[cite aria-level=0 aria-posinset=0 aria-setsize=0]Posted By: soapy_jones[/cite]New Labour - one recession in 13 years.
Under the previous 18 years of Thatcherism - three recessions, 3m plus unemployed, the squandering of North Sea oil revenues, the ERM fiasco...
Hardly matches 18 years of Tory misrule
I[b aria-level=0 aria-posinset=0 aria-setsize=0]really should'nt bite Rodders........but what absolute cock ! Still if thats what they taught you at polytechnic, sorry university good luck to you[/b].
Read my post again...I was quoting someone else and wrote my own post beneath that quote.
[cite]Posted By: soapy_jones[/cite]New Labour - one recession in 13 years.
Under the previous 18 years of Thatcherism - three recessions, 3m plus unemployed, the squandering of North Sea oil revenues, the ERM fiasco...
Hardly matches 18 years of Tory misrule
I really should'nt bite Rodders........but what absolute cock ! Still if thats what they taught you at polytechnic, sorry university good luck to you.
The fact is, our UNELECTED prime minister, who as OUR chancellor oversaw five years of one of the biggest booms the world has ever seen, has along with THIS government, abused OUR inheritance, misappropriated OUR family silver, compromised OUR national security and consistently relied on the gullable people THEY have under educated to swallow THEIR blatant spin and lies....
Now, I admit to not being educated to todays lofty standards but I am old enough to have sat through the mess left the last time a Labour party got hold of our country for any length of time. Please excuse me for not falling in line.
Now, global warming......what a load of bollocks !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Soapy,
I'm also old enough but also remember the Thatcher years that destroyed our manufacturing sector and led us to the promised land of a financial services and service sector economy. The one that has got us up shit creek at present. I blame the Labour Government for not doing more to reverse that trend. But if you believe Cameron/Osbourne will make a better fist of things then I'm sorry but you are right we are never going to agree.
Not sure many of us can even agree on what's best for CAFC judging by the threads in recent days :-)
Thatcher was a reaction to past Labour and Conservative miss rule over two decades. And what a reaction ! The manufacturing sector was pronounced dying long before that, she put it out of its misery to be blunt about it. In a bizarre way a mixture of Thatchers get up and go and bollox to what any one focus group says and some of the original Noo Labour posterings and good intentions would probably have worked a lot better over the years. All they needed was a bit of backbone.
As for the Financial and Sector, unfortunately no one has invented anything else, today we live and die by it and I imagine we will be worshiping the same idols in the next up turn of the economy.
"But if you believe Cameron/Osbourne will make a better fist of things then I'm sorry but you are right we are never going to agree."
I didnt. And I havent got the answers unfortunately, so I come here to forget about it......doh!
[cite aria-level=0 aria-posinset=0 aria-setsize=0]Posted By: soapy_jones[/cite]Oh hail Gordon and Alastair..............You Noo Labour types on this board must be dead chuffed.
New Labour - one recession in 13 years.
Under the previous 18 years of Thatcherism - three recessions, 3m plus unemployed, the squandering of North Sea oil revenues, the ERM fiasco...
Hardly matches 18 years of Tory misrule.
Add to that my mortgage going up to 19%, that's a day I'll never forget.
Wow, didn't realise it was as much as that. Thought it was 14%. I do remember a lot of people losing their homes though.
Recession is two consecutive quarters of negative growth, hence one quarter of positive growth breaks the chain. However if you look at unemployment figures falling or rising it's a better indicator. 0.1% growth is next to nothing considering the massive fiscal expenditure.
Whatever side of the debate you're on the modern service sector economy only works when the US is happy to lumber a massive balance of payments defecit; or another developed super-power but there ain't one. Fiscal overspend only has a mark if it carries you through into a period of US growth. Oh well time to invest in developing countries.
Just a point about an "unelected prime minister" - the same was true when Major became PM when the milk snatcher was so memorably driven away from Downing Street in floods of self-pitying tears.
