[cite]Posted By: adrian[/cite]Remember our following when we were offered free travel to Vale Park, Goodison and Ewood Park !
offer free travel and suddenly everyone can make it come hell or high water.
If there is something "on" a game then people will make more effort and perhaps take the family as a treat.
Then you get complaints because, despite being loyal season ticket holders in many cases, regular away fans regard them as "the wrong type" of fan because they don't get drunk, stand up and abuse anybody that politely asks them to sit down. The debates on here in the aftermath of Watford away and Gillingham away are two examples of that.
The truth of the matter is that nobody will ever be satisfied when it comes to away games. The turnout is either considered to be derisory in terms of numbers or the behaviour isn't "Millwall" enough when we do fill the away end!
nice to see another article on here. In interesting opinion piece and it is generating some good comment.
Personally i hate the term plastic. Probably because I am one. I don't go to away games, very rarely have and i doubt that will change much in the future. I've been to a few and enjoy them and would encourage anyone who can to give it a go.
In fact I rarely go to home games anymore. Had a season ticket up until we went down from the championship, entirely conincidental as even if that season had ended up with a return to the premiership i would have stopped my season ticket.
personally i would be interested in the impact of season ticket holding on away attendances (and also on the low attendances for anything other than big cup games). I have long thought that having a season ticket makes it harder for fans to get up and go to away games and cup games. since you get out of the habit of phoning the club or going down there to get your tickets.
Part of me envies those who have the time/money/desire to go to all games home and away, but another part of me pities them for what is some kind of obsession that has, i've no doubt, cost them relationships and family arguments in the past.
Wife, daughter, mortgage, bills = cant go every away game. Will do 5-6 this year, same as last. Financially it is a sacrifice for me to go away.
Agree with off_it and will hold my tongue re: CafcAndy's interpretation of me and many others.
I've done my time, 1990 - 2000 I rarely missed an away game. 2 years an away season ticket holder. Not sure what the Charlton age range is, but I know an awful lot of people who are in the same position as me.
Because we feel that financially our families and or bills are a priority doesnt make us passionless.
As far as I'm concerned I look at the fixture list at the start of the season and pick out half a dozen away games I want to go to and budget accordingly. If I have a good month and have a little bit spare I might do an extra unplanned game but generally I'm not too bothered if I can't make certain matches. Everyone does what they can to support the club whether it's coming to one game a year or all of them.
Generally our away support is good for the size of club we have been and what we are now. I've been around loads of Boro and Sunderland fans this weekend, clubs that tend to take larger numbers away whatever division they're in, but there's plenty of people in the North East who are really struggling and there is a knock on effect at the grounds. Boro had their lowest home attendance for ages last week. I don't know what the answer is from the club's perspective, but it doesn't make people any less of a fan if they can't find the means to go week-in, week out.
[cite]Posted By: RodneyCharltonTrotta[/cite]Kigelia, by "plastic" I mean the corporate, replica shirt wearing Man utd arm chair "fan" from Surrey.
Dont think anyone other than those handful who only watched Charlton in the prem and havent been since could be anywhere nearthat description! ;-)
not a problem. I still dislike the term even for those who only see their team with their butt cheeks wedged between the cushions of dfs' finest. As a namby pamby liberal i find labels a simplistic way of misunderstanding people.
[cite]Posted By: RodneyCharltonTrotta[/cite]Kigelia, by "plastic" I mean the corporate, replica shirt wearing Man utd arm chair "fan" from Surrey.
Dont think anyone other than those handful who only watched Charlton in the prem and havent been since could be anywhere nearthat description! ;-)
not a problem. I still dislike the term even for those who only see their team with their butt cheeks wedged between the cushions of dfs' finest. As a namby pamby liberal i find labels a simplistic way of misunderstanding people.
done my time in oohaahs era,just done a 85 hour week,this time of the year other priorities.But will do about 6/7 this year when things calm down.Was in work at 5 this morning to do another 5 hours while missus and kids were a sleep so i could spend rest of the day with them and will do the same in the morning.
[cite]Posted By: northstandsteve[/cite]done my time in oohaahs era,just done a 85 hour week,this time of the year other priorities.But will do about 6/7 this year when things calm down.Was in work at 5 this morning to do another 5 hours while missus and kids were a sleep so i could spend rest of the day with them and will do the same in the morning.
After 4 consecutive wins last year, we took 399 to Tranmere. After 2 wins and a draw this year we took 405 to Huddersfield. Says alot about the time of year.
Did all my away travelling when I was young, single, living at home and had plenty of disposable income. As others have said; with age comes responsibilities and family demands takes priority; so away games are fewer and further between. One could ask why we cannot attract more of the "young singles" to swell our away numbers? I would have thought for example that 7 years in the Prem might have made up at least some way for the generation of fans we lost in exile? The numbers don't seem to bear that out.
