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Employment Law (again)

edited January 2010 in Rumours
Unscrupulous companies who are penalizing staff due to the poor weather conditions by not paying them or asking them to use holidays. I believe that the the imformation maybe correct but would like it confirmed.

We have been told by a solicitor specialising in Employment law that :

An Employer may ask you to take leave at their request (because of the weather) but the term of notice is the same as length of leave they require you to take.

So dictacting when you may or may not get to work due the snow would be pretty much impossible, is that correct?
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  • [cite]Posted By: T.C.E[/cite]Unscrupulous companies who are penalizing staff due to the poor weather conditions by not paying them or asking them to use holidays. I believe that the the imformation maybe correct but would like it confirmed.

    We have been told by a solicitor specialising in Employment law that :

    An Employer may ask you to take leave at their request (because of the weather) but the term of notice is the same as length of leave they require you to take.

    So dictacting when you may or may not get to work due the snow would be pretty much impossible, is that correct?

    I have no idea whether it is correct, but I'd like to think so. What I don't get is, if you were told this by, "a solicitor specialising in Employment law", why are you asking us?
  • [cite]Posted By: Stig[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: T.C.E[/cite]Unscrupulous companies who are penalizing staff due to the poor weather conditions by not paying them or asking them to use holidays. I believe that the the imformation maybe correct but would like it confirmed.

    We have been told by a solicitor specialising in Employment law that :

    An Employer may ask you to take leave at their request (because of the weather) but the term of notice is the same as length of leave they require you to take.

    So dictacting when you may or may not get to work due the snow would be pretty much impossible, is that correct?



    I have no idea whether it is correct, but I'd like to think so. What I don't get is, if you were told this by, "a solicitor specialising in Employment law", why are you asking us?

    I wasn't in the room when it said or on the other end of the phone nor do I have confirmation in writing, the question was asked by on our behalf to the brief. So I have changed the catagory I started the thread in ; )
  • I am unsure that this is law. More of a 'kite flying' exercise to scare people. It depends on your contract of employment.

    I failed to get in on Thursday , no trains and swapped with going in yesterday, my day off.
    Often it depends on your line manager/boss and do they think you are using this as an excuse.

    As I work for a large company, they are generally more relaxed about this sort of thing, and hopefully a person will try and get in, in my experience.

    Lazy work shy people tend to get found out these days!, it is pretty common where I work that people work through there lunch hour and stay late when required.

    Hopefully the attitude is remembered when you need some time off , to attend school meetings etc. go to the dentist.

    A shit employeer is a shit employeer!. I have known a couple, only briefly like clients they soon become ex, my loss no doubt,..... but then theres as well........
  • Like yourself Ken, I work for very large company and while I have managed to get to work everyday this week the company vehicle I drive has not moved since monday. All of the guys including myself who have been stuck have manged to walk to a main road where they been collected by a colleague. A memo was issued stating that we would be asked to use holiday should we not be able to get out,although this has yet to be enforced. Although we work from home (Not in the Laptop sense) our working day starts when we leave home so when we step out the door the clock starts ticking. We also think its a bit of a bullying exercise.
    While in one breath they are saying "Do not drive if its at all unsafe" in the next they are saying "If you dont you will use your holidays"
  • i am led to believe that it is unlawful for the company to with hold pay however they are in their rights should you fail to make it to work to ask you to make up the hours or take holiday from your annual entitlement, however if the business fails to open due to adverse weather for eg your manager or key holders fail to arrive then you do not have to repay hours or take leave
  • [cite]Posted By: T.C.E[/cite]An Employer may ask you to take leave at their request (because of the weather) but the term of notice is the same as length of leave they require you to take.

    So dictacting when you may or may not get to work due the snow would be pretty much impossible, is that correct?
    No, it will be in your terms of employment and might not necessarily be the same.