Gordon Brown was a high-profile member of Tony Blair's cabinet and effectively second-in-command and it was widely understood that Blair was going to step down in Brown's favour after the 2005 election, so it's hardly as though he was appointed from back benches. Anyone claiming foul needs to understand how a parliamentary system works.
As it happens in 2005 in protest at the Iraq war - which all the Tory boys and their sycophantic media chums very enthusiadtically supported, I did not vote Labour. Although I disagreed with the legality and necessity of the Iraq war it should be remembered that Blair's military intervention in Sierra Leone and Kosovo saved many lives.
Didn't want to join this debate, but I will. Working in the public sector, I have suddenly found that there are huge amounts of funds available for marketing. We have been told to spend additional millions on PR for the sector we work in. Do you think this is wise during a recession? Should we be spending more taxpayers money on saying how good things are? When does the belt tightening needed start? Are they trying to saddle an incoming government with as much debt as they can whilst trying to spend taxpayers money as PR for their own achievements? Working in the education sector, we are struggling to decide how this money would be well spent, what can you say that this government have achieved, apart from spending a lot of money? Where are the results for their spending of our money? One sector is doing ok, the spending on training union officials out of the public purse has soared, funny that, seeing as they are the labour party's only source of funding, you rub my back etc. The sooner they are gone the better. They have achieved nothing. They have spent billions every year on health which shows no results, unless you count the number of employees in the health sector as a good thing, well all those useless managers would be out of a job I suppose. They have spent billions each year on education, the results are good, gcse and a level results go up every year so it must be good, but anyone really think that aiming for 40% to go to uni is a good thing? Where's the resulting boost to the economy? Seems to be more about keeping people off the dole and NEET figures. Don't start me on defence, why are so many helicopters needed by uk forces sitting in hangars unusable? Because they wanted to save money on the software so when they bought them asked for no software and decided to do it themselves, resulting in said helicopters being unavailable to the troops 5 years after buying them. I myself worked in parliament for 6 years so know how the so called socialists have been feathering their nests and what hypocrites they are, so don't give me any of the old bollox about not knowing what I am talking about. The criminal justice system works in the accused favour, immigration controls are non existent and the gap between rich and poor grows all the time we have a labour government. I don't think Tories have all the answers, but the sooner we get rid of this bunch of self serving twats the better.
[cite]Posted By: Steve Dowman[/cite] Are they trying to saddle an incoming government with as much debt as they can whilst trying to spend taxpayers money as PR for their own achievements?
Hit the nail on the head there Steve my boy.
"Burn it.Burn it all.If we can't have it then nobody can!"
Perhaps the worst thing the Tory party did, other than squander North Sea oil revenues was run up unemployment past the 3.5m mark and destroy manufacturing with high interest rates. Then they cut off investment in education and the NHS in the hope that people would go private to save the State money and the problems that Labour have had and the Tory party will inherit stem from that.
Once we used to make things in this country - cars, ships, steel, we used to mine coal, all industries wrecked and valuable manufacturing jobs lost as well as wealth creation opportunities. I don't think that moving to a tertiary economy is that good an idea.
Labour are complicit in this they have had time to put this right but too much damage was done under Thatcher and then Major and besides getting us to accept high unemployment they also sold us the useless trickle-down economic philosophy, that and monetarism has been rejected by the economists that proposed it. The credit crunch and the billions paid to bankers should be the final nail in the coffin.
"so called socialists have been feathering their nests and what hypocrites they are"
And Britain's biggest welfare queen is Fred Goodwin, a Tory donor and ex-banker who currently is trousering around £600k a year and has no shame after billions of our money had to go to bail out his excesses. Labour and complicit in allowing laissez-faire economics to continue and being too timid to properly regulate the banking and credit industry.
I'm under no illusions that the Tory party would have done anything differently and would probably have been found with their snouts in the trogh, just as they were in the 1980s and 90s when a host of Tory MPs, their wives, cats and dogs all seemed to find places on the boards of directors of privatised utilities.
Another nice attempt at slagging off your opponents, but your rant shows that the biggest class warriors are to be found in the Tory party.
