Perhaps people are choosing to miss out on the pub in order to go to football, their loyalty to one is greater than to the other. Oggy has a point though. I live in a rural area and the only reason the local is surviving is because the food side of things is outstanding. Fewer people are working on the land these days and the few locals the pub now attracts can't support it on their custom alone. Fortunately it's a Free House and doesn't have to buy its beer from one brewer which helps the situation but not too far away in Redhill, tied pubs are closing at a frightening rate, roughly in line with the amount of office space which is becoming available.
Seems that breweries consider it more profitable in the short term to sell off a pub cashing in on it's property value.
I suppose business is all about maximising profit, so that's the name of the game.
The previous landlord says: “The area is absolutely devastated by this. It’s completely and utterly destroying the community. There’s nowhere to meet anymore - there’s nothing.]"
Not overly surprised that the John Evelyn's gone. Watched every episode of "The Tower" documentary and it looked like the sort of place that needed a good clean and a paint job.
The Deptford Arms is a different matter altogether - thriving local, very well run and on Deptford High Street which is supposedly a conservation area. The number of bookies along that road now is absolutely disgraceful.
I was in Deptford High Street on Sunday, was a shame to see Paddie Power there now, especially when it's next door to another bookies! I never saw the Deptford Arms empty, no matter what time of the day it was there was always a decent crowd in there. The Hope in Peckham has also changed to a bookies. The amount of bookies in deprived areas is going off topic, but I'm tired of the government lying and claiming that the numbers are going down.
Reason for pub closures; the smoking ban and the price difference between the supermarkets. Why smoke in the cold with your drink when you can get mates round and save a fortune? I don't get this England isn't England any more argument.
Smoking is obviously one of the factors, but they were closing at a rate of knots before the ban in any case.
Price is definitely another.
The England isn't England anymore is pretty obvious. England is I believe (I stand to be corrected) the only country with pubs. Some countries have bars and some appear to have very few places at all to get a drink. Hence I spent hours walking around Bruges, during the day to find somewhere to get a beer recently.
A lot of countries only drink alcohol with food, not as many only just drink.
Therefore, in the world we now live with people living all over the place, there are far more people now living here that either don't drink alcohol at all or certainly would not entertain the idea of going to a pub. Simples.
When i worked at Deptford Power Station most of the people working would go for a beer or two atlunch time. It was normal. There was 300+people working at "the power".It closed in 1983. The area lost that trade and the areas demo-graphics etc have changed. However if i then leap forward a good few years to ExxonMobil we were not allowed to drink at all while at work and at least once a year would be tested for A+D. Loads of issues like that have helped bring down the pub trade.
I still find it strange that so little is done about what it part of our culture going to the wall-------------------------we care sooooooooooo much about everyone elses.
[cite]Posted By: Covered End[/cite]England is I believe (I stand to be corrected) the only country with pubs.
I've seen a lot of the world and the only place I've visited which didn't have pubs was an Islamic country. I've also had many people tell me that England doesn't have as much of a drinking culture as their country, one of which was Belgium so I'm surprised you were unable to find a pub in Bruges.
[cite]Posted By: Goonerhater[/cite]I still find it strange that so little is done about what it part of our culture going to the wall
we care sooooooooooo much about everyone elses.
Despite what I've said above I do agree with this though.
A lot of valid points being made.Goonhaters point about the working environment is spot on,when I started work in the mid eighties in Plumstead we were in the pub every lunchtime,the Lord Derby mostly 3 or 4 pints and back to work.Place was full of people.Eight pubs on the HIgh Street then how many now?Then working at Hither Green a few pints here and there.The A+D testing became fashionable and that was the end of that. I think the brewers have a lot to answer for.Local pubs cant compete with the town centre pubs full of youngsters charging a fiver a pint,but even these are shutting. Weren't these brewery managers read the story about the goose that lays the golden egg when they were small? Opening hours have had an influence as well.I noticed this in two situations especially,the first was a village in N.Wales.The local pubs were bouncing especially at the weekend if you weren't in the pub for 6:30 you wouldn't get a sniff of a seat.The local "Big Town" pubs were only open half hour or so later,so most didn't bother with the bus ride in an the hassle of getting a taxi home.When the hours changed the "Big Town" got its night club open until 2 AM that crucified the local pub with the punters meeting in someones house with a carry-out and get the 9PM bus to the club.This pub struggled on for while finishing up only open during the day at weekends and finally shut. The second was the rugby club I played for in SE London.Before the hours change all ages would stay in the club after the game drinking,obviously with the early start a few fell by the wayside.This all changed with the younger element going home after the game finished so they were fresh for going out later. I now live in a very rural place in Scotland.We have one pub only only open in the evenings and weekends.This is almost exclusively used by the Scottish locals( myself and a spanner excluded both living with local girls).There are quite a few in the village from SE England who are constantly moaning that they didnt like where they have come from.Though you dont see any of them in the pub! Some of them wont send their kids to local school or even use the shop.Has the attitude to going to the pub changed that much in SE England? The other thing I reckon that is killing the pub is Sky television.The amount they charge landlords to show the sports channel has meant a lot cant afford it.Even the sports news channel has gone off free view.So the end of the day a bargain bucket of beer out of ASDAS and the game on Sky in your own front room is becoming the only or even preferred option.Also the amount of disposable income has fallen big style(remember tax relief on your mortgage,CSA payments and married mans tax?) and will fall further So I think these things have broken the habit of many of using the pub.
