Sith Efrika

Covered End

Now I could research this but can't be arsed.

So, it is my impression that the majority of the Sith Efrikan football players and supporters are black.

Yet, the majority of Sith Efrikan rugby & cricket players and supporters are white.

Am I correct and if so why is this ?

I'm assuming it's mainly to do with finance/schooling with rugby & cricket being the upper most sports at predominately "white" schools. If they exist.

However, I'm probably way off the mark, so please enlighten me.

Sussex_Addick

Divide between poor and rich I guess. There's a not too dissimilar divide between the sports in Britain, it's just that in South Africa a divide between poor and rich means one between black and white.

How many middle class footballers are there? And how many working class cricketers? So yeah, money innit

Airman Brown

True, but the majority of South Africans who have played for Charlton were white.

nolly

there a crud team.

C.Walsh'sLoveChild

I watched a documentary a couple years back (which means it is indeed a FACT) about Ajax scouts in south africa. The exact same thing was said about the rich/poor, white/black, cricket-rugby/football.
Basically what sussex addict said but most definitely without the "innit"

adamtheaddick

Kaka comes from a very rich family.

Sussex_Addick

[cite]Posted By: C.Walsh'sLoveChild[/cite]
Basically what sussex addict said but most definitely without the "innit"

Sorry, I use it in a post-ironic way. Probably.

IA

[cite]Posted By: adamtheaddick[/cite]Kaka comes from a very rich family.

The exception that proves the rule.

se9addick

[cite]Posted By: IA[/cite]

[cite]Posted By: adamtheaddick[/cite]Kaka comes from a very rich family.

The exception that proves the rule.

So does Mido - he said something to effect of "I'm happy to play for £1k a week as my family's so rich" but probably a bit more eloquent than that.

I think during the aparthied football was considered a "black" sport, rugby was for Afrikaaners and cricket was for the ethnic Anglo-Saxon population and those sterotypes will probably take a couple of generations to overcome.

Is Shaun Bartlett the only black South-African we've had ?

Henry Irving

In "Madiba Boys" by Graeme Freidman Mark Fish explains how difficult it was for him, as a poor white boy, to be allowed to play the "black" game of soccer. His schools and school masters all thought he should play rugger.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Madibas-Boys-Stories-Lucas-Radebe/dp/1871204224/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1276760286&sr=1-1

Football in SA has always been played by black africans and white African but the Afrikaners generally preferred Rugby.

On Robben Island the inmates set up a football league, following exactly FIFA rules to the extend of sending each other letters requesting games when the person was in the next cell

http://www.amazon.co.uk/More-Than-Just-Game-Apartheid/dp/0007278799

Red_in_SE8

This world cup was supposed to be a show case for post apartheid South Africa. The more I see and read about the living conditions that the vast majority of black South Africans still have to endure (40% of the population live on the equivalent of £1.35 a day), compared to the wealth still enjoyed by the affluent white communities in the big cities, I wonder has apartheid really ended. I find this more disappointing than a lot of the football that has been played so far.

JollyRobin

[cite]Posted By: Red_in_SE8[/cite]This world cup was supposed to be a show case for post apartheid South Africa. The more I see and read about the living conditions that the vast majority of black South Africans still have to endure (40% of the population live on the equivalent of £1.35 a day), compared to the wealth still enjoyed by the affluent white communities in the big cities, I wonder has apartheid really ended. I find this more disappointing than a lot of the football that has been played so far.

The thing with ending apartheid was never about making the white people poorer or suffer. Mandela knew that South Africa needed the wealth of the white man in order for the country to survive, that's why he fought to hard not only against the oppressive authorities but also the extremist 'black nationalist element' (I used that phrase loosely) within the ANC.

When I visited South Africa a lot of the people told me that things were improving in the townships. They now had electricity, the amount clean water was beginning to improve and on the outskirts whole area's were being rebuilt, albeit slowly. The problem though is the high levels of crime, and the costs that are incurred by this - which is substantially more than what it was under apartheid due to the apartheid government seeking to simply route out and imprison/shoot wrong-doers as opposed to tackling the causes. Obviously these costs divert financial support from where it is needed most. Everyone I met seemed to agree that these things would take time.

WasCharleyOne

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Madibas-Boys-Stories-Lucas-Radebe/dp/1871204224/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1276760286&sr=1-1

"the Word Cup" - didn't know Fish played Scrabble

Covered End

Thanks for that everyone - pretty much what I thought.

Questions 2&3

If 40% of the population live on £1.35 a day according to Red in SE8 - How much are the match tickets then ? How do they afford them ?

Henry Irving

that still leaves 60% who have more plus I suspect they have given away a few freebies.

Covered End

I know they have given away a few freebies, but not 40,000 freebies :-)


Anyway, how much are the tickets ? Anyone ?

se9addick

I think locals have/had the oppertunity to buy them for £16 through branches of the country's national bank - so about 12 times their daily living allowance.

How much do people "live on a day" in the UK out of interest ? Never really understood that phrase.

24 Red

I have a hypothesis that the reason England underachieves in football is because the talent pool is drawn only from the working class, whereas in other countries it is more normal for middle or upper class people to also take it up as a profession, hence a larger, more diverse talent pool. The same point in reverse would apply to tennis, which only attracts the middle classes. Kaka and Mido support the hypothesis but I've never been bothered to try to verify or falsify it.

ColinTat

I'd think you'd find 24 red that the countries that succeed are the one's that have large talent pools; often within the poorest sections of society, though not necessarily with regards to West Germany and Holland. I think it's more telling that Brazil a country of 200 million has roughly 40 million under the poverty line. Forty million who have little hope of legitimately improving their life but through football. It's a bit of a motivator. Whereas 20 million who are the richest 10% I'd bet have substantially produced much less of the talent pool.

For every Kaka and Socrates, how many Peles, Garincha, Ronaldo, Careca, Ronaldo and Robinhos?

More likely that with the working class being raised out of abject poverty in the last thirty-forty years, street footballers aren't around anymore. It's not so much where the footballer comes from but how large your talent pool is.

Interestingly in the UK football and rugby was a much more mixed class sport pre WW1. Many schools with pretensions of making 'middle class boys' took up Rugby post WW1.

RedZed333

NMW in UK is £5.85...

If you were to compare major tournament ticket prices available to the 'real' working class of the UK they wouldn't be a lot different to those in Sith Afrike...

24 Red

[cite]Posted By: ColinTat[/cite]I'd think you'd find 24 red that the countries that succeed are the one's that have large talent pools; often within the poorest sections of society, though not necessarily with regards to West Germany and Holland.

Italy, France, Argentina, Spain - all similar sized populations to England. Spain may not be a good example because of their history of underachieving. Whether that is down to political issues is another debate.