Why not get yourself round to Central Office and offer your services, Steve. I'm sure you would be a real asset to wee Georgie :-)
Bit like a 'Turkey voting for Christmas' with you working in the Public Sector, I'd have thought. You confident you won't be one of the 20% to be culled in Dave's Year 1 Plan?
[cite]Posted By: Chaz Hill[/cite]Why not get yourself round to Central Office and offer your services, Steve. I'm sure you would be a real asset to wee Georgie :-)
Bit like a 'Turkey voting for Christmas' with you working in the Public Sector, I'd have thought. You confident you won't be one of the 20% to be culled in Dave's Year 1 Plan?
Yep, that bit made me laugh, the tough talking tory boy...is a public employee...a distinct case of self-hate there.
Still when call me Dave makes him redundant he can't complain that he didn't know it was going to happen.
Tick tock tic tock weeks away from your total wipe out.
Diane Abbot yes the same real real real socialist sends her kids to private school
" our economy is the best placed to recover from this resesion" some scotiish mafia Labour dick called Darling except we are the last to recover ------- still its not Labours fault.
In fact nothing that went tits up inthe last 13 years is their fault. Nope its just a big lie from the Tory press.
Tick tock tick tock weeks away till i can gloat onhere at your total wipe out and do believe me i will gloat .
Tick tock tick tock weeks away till i can gloat onhere at your total wipe out and do believe me i will gloat .
If you claim to be about 50 then it's likely that you were educated under a Tory government. Given your inability to write anything resembling a coherent sentence in English I think that a damning enough indictment of the wisdom of letting the Tory party anywhere government again.
and your total total lack of originality is a sign of a Labour education system.
Never anything other than an insult is it ? nothing to say re that great socialist Diane Abbot ? of Mr Darlings coment about "best placed" or nothing to say about the last 13 years ?
Blimey! I wish people wouldn't throw grammar grenades, all those commars causing shrapnell head injuries.......
I do find this Labour/Tory debate tedious. As if the Tories would have held back Milton Friedman's lazy regulation. Nope they'd have all been nicking the arbitary dollar on the floor, like everyone else. And what got us into this mess?????? The crazy trading of piles of shit mortgage bonds that were backhanded out the door by Bush outwardly demanding a Thatchernomic revolution in 2001/2. When did that last happen? Hmmmm Saloman Brothers in the mid eighties, lording it in New York and London. So if the Tories achieved fiscal probity betwixt 2001-2003 we'd have had a recession just like Germany did. Like fuck they would have. As if Labour or Conservatives would have bucked at the altar of Mildew FreetheFuckingRichMen.
As someone who won't vote again for Labour (new or otherwise) nor the Conservatives, i've been an interested observer of this 'debate' I would like to make two points;
Someone called 'Chizz' compared the Falklands war with the wars currently happening in Iraq and Afghanistan. The Falklands war was started by General Galtieri of Argentina. He was a fascist dictator with many problems in his homeland. So he decided to revive Argentina's claim to the Falklands, with a military invasion. This he hoped would unite his country behind him. We (Britain) did not start that war. British forces led by Mrs Thatcher, reclaimed the islands. Her actions were completely justified and i thank her for them.
Gordon Brown the unelected Prime Minister. Tony Blair was leader and PM when Labour were re-elected. He then slipped out the side door and allowed Brown in........... Unelected once. Due to Labour's Devolution policy, which has given a parliament or assembly to three parts of the UK (Scotland, Wales and N.Ireland) But has steadfastly ignored the existence of England. Gordon Brown, elected as an MP for Kircaldy and Cowdenbeath, by Scottish voters, now has only approx. 30% of policy control over his homeland. Yet he retains 100% of policy control over England. Despite the fact no English voter has ever voted for him.......Unelected twice.
Tick tock tick tock weeks away till i can gloat onhere at your total wipe out and do believe me i will gloat .
If you claim to be about 50 then it's likely that you were educated under a Tory government. Given your inability to write anything resembling a coherent sentence in English I think that a damning enough indictment of the wisdom of letting the Tory party anywhere government again.