    If you're contract is silent on the matter (e.g. it's not mentioned) then the lawyer is probably right in saying that's how the court would work it out. But, in reality, you'd have to take an action against your employer which isn't easy/quick or cheap. If people are union members I'd suggest talking to them as they'll have lawyers with knowledge of particular contracts and accepted practice in the company/industry. If not, it'd be tough to stop the employer doing what they wanted even with the terms on your side.
  • Yes, I read that some supermarkets were trying there hands at this, claiming to impose this sanction. You would probably have to prove that you made a 'reasonable ' attempt to get in.
    How you define that one good luck. Also if you offer to come in at the weekend, take work home, or make up the time within a resonable period, say 6 weeks, I feel most courts would support your actions. If you just looked out the window and thought ' oh I cannot get to the station' there may not be any trains then you would probably would have a difficult time .

    As I originally posted, if the employeer does not pay this money for a person living a fair distance away, and comes in by public transport, that is severely disrupted, or not running they deserve to be facing a legal challenge and the negative publicity that will be attracted and the ridicule it will attract. I think most people have one eye on the dole queue these day's , or are plain stupid, or have an immense talent!. I produce a product each week, so in essence it is pretty easy to see wether I have been working, otherwise the newspaper does not appear!. I would like to think that the night's I have stayed late, the work I have taken home etc compensates for the occassional late arrival, mainly due to public transport. But I appreciate that some employeers are not like that.

    I have always had a high opinion of my own worth, and feel that I work far in excess of the hours in my contract, and quality is better than most , but then that is my ego!.
    (I think I am one of the few people who resigned because my pay rise was not big enough, after a pay review with the MD.)
  • i see all the posters on this thread dont run their own business,or employ people. If I had my time again I would go back to being a employee coz you lot dont know how much,everything is in your favour.It's fecking hard enough trying to earn a living as it is without all the barriers the government & europe put in front of you.Christ almighty why the hell should I pay somebody a days wage if they dont come to work.Shakes his head in total disbelief at all the
    people feeling hard done by.
  • [cite]Posted By: northstandsteve[/cite]i see all the posters on this thread dont run their own business,or employ people. If I had my time again I would go back to being a employee coz you lot dont know how much,everything is in your favour.It's fecking hard enough trying to earn a living as it is without all the barriers the government & europe put in front of you.Christ almighty why the hell should I pay somebody a days wage if they dont come to work.Shakes his head in total disbelief at all the
    people feeling hard done by.

    You still sending the little'uns up chimmy's then Steve? ; )
  • edited January 2010
    Honestly mate if i knew then wot i know now i would never got into being a employer,there is feck all in your favour.
    But you just have to get on with it,tell me Ray when you had your kids did you enjoy your paid paternity leave?
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  • No mate, no paternity leave.

    It all seems that long ago now I dont remember being at the conception, let the after the birth and the first few weeks of their life ; )

    Foresight is a wonderful thing, but ask me now if I would have like to have been and I would answer, Yes!

    I dont think its all a one way street, a lot of company's out there use the big stick.

    We have asked our company several times to put one of their little rules into our contracts, we wont sign them but we want them to add it. They wont, why wont they add it because its against one of the laws of employment.

    If it was legal they could give us 3 months notice then add it to our contracts if we then refuse to sign we would be asked to leave.
  • Different rules for different places. If you work for the local council they probably shit themselves worrying about whether to ask people to make up for time missed off work due to the weather in case they take them to an employment tribunal. If I'd told my MD that I wasn't coming in this week because of the snow he would have had the arsehole - but probably wouldn't have fired me because they'd only need to find someone as good as me to do my job - and people in IT who actually know how to do our jobs well don't grow on trees. That said, I'd never dream of not going to work unless it was physically impossible to get in - and when this was the case on one day last year I worked from home all day (got more done there as well with no-one to bother me!)

