[cite]Posted By: LawrieAbrahams[/cite]It is still cheating whether it is seen or not. Otherwise if you get caught cheating at cards it would no longer be cheating because you got caught. He gained an unfair advantage by handling the ball, i.e. a penalty instead of a goal and in one sense he did get away with it because Ghana missed.
That said, any player in the World Cup would have done exactly the same.
Except our players would have flapped at it and missed. Gerrard would have claimed his best cheating is done when he plays in position at liverpool and cole and terry would claim they were over tired from all the cheating they'd done over last season.
[cite]Posted By: ThreadKiller[/cite]it was a teffific save,a bit unsporting but you do what you have to do in the last seconds of a huge game like this. if it was someone like chris powell doing it for us,well...
Bartlet did the same for us against Spurs (if any of us can remember back that far).
Dont remember calls for penalty goals or 2 match bans then.
Good game for the neutral, Uruaguy will not beat the Dutch nor would Ghana.
And most of us said that the Dutch wouldn't beat Brazil...
[cite]Posted By: LawrieAbrahams[/cite]It is still cheating whether it is seen or not. Otherwise if you get caught cheating at cards it would no longer be cheating because you got caught. He gained an unfair advantage by handling the ball, i.e. a penalty instead of a goal and in one sense he did get away with it because Ghana missed.
That said, any player in the World Cup would have done exactly the same.
Except our players would have flapped at it and missed. Gerrard would have claimed his best cheating is done when he plays in position at liverpool and cole and terry would claim they were over tired from all the cheating they'd done over last season.
Heskey wouldve somehow managed to use his head and put it wide
[cite]Posted By: Rothko[/cite]If a Charlton player did that in the 90th minute to get a result, I'll buy them a pint and pat them on the back.
Exactly.
Had he not done it, then he would no doubt been criticised for not taking a red card for the team and country.
It is the same principle of a player getting booked for deliberately tripping someone on the counterattack - as Racon should have done at Swindon in the play-offs, and Barry or Johnson against Germany.
[cite]Posted By: guinnessaddick[/cite]He took one for the team. He tried to cheat, got caught and got sent off. I only one who thought that the No. 10 from Ghana came back from an offside to head the ball just before the first goal line clearance.
No guinness, so did I, I just wasn't sure it counted what with all that "phases of play" bollocks.
The only reason why it's been made such a big deal is because the team that suffered was Ghana, the last remaining African team in the first world cup in Africa and apparently the whole world except Uruguayans wanted Ghana to win...apparently Ghana winning would've been the best for the world cup, Ghana were apparently the most exciting team in the world cup, they deserved the win, they deserved everything, blah blah blah.
If Ghana had done that to Uruguay there wouldn't be half as much reaction to it.
The rules are the rules and they were applied. They shouldn't be changed retrospectively just to punish Suarez more.
What FIFA should be concentrating on is improving the standard of refereeing to reduce the catalogue of errors that have been made during this world cup - the missed Uruguay penalty claim and Fabregas' penalty claim last night being two clear examples!
I really do not see it as cheating. It was a calculated risk, and it this case it paid off for the team not for the player, he misses playing in a WC semi.
No Laws in fooball need to be changed and we DO NOT need video evidence for anything. What we need is more refs stamping down on pulling and tugging in the penalty box.
It's cheating but has a touch of self sacrifice about it compared to some sort of slippery deception.
Like when Llera brought down the Swindon player in the play off semi. It's less trying to con the ref and more so blatent that it's pretty much accepting the punishment as a trade off for the act.
Not quite in the league as the Henry one where he deliberately sets out to (and indeed needs to) con the ref and get off scot free.
The criticism for Ghana's failure to capitalise on the incident should also be aimed at Adiyiah of Ghana who headed the ball at Suarez from about 6 yards out, with the goalie nowhere the ball shouldn't have been headed directly at the Uruguayan, better placement with what was largely an open net would have resulted in a goal. His poor header gave Suarez the chance to make the save.
Glad Uruguay got through - I like them as a team, Forlan has been outstanding all tournament.
[cite]Posted By: Oakster[/cite]The criticism for Ghana's failure to capitalise on the incident should also be aimed at Adiyiah of Ghana who headed the ball at Suarez from about 6 yards out, with the goalie nowhere the ball shouldn't have been headed directly at the Uruguayan, better placement with what was largely an open net would have resulted in a goal. His poor header gave Suarez the chance to make the save.
That made me laugh. A bit like criticising Lampard for not keeping his shot down.
To the original question - no, red card and a sending off are sufficient. Any pro would have done what Suarez did. If it happened in the third minute nobody would have said anything about it. I don't think anyone wants to have rules based on the knee jerk reactions of daft sports journalists or punishments that vary at different times of the game. Consistency is what's needed.
[cite]Posted By: Oakster[/cite]The criticism for Ghana's failure to capitalise on the incident should also be aimed at Adiyiah of Ghana who headed the ball at Suarez from about 6 yards out, with the goalie nowhere the ball shouldn't have been headed directly at the Uruguayan, better placement with what was largely an open net would have resulted in a goal. His poor header gave Suarez the chance to make the save.
That made me laugh. A bit like criticising Lampard for not keeping his shot down.
To the original question - no, red card and a sending off are sufficient. Any pro would have done what Suarez did. If it happened in the third minute nobody would have said anything about it. I don't think anyone wants to have rules based on the knee jerk reactions of daft sports journalists or punishments that vary at different times of the game. Consistency is what's needed.
Agree with Morti. Bit like criticising a forward for running too near a defender so allowing themselves to be brought down for a pen.