:-)
BFR I know it is difficult to ignore his rants but you are never going to have a reasoned argument with Goonie. Best to let him bang away on his keyboard and just not rise to it!
[cite]Posted By: Daggs[/cite]As someone who won't vote again for Labour (new or otherwise) nor the Conservatives, i've been an interested observer of this 'debate'
I would like to make two points;
Someone called 'Chizz' compared the Falklands war with the wars currently happening in Iraq and Afghanistan.
The Falklands war was started by General Galtieri of Argentina. He was a fascist dictator with many problems in his homeland. So he decided to revive Argentina's claim to the Falklands, with a military invasion. This he hoped would unite his country behind him.
We (Britain) did not start that war. British forces led by Mrs Thatcher, reclaimed the islands. Her actions were completely justified and i thank her for them.
Gordon Brown the unelected Prime Minister.
Tony Blair was leader and PM when Labour were re-elected. He then slipped out the side door and allowed Brown in........... Unelected once.
Due to Labour's Devolution policy, which has given a parliament or assembly to three parts of the UK (Scotland, Wales and N.Ireland) But has steadfastly ignored the existence of England. Gordon Brown, elected as an MP for Kircaldy and Cowdenbeath, by Scottish voters, now has only approx. 30% of policy control over his homeland. Yet he retains 100% of policy control over England. Despite the fact no English voter has ever voted for him.......Unelected twice.
As mentioned earlier we don't elect a leader we elect a party.
Shame Mrs Thatcher's goverment reacted to late to advoid a war. David Owen did (1977) but no one cares to remember that. I had friend in the navy in that war, if people could see what happened to that 20 year old they might have wished we'd tried harder ealier with a show of force rather than an all out war with Argentina.
Someone called 'Chizz' compared the Falklands war with the wars currently happening in Iraq and Afghanistan.
The Falklands war was started by General Galtieri of Argentina. He was a fascist dictator with many problems in his homeland. So he decided to revive Argentina's claim to the Falklands, with a military invasion. This he hoped would unite his country behind him.
We (Britain) did not start that war. British forces led by Mrs Thatcher, reclaimed the islands. Her actions were completely justified and i thank her for them.
...........
Another Thatcher screw-up.
In a cost saving move she took the Royal Naval ship that was defending the Falklands away leaving Galtieri to try his luck and with nothing and no one to stop him, why not.
A bit like leaving your front door wide open and then complaining about thieves and then acting the hero afterwards. She then ordered the Belgrano to be torpedoed while negotiations were on going, a supine media then allowed Thatcher to milk it for all iy was worth, but bear in mind that a lot of brave people on both sides died in a very avoidable war.
Comments
LOL.That's a labour education for you.
Soapy,
I'm also old enough but also remember the Thatcher years that destroyed our manufacturing sector and led us to the promised land of a financial services and service sector economy. The one that has got us up shit creek at present. I blame the Labour Government for not doing more to reverse that trend. But if you believe Cameron/Osbourne will make a better fist of things then I'm sorry but you are right we are never going to agree.
Not sure many of us can even agree on what's best for CAFC judging by the threads in recent days :-)
As for the Financial and Sector, unfortunately no one has invented anything else, today we live and die by it and I imagine we will be worshiping the same idols in the next up turn of the economy.
"But if you believe Cameron/Osbourne will make a better fist of things then I'm sorry but you are right we are never going to agree."
I didnt. And I havent got the answers unfortunately, so I come here to forget about it......doh!
Wow, didn't realise it was as much as that. Thought it was 14%. I do remember a lot of people losing their homes though.
Whatever side of the debate you're on the modern service sector economy only works when the US is happy to lumber a massive balance of payments defecit; or another developed super-power but there ain't one. Fiscal overspend only has a mark if it carries you through into a period of US growth. Oh well time to invest in developing countries.