    I don't think the legislation on this is particularly clear - and I expect there to be some test cases in the next few months from the bigger employers (supermarkets would be the logical choice because they're the usual vanguard for eroding employee rights) who will try and get the public on their side by trotting out media examples of some silly old sod who trekked fifteen miles through three feet of snow o'er hill and dale to get to work, compared with someone who only lives a couple of miles away but couldn't get a train in.
  • When I worked for Ford Motor Co a few years back (a big company by anyones standard) and if you were hourly paid you didnt get paid if you wernt there. Simple as that and no exceptions. They actually pay by the minute,1 minute late = 1 minute less in your paypacket for that week. Late 3 times in a month and you got warning. I found it an absolute vial company to work for.
    Present employer has a much better approach to time keeping and is a little more understanding when it comes peoples travelling problems.
  • Agree with Leroy different rules for different places. In April I am going back to being freelance ( self employed) but on a part time basis. I actually enjoy my job/career and I am very lucky that I have the choice to a) do a job that is interesting. b) Not work for companies that I do like. I totally appreciate I am in a minority. I have had my own company, and employeed people. I learnt very early on that just producing turnover is not want I wanted to acheive, but the enjoyment of the job, and what I created was the important thing. Chasing a quick buck, which we have probably all had to do at some time has always had more disadvantages to me personally. Being a creative type, I am in a priveledged position, but I have never tried to take advantage of an employeer, having had my own business. Maternity leave, as the father of twins never even got a day off, my employeer was totally unreasonable....... myself!
  • i dont go i dont get paid, my company makes no money etc etc. My choice.

    i listened to a lady explain why she didnt come in for 2 days last week she lives in Eltham, i live in Kidbrooke, she is a saleried employee. I got in only 40 mins late on the days she couldnt get in. We as tax payers are paying her wages. I said nothing and just sat there thinking waster.People take the piss when they can, not all of course but a good few.

    Part of makin the effort for me was the fact that a train company (south USELESS Eastern) couldnt run a sevice but i was going to let those numptys stop me from geting in.Some used just that to have a lay in bed.
  • anyone able to recommend an employment lawyer in the Bexleyheath area?

    just been made redundant 
  • what were the reasons given mate, did they follow the correct procedures for deciding who was to be made redundant ?
  • anyone able to recommend an employment lawyer in the Bexleyheath area?

    just been made redundant 
    I believe technically it has to be the job that is made redundant, not the person.
    Do you have access to a Trade Union that might help you?
  • what were the reasons given mate, did they follow the correct procedures for deciding who was to be made redundant ?
    long story mate, funnily enough they are still recruiting for a very similar role to mine - I think I was a bit expensive for them.

    hence I need legal advice
  • I used FG Barnes in Bexleyheath but not for employment law, although I know they include it, in what they undertake, they where good for what I used then]m for.
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  • Acas are always a good start point as well and free
  • Check your home insurance, it may be able to cover any costs incurred.
  • Sorry to hear that Ea , all the best.
  • Sorry to hear mate, there feels a lot of redundancy around at the moment. I’ve three friends in different industries all been made redundant at similar times.

    Hope you come out of it ok 
  • seth plum said:
    anyone able to recommend an employment lawyer in the Bexleyheath area?

    just been made redundant 
    I believe technically it has to be the job that is made redundant, not the person.
    Do you have access to a Trade Union that might help you?
    Yes it is the job that is redundant - 'work of that nature has ceased or diminished at that location'.

    But entirely understandable for the person on the sharp end of it to feel it is 'them'.

  • sorry to hear that D.

    Bob knows what he is talking about so worth contacting him.
  • sorry to hear that D.

    Bob knows what he is talking about so worth contacting him.

    Second that helped me on a problem , Bob is a top man
  • Do you have anything else lined up @Elthamaddick? If not, what do you do? Someone on here might be able to point you in the right direction/introduce you to contacts
  • @Elthamaddick I work in recruitment (very broadly, no idea if we'd be aligned on sector) so do feel free to PM me with a little about you and I can hopefully either point you in the right direction or, depending on role level/sector etc, see what's on my company's current mandate.
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