[cite]Posted By: Oakster[/cite]The criticism for Ghana's failure to capitalise on the incident should also be aimed at Adiyiah of Ghana who headed the ball at Suarez from about 6 yards out, with the goalie nowhere the ball shouldn't have been headed directly at the Uruguayan, better placement with what was largely an open net would have resulted in a goal. His poor header gave Suarez the chance to make the save.
That made me laugh. A bit like criticising Lampard for not keeping his shot down.
To the original question - no, red card and a sending off are sufficient. Any pro would have done what Suarez did. If it happened in the third minute nobody would have said anything about it. I don't think anyone wants to have rules based on the knee jerk reactions of daft sports journalists or punishments that vary at different times of the game. Consistency is what's needed.
I would have done the same playing for my school 35 years ago
[cite]Posted By: Oakster[/cite]The criticism for Ghana's failure to capitalise on the incident should also be aimed at Adiyiah of Ghana who headed the ball at Suarez from about 6 yards out, with the goalie nowhere the ball shouldn't have been headed directly at the Uruguayan, better placement with what was largely an open net would have resulted in a goal. His poor header gave Suarez the chance to make the save.
That made me laugh. A bit like criticising Lampard for not keeping his shot down.
To the original question - no, red card and a sending off are sufficient. Any pro would have done what Suarez did. If it happened in the third minute nobody would have said anything about it. I don't think anyone wants to have rules based on the knee jerk reactions of daft sports journalists or punishments that vary at different times of the game. Consistency is what's needed.
Agree with Morti. Bit like criticising a forward for running too near a defender so allowing themselves to be brought down for a pen.
My point is that Suarez could also have headed it away, it wasn't as if he jumped up & tipped it over - it wasn't that good an effort on goal given how close he was.
Agree with that - especially when it would be given if the offence prevents a goal that would have PROBABLY otherwise have been scored. Offences that denying obvious goalscoring opportunities would still get a red card.
Agree with that - especially when it would be given if the offence prevents a goal that would have PROBABLY otherwise have been scored. Offences that denying obvious goalscoring opportunities would still get a red card.
The problem is, who makes that judgement? Referees are under enough pressure already. Not all cases will be as clear cut as in the World Cup, and how long before someone gets a decision wrong?
I don't think that a goal should be awarded unless the ball has crossed the line. But I'm all in favour of harsher penalties for blatant cheating. I also think the powers that be should have the opportunity after the match to take the situation into account when deciding on a ban. For example, if Suarez had done it in the first minute, maybe the red card and automatic ban would be punishment enough. But he knew exactly what he was doing at the end of the match, and, arguably, should have been banned for the rest of the tournament.
i think the problem with Dalglish is that he'd rather be considered a twat by everyone else and keep his relationship with liverpool than end up losing his "king kenny" status and just be honest.
Comments
Except our players would have flapped at it and missed. Gerrard would have claimed his best cheating is done when he plays in position at liverpool and cole and terry would claim they were over tired from all the cheating they'd done over last season.
Players try to con referees for advantage and get fellow professionals booked or sent off.
Suarez's example was a blatant and not particularly edifying example of the cheating cancer that permeates the game.
However why should he be punished more than any other player for doing what they all do, namely cheat?
Not me.
Holland v germany final.
Heskey wouldve somehow managed to use his head and put it wide
Exactly.
Had he not done it, then he would no doubt been criticised for not taking a red card for the team and country.
It is the same principle of a player getting booked for deliberately tripping someone on the counterattack - as Racon should have done at Swindon in the play-offs, and Barry or Johnson against Germany.
If Ghana had done that to Uruguay there wouldn't be half as much reaction to it.
The rules are the rules and they were applied. They shouldn't be changed retrospectively just to punish Suarez more.
What FIFA should be concentrating on is improving the standard of refereeing to reduce the catalogue of errors that have been made during this world cup - the missed Uruguay penalty claim and Fabregas' penalty claim last night being two clear examples!
No Laws in fooball need to be changed and we DO NOT need video evidence for anything. What we need is more refs stamping down on pulling and tugging in the penalty box.
Like when Llera brought down the Swindon player in the play off semi. It's less trying to con the ref and more so blatent that it's pretty much accepting the punishment as a trade off for the act.
Not quite in the league as the Henry one where he deliberately sets out to (and indeed needs to) con the ref and get off scot free.
The Henry incident against Ireland was cheating because he gained a clear advantage by knowingly breaking the rules of the game.
Glad Uruguay got through - I like them as a team, Forlan has been outstanding all tournament.
To the original question - no, red card and a sending off are sufficient. Any pro would have done what Suarez did. If it happened in the third minute nobody would have said anything about it. I don't think anyone wants to have rules based on the knee jerk reactions of daft sports journalists or punishments that vary at different times of the game. Consistency is what's needed.
It was penalized as per other fouls in the penalty area and the player was punished as per the laws.
Anyone would do the same - good luck to him!
Agree with Morti. Bit like criticising a forward for running too near a defender so allowing themselves to be brought down for a pen.
I would have done the same playing for my school 35 years ago
My point is that Suarez could also have headed it away, it wasn't as if he jumped up & tipped it over - it wasn't that good an effort on goal given how close he was.
Handball or header?
Slapped it in, then chased and berated the ref for disallowing it! He's quite an unlikeable chap, isn't he?
Disagree. If the ball hasn't crossed the line then it's not a goal. Penalty and sending off.
I don't think that a goal should be awarded unless the ball has crossed the line. But I'm all in favour of harsher penalties for blatant cheating. I also think the powers that be should have the opportunity after the match to take the situation into account when deciding on a ban. For example, if Suarez had done it in the first minute, maybe the red card and automatic ban would be punishment enough. But he knew exactly what he was doing at the end of the match, and, arguably, should have been banned for the rest of the tournament.