Gordon Brown was a high-profile member of Tony Blair's cabinet and effectively second-in-command and it was widely understood that Blair was going to step down in Brown's favour after the 2005 election, so it's hardly as though he was appointed from back benches. Anyone claiming foul needs to understand how a parliamentary system works.
As it happens in 2005 in protest at the Iraq war - which all the Tory boys and their sycophantic media chums very enthusiadtically supported, I did not vote Labour. Although I disagreed with the legality and necessity of the Iraq war it should be remembered that Blair's military intervention in Sierra Leone and Kosovo saved many lives.
Didn't want to join this debate, but I will. Working in the public sector, I have suddenly found that there are huge amounts of funds available for marketing. We have been told to spend additional millions on PR for the sector we work in. Do you think this is wise during a recession? Should we be spending more taxpayers money on saying how good things are? When does the belt tightening needed start? Are they trying to saddle an incoming government with as much debt as they can whilst trying to spend taxpayers money as PR for their own achievements? Working in the education sector, we are struggling to decide how this money would be well spent, what can you say that this government have achieved, apart from spending a lot of money? Where are the results for their spending of our money? One sector is doing ok, the spending on training union officials out of the public purse has soared, funny that, seeing as they are the labour party's only source of funding, you rub my back etc. The sooner they are gone the better. They have achieved nothing. They have spent billions every year on health which shows no results, unless you count the number of employees in the health sector as a good thing, well all those useless managers would be out of a job I suppose. They have spent billions each year on education, the results are good, gcse and a level results go up every year so it must be good, but anyone really think that aiming for 40% to go to uni is a good thing? Where's the resulting boost to the economy? Seems to be more about keeping people off the dole and NEET figures. Don't start me on defence, why are so many helicopters needed by uk forces sitting in hangars unusable? Because they wanted to save money on the software so when they bought them asked for no software and decided to do it themselves, resulting in said helicopters being unavailable to the troops 5 years after buying them. I myself worked in parliament for 6 years so know how the so called socialists have been feathering their nests and what hypocrites they are, so don't give me any of the old bollox about not knowing what I am talking about. The criminal justice system works in the accused favour, immigration controls are non existent and the gap between rich and poor grows all the time we have a labour government. I don't think Tories have all the answers, but the sooner we get rid of this bunch of self serving twats the better.
Labour isn't working, again!
RANT OVER, discuss!
Hit the nail on the head there Steve my boy.
"Burn it.Burn it all.If we can't have it then nobody can!"
Once we used to make things in this country - cars, ships, steel, we used to mine coal, all industries wrecked and valuable manufacturing jobs lost as well as wealth creation opportunities. I don't think that moving to a tertiary economy is that good an idea.
Labour are complicit in this they have had time to put this right but too much damage was done under Thatcher and then Major and besides getting us to accept high unemployment they also sold us the useless trickle-down economic philosophy, that and monetarism has been rejected by the economists that proposed it. The credit crunch and the billions paid to bankers should be the final nail in the coffin.
"so called socialists have been feathering their nests and what hypocrites they are"
And Britain's biggest welfare queen is Fred Goodwin, a Tory donor and ex-banker who currently is trousering around £600k a year and has no shame after billions of our money had to go to bail out his excesses. Labour and complicit in allowing laissez-faire economics to continue and being too timid to properly regulate the banking and credit industry.
I'm under no illusions that the Tory party would have done anything differently and would probably have been found with their snouts in the trogh, just as they were in the 1980s and 90s when a host of Tory MPs, their wives, cats and dogs all seemed to find places on the boards of directors of privatised utilities.
Another nice attempt at slagging off your opponents, but your rant shows that the biggest class warriors are to be found in the Tory party.
Bit like a 'Turkey voting for Christmas' with you working in the Public Sector, I'd have thought. You confident you won't be one of the 20% to be culled in Dave's Year 1 Plan?
Had to be a woman that came up with the 0.1%.A bloke would have had it at 10 nearly 20%
that is all.
Yep, that bit made me laugh, the tough talking tory boy...is a public employee...a distinct case of self-hate there.
