jonjo in any way on this thread so I don't really see what you've found to get so upset about.
Jon jo will be more effective as a centre mid it is obvious but if Mooney's arse hadnt got in the way then our out of postion Left mid who had cut inside at the time and smashed one, wouldve scored and 3 nil there would have been no coming back and it would have been a proper hammering.
we need to be able to accomodate him as he has a great future, IMO we will be selling bailey in January and we will be light in midfield and he can step back in to his natural place.
but he done more than ok on tuesday and i reckon that every team in the Chumpionship and everyteam in this shite league would rip their arm off for him
Shame, I would have liked to listen to them.
If I had to guess SoundAs, I wouldn;t say Jonjo looks like your average 17yr old chess player - I'm hoping his Uncle can understand my analogy though!
Now as we know, most of our attacking play comes through Sam on the right, over comes the cross - and in comes Jonjo from deep from that left sided channel. late and unmarked, and gets the shot on goal. Bailey at LM did much the same.
It's a tactic that earlier this season worked very well, and a number of our goals came from it, especially from Bailey.
I wouldn't mind betting that Parky was hoping Jonjo could take advantage in the same way as Bailey used to.
Meanwhile, with Semodo sitting - Bailey and Jonjo can alternate who gets forward and CM has that extra defensive depth, plus also the blind side of the opposing defence getting exposed.
Whether it worked as anticipated against B Rovers I don't know, but it does have potential. And as AFKA pointed out, it gives Jonjo a more rounded experience and appreciation of the midfielders role.
Its the same bloomin thing he is saying!!
We werent in the dressing room, therefore we dont know if he was asked to wander around or if he was doing it himself..
Think of two teapots, then think of a washing machine and a lorry moving a load of old furniture around... then &*^% off !!!
next!
Curbs even played four CMs didn't he? Definitely had Konchesky on the left and Parker on the right before, probably had Stuart on the right and Jensen on the left at some point as well?
With the quality of our midfielders it's fine in this league, though it'd be nice to have a left footed left winger as an option down that side (though we still have Holden and McKenzie if he can get fit). Bailey, Shelvey and Racon there will all offer slightly different things as well.
;0)
Just an opinion and applicable to more than just this thread.
You can't judge a book by it's cover KB, but the kids on my school football team tended to look a lot different from the kids who joined the science club and might play the odd game of chess - Jonjo, unsuprisingly, looks a lot more like the football team kids than the science club kids - for a start he looks like he's seen daylight in the last 3 weeks!
I'm happy for Jonjo to stay on the left. Albeit I'd like the staff to bang on at him to remain a very tight left quite close to the cm, so there is very little gap between them. After all how many good pacey wingers are there in this div or indeed in the champ? Just get him a little more positionally disciplined.
If he wants to see how a tight midfielder should play he should look no further than Parker at the WHammies atm. I now Parker's in the middle and is covered by their best player - Behrami - but he is positionally solid yet when play breaks down he is the first to be positive and attack space. All too often Shelvey is way too eager and caught in nowheresville when play breaks down. If he ain't positionally aware then there is no point him ever coming inside to central midfield in a four. Bowyer at his age was tigerish defensively and offensively, without being a line hugger. I know JJ isn't as competitive Bowyer but he does need to hold his own channel defensively before he can use what looks like a very good engine for picking up pieces in breakdown play.
I think I was more making the point that we dont know if he is acting on instruction or "wandering around" on his own accord...
LOL , for some reason that has made me laugh, Parky in the dressing room "I wants lots of wandering around from you Jonjo , Lots of it... Bailey bit less wandering around... Dailly, NO WANDERING AROUND!!! Alright Lets GO!!!!"
Im killing myself here...lol