Following on from Jimmy85's pub thread I thought I'd resurrect this one (Which I haven't read all the way through, apologies).
Socially and Culturally I find the pub closure rate to be one of the saddest things to happen in my lifetime (along with Concorde's early retirement and Ken axing the Routemasters).
Scant regard has been given to these historical taverns that, over the years, have held so many stories and tales through their position as the local social meeting place.
If they are to shut due to economics, I would have like to have seen the buildings protected at least but it's too late for most now.
The public house, bar a few, is pretty much thing of the past, but what are the reasons?
To list a few, including some that have been discussed before:
Tighter working restrictions regarding alcohol (lunch-time!)
Less manufacturing/manual labour industries especially within towns and cities.
Change of social make-up of many of those (normally poorer, working-class areas) areas where those industries were located.
Change of most men's responsibilities in the home/family life.
Price of Alcohol in supermarkets.
Price of Alcohol in pubs (set by Pubcos?)
Greed of Pubcos to sell land for development.
Greed of developers.
Readiness of councils to sell land for development (£££ and/or trying to meet housing quota?) without caring about local history etc.
More social interests (especially for the under-20s that were the pub go-ers of the future)...... Xbox, Playstation, Social-Networking etc.
Explosion in chain-restaurants.
and of course, ironically the nail in the coffin for many pubs, the smoking ban.
Yup, the loss of pubs is certainly robbing us of good old domestic violence, street fights, the loss of working income, family separation. Beer is twice the price of petrol but we only complain about petrol. Brilliant. The crap service, shyte atmosphere, over priced beer, mixers, nibbles and ghastly overpriced food have certainly tugged at my heart strings. Good riddance to those many, many disinterested, pathetic landlords who couldn't even clean their toilets, and invested their profits in drinking themselves to death whilst their paying punters sat on stained, ripped and stinking 30 year old bar stools at sticky tables,their feet sticking to the fetid rancid carpets on their daring tip to the 'conveniences'
Pubs flourished in Victorian times. The 10,000 or so that have gone simply didnt bother to move on a century to meet demand. That, and those bastard pubcos
Yup, the loss of pubs is certainly robbing us of good old domestic violence, street fights, the loss of working income, family separation. Beer is twice the price of petrol but we only complain about petrol. Brilliant. The crap service, shyte atmosphere, over priced beer, mixers, nibbles and ghastly overpriced food have certainly tugged at my heart strings. Good riddance to those many, many disinterested, pathetic landlords who couldn't even clean their toilets, and invested their profits in drinking themselves to death whilst their paying punters sat on stained, ripped and stinking 30 year old bar stools at sticky tables,their feet sticking to the fetid rancid carpets on their daring tip to the 'conveniences'
Pubs flourished in Victorian times. The 10,000 or so that have gone simply didnt bother to move on a century to meet demand. That, and those bastard pubcos
You sound like a barrell of laughs.
Still, thank heavens all those pubs closing has saved us from domestic violence. Oh .... hang on!
Cost of having a few beers is now a major consideration. Between the government tax and greedy brewers most people now have to think twice before going to the pub for the evening. When I was a teenager / early twenties I was in the pub four or five times a week. My daughter and friends rarely go because it just too expensive. Once this generation gets out of the habit the pub culture as we know it has had it.
Cost of having a few beers is now a major consideration. Between the government tax and greedy brewers most people now have to think twice before going to the pub for the evening. When I was a teenager / early twenties I was in the pub four or five times a week. My daughter and friends rarely go because it just too expensive. Once this generation gets out of the habit the pub culture as we know it has had it.
Not to mention also that the price of beer in Supermarkets are far more cheaper than a pint of beer in a pub. It's no wonder why most pubs are serving food these days and more weatherspoons are opening, its just not a proper pub
I go to the pub at least twice a week and its normally dead in there but I normally go just to have a drink with a few of my mates. A pub is a very good social activity, where else can we go to where we can socialize properly?
Solution, cut the beer regular tax will be a good for starters which will encourage the Brewer to cut the price of beer. I am sure the price of beer goes up by the Brewer after the goverment puts up tax on beer duty? The goverment won't do that anyway, especially if more people are cutting smoking as the price of cigarettes go up so the Goverment need to put taxes up elsewhere.
Comments
I suppose business is all about maximising profit, so that's the name of the game.
The previous landlord says: “The area is absolutely devastated by this. It’s completely and utterly destroying the community. There’s nowhere to meet anymore - there’s nothing.]"
The Deptford Arms is a different matter altogether - thriving local, very well run and on Deptford High Street which is supposedly a conservation area. The number of bookies along that road now is absolutely disgraceful.