Still when call me Dave makes him redundant he can't complain that he didn't know it was going to happen.
Diane Abbot yes the same real real real socialist sends her kids to private school
" our economy is the best placed to recover from this resesion" some scotiish mafia Labour dick called Darling except we are the last to recover ------- still its not Labours fault.
In fact nothing that went tits up inthe last 13 years is their fault. Nope its just a big lie from the Tory press.
Tick tock tick tock weeks away till i can gloat onhere at your total wipe out and do believe me i will gloat .
If you claim to be about 50 then it's likely that you were educated under a Tory government. Given your inability to write anything resembling a coherent sentence in English I think that a damning enough indictment of the wisdom of letting the Tory party anywhere government again.
:-)
Never anything other than an insult is it ? nothing to say re that great socialist Diane Abbot ? of Mr Darlings coment about "best placed" or nothing to say about the last 13 years ?
Be a man one day BFR be a man.
I do find this Labour/Tory debate tedious. As if the Tories would have held back Milton Friedman's lazy regulation. Nope they'd have all been nicking the arbitary dollar on the floor, like everyone else. And what got us into this mess?????? The crazy trading of piles of shit mortgage bonds that were backhanded out the door by Bush outwardly demanding a Thatchernomic revolution in 2001/2. When did that last happen? Hmmmm Saloman Brothers in the mid eighties, lording it in New York and London. So if the Tories achieved fiscal probity betwixt 2001-2003 we'd have had a recession just like Germany did. Like fuck they would have. As if Labour or Conservatives would have bucked at the altar of Mildew FreetheFuckingRichMen.
Why's that?
Sorry to pick out one thing, but well it was a pretty important part of your rant/post.
I would like to make two points;
Someone called 'Chizz' compared the Falklands war with the wars currently happening in Iraq and Afghanistan.
The Falklands war was started by General Galtieri of Argentina. He was a fascist dictator with many problems in his homeland. So he decided to revive Argentina's claim to the Falklands, with a military invasion. This he hoped would unite his country behind him.
We (Britain) did not start that war. British forces led by Mrs Thatcher, reclaimed the islands. Her actions were completely justified and i thank her for them.
Gordon Brown the unelected Prime Minister.
Tony Blair was leader and PM when Labour were re-elected. He then slipped out the side door and allowed Brown in........... Unelected once.
Due to Labour's Devolution policy, which has given a parliament or assembly to three parts of the UK (Scotland, Wales and N.Ireland) But has steadfastly ignored the existence of England. Gordon Brown, elected as an MP for Kircaldy and Cowdenbeath, by Scottish voters, now has only approx. 30% of policy control over his homeland. Yet he retains 100% of policy control over England. Despite the fact no English voter has ever voted for him.......Unelected twice.
BFR I know it is difficult to ignore his rants but you are never going to have a reasoned argument with Goonie. Best to let him bang away on his keyboard and just not rise to it!
As mentioned earlier we don't elect a leader we elect a party.
Shame Mrs Thatcher's goverment reacted to late to advoid a war. David Owen did (1977) but no one cares to remember that. I had friend in the navy in that war, if people could see what happened to that 20 year old they might have wished we'd tried harder ealier with a show of force rather than an all out war with Argentina.
The Falklands war was started by General Galtieri of Argentina. He was a fascist dictator with many problems in his homeland. So he decided to revive Argentina's claim to the Falklands, with a military invasion. This he hoped would unite his country behind him.
We (Britain) did not start that war. British forces led by Mrs Thatcher, reclaimed the islands. Her actions were completely justified and i thank her for them.
...........
Another Thatcher screw-up.
In a cost saving move she took the Royal Naval ship that was defending the Falklands away leaving Galtieri to try his luck and with nothing and no one to stop him, why not.
A bit like leaving your front door wide open and then complaining about thieves and then acting the hero afterwards. She then ordered the Belgrano to be torpedoed while negotiations were on going, a supine media then allowed Thatcher to milk it for all iy was worth, but bear in mind that a lot of brave people on both sides died in a very avoidable war.