Reason for pub closures; the smoking ban and the price difference between the supermarkets. Why smoke in the cold with your drink when you can get mates round and save a fortune? I don't get this England isn't England any more argument.
Price is definitely another.
The England isn't England anymore is pretty obvious. England is I believe (I stand to be corrected) the only country with pubs. Some countries have bars and some appear to have very few places at all to get a drink. Hence I spent hours walking around Bruges, during the day to find somewhere to get a beer recently.
A lot of countries only drink alcohol with food, not as many only just drink.
Therefore, in the world we now live with people living all over the place, there are far more people now living here that either don't drink alcohol at all or certainly would not entertain the idea of going to a pub. Simples.
I still find it strange that so little is done about what it part of our culture going to the wall-------------------------we care sooooooooooo much about everyone elses.
Despite what I've said above I do agree with this though.
I think the brewers have a lot to answer for.Local pubs cant compete with the town centre pubs full of youngsters charging a fiver a pint,but even these are shutting. Weren't these brewery managers read the story about the goose that lays the golden egg when they were small?
Opening hours have had an influence as well.I noticed this in two situations especially,the first was a village in N.Wales.The local pubs were bouncing especially at the weekend if you weren't in the pub for 6:30 you wouldn't get a sniff of a seat.The local "Big Town" pubs were only open half hour or so later,so most didn't bother with the bus ride in an the hassle of getting a taxi home.When the hours changed the "Big Town" got its night club open until 2 AM that crucified the local pub with the punters meeting in someones house with a carry-out and get the 9PM bus to the club.This pub struggled on for while finishing up only open during the day at weekends and finally shut.
The second was the rugby club I played for in SE London.Before the hours change all ages would stay in the club after the game drinking,obviously with the early start a few fell by the wayside.This all changed with the younger element going home after the game finished so they were fresh for going out later.
I now live in a very rural place in Scotland.We have one pub only only open in the evenings and weekends.This is almost exclusively used by the Scottish locals( myself and a spanner excluded both living with local girls).There are quite a few in the village from SE England who are constantly moaning that they didnt like where they have come from.Though you dont see any of them in the pub! Some of them wont send their kids to local school or even use the shop.Has the attitude to going to the pub changed that much in SE England?
The other thing I reckon that is killing the pub is Sky television.The amount they charge landlords to show the sports channel has meant a lot cant afford it.Even the sports news channel has gone off free view.So the end of the day a bargain bucket of beer out of ASDAS and the game on Sky in your own front room is becoming the only or even preferred option.Also the amount of disposable income has fallen big style(remember tax relief on your mortgage,CSA payments and married mans tax?) and will fall further So I think these things have broken the habit of many of using the pub.
Socially and Culturally I find the pub closure rate to be one of the saddest things to happen in my lifetime (along with Concorde's early retirement and Ken axing the Routemasters).
Scant regard has been given to these historical taverns that, over the years, have held so many stories and tales through their position as the local social meeting place.
If they are to shut due to economics, I would have like to have seen the buildings protected at least but it's too late for most now.
The public house, bar a few, is pretty much thing of the past, but what are the reasons?
To list a few, including some that have been discussed before:
Tighter working restrictions regarding alcohol (lunch-time!)
Less manufacturing/manual labour industries especially within towns and cities.
Change of social make-up of many of those (normally poorer, working-class areas) areas where those industries were located.
Change of most men's responsibilities in the home/family life.
Price of Alcohol in supermarkets.
Price of Alcohol in pubs (set by Pubcos?)
Greed of Pubcos to sell land for development.
Greed of developers.
Readiness of councils to sell land for development (£££ and/or trying to meet housing quota?) without caring about local history etc.
More social interests (especially for the under-20s that were the pub go-ers of the future)...... Xbox, Playstation, Social-Networking etc.
Explosion in chain-restaurants.
and of course, ironically the nail in the coffin for many pubs, the smoking ban.
The crap service, shyte atmosphere, over priced beer, mixers, nibbles and ghastly overpriced food have certainly tugged at my heart strings.
Good riddance to those many, many disinterested, pathetic landlords who couldn't even clean their toilets, and invested their profits in drinking themselves to death whilst their paying punters sat on stained, ripped and stinking 30 year old bar stools at sticky tables,their feet sticking to the fetid rancid carpets on their daring tip to the 'conveniences'
Pubs flourished in Victorian times. The 10,000 or so that have gone simply didnt bother to move on a century to meet demand. That, and those bastard pubcos
Still, thank heavens all those pubs closing has saved us from domestic violence. Oh .... hang on!
I go to the pub at least twice a week and its normally dead in there but I normally go just to have a drink with a few of my mates. A pub is a very good social activity, where else can we go to where we can socialize properly?
Solution, cut the beer regular tax will be a good for starters which will encourage the Brewer to cut the price of beer. I am sure the price of beer goes up by the Brewer after the goverment puts up tax on beer duty? The goverment won't do that anyway, especially if more people are cutting smoking as the price of cigarettes go up so the Goverment need to put taxes up elsewhere.