For my own part, living in Poole makes even home games hard on the pocket!
Another thing is the supposed contrast between support now and in the "old" days. Superficially, to me it seems that it was comparatively much cheaper for the working man to follow football back then. I sometimes wonder how your average Joe manages to follow football at all these days.
I'd love for someone with more intelligence and knowledge than me to enlighten me as to the changes in the socio-economic make-up of the punters that follow Charlton and/or League football in general over the last 50/60 years.
Six-a-bag.....sure one of the fan surveys a few years back showed that we had a high percentage of supporters in 30k-35k earnings bracket and also a high number saying they had young children. I am in the top end of that bracket and on months with overtime exceed it, however I struggle to find the money to pay for away games. Simple fact is, my daughter isnt going without so I can go to Hartlepool!
God knows how premier league fans with families afford away days!
[cite]Posted By: Clem_Snide[/cite]After 4 consecutive wins last year, we took 399 to Tranmere. After 2 wins and a draw this year we took 405 to Huddersfield. Says alot about the time of year.
A small part of the reason is that neither ground are easily accessed by train. Last year for Tranmere a number of changes had to be made & for Hudds you have to go to Sheffield or Manchester & then change. Won't make a great deal of difference, but doesn't help.
[cite]RCT said[/cite]The difference from those days and now are that back then is that those scarcest of commodities, time and money, are actually rarer now for many than in days gone by.
First of all I don't want you to think I dug this information out just to make your comments look unreal, social science is one of my pet subjects and when you made those comments I just couldn't help poo-pooing them, I know I went about it the wrong way so again I apologise...
Of course most stats can be interpreted in many ways to suit many arguments but some basic 'facts' would indicate more time and money is spent on football than ever before...
The average wage in 1950 was £7.08p, in 2007 it had risen to £549.80 Average wages
Match admission prices in the 1950s average 2/- (10p)
Match admission prices in 2007 averaged £35
The percentage of wages spent on football in 1950 was 1.41%
The percentage of wages spent on football in 2007 was 6.37%
That’s almost 5% increase of gross earnings being spent on football over the past 50 years...
As for time being scarcer today, in 1950 the holiday entitlement was two weeks, in many industries and for many women this was unpaid or didn't even exist, nowadays the holiday entitlement is 5.4 weeks paid regardless of job or gender, and that doesn’t include the 8 bank holidays, only 4 in the 1950s, so in real terms holiday free time has almost doubled...
When you take into account the implementation of recent European Time Directive that forbids employers from forcing employees to work over their contacted hours, (currently an average of 37.5 hour per week compared to 44 hours in the 50's) you can again see fans have a lot more 'disposable' free time on their hands which, if the increase in football attendances are to be believed, they are spending at football matches...
It’s also a myth that all those cloth capped supporters from the Pathe films were from the working class, football is, and always has been, primary a spectator sport aimed at the skilled working and lower-middle classes, admission prices were once deliberately set at a high price in an attempt to dissuade the ‘rowdier element’ from the terraces. Major heavy industries were also encouraged to resist trade union calls to end working the full Saturday as part of the normal working week for the same reason. (Dave Russell: Football and the English: A Social History of Association Football in England (1997))
In essence much more money is spent on football and fans have a lot more time to do it in...
[cite]Posted By: RedZed333[/cite]
In essence much more money is spent on football and fans have a lot more time to do it in...
I would agree with that, without even looking at the stats.
Differences are, imho, that
(a) although football costs more than it did people still lap it up because they have access to credit that they would never have had before (and that's a different story!) and don;'t really think twice about racking up debt; and
(b) the perception is that people have less time, when in fact they just waste most of the free time that they do have watching crud on the TV like (insert the name of the worst TV show you know here).
The cost of away games is certainly a key factor in deciding to attend, but why is it that most of you travel by train, which costs much more than the reasonably-priced coaches now provided by the club ?
[cite]Posted By: RedZed333[/cite]
In essence much more money is spent on football and fans have a lot more time to do it in...
I would agree with that, without even looking at the stats.
Differences are, imho, that
(a) although football costs more than it did people still lap it up because they have access to credit that they would never have had before (and that's a different story!) and don;'t really think twice about racking up debt;
When you add that practically all the Premier clubs and many of the 'bigger clubs' have their own credit cards with its own 'loyalty points' scheme for club based products like season tickets, it's not very difficult to see how easy it is for fans to get into debt...
I don't have any facts or figures to prove it but I'd be surprised if any club ever asked their supporter if they could really afford the credit card repayments when buying their annual season ticket...
[cite]Posted By: adrian[/cite]The cost of away games is certainly a key factor in deciding to attend, but why is it that most of you travel by train, which costs much more than
the reasonably-priced coaches now provided by the club ?
1) Can't drink
2) No flexibility regarding where to get picked up from
3) No flexibility in timing.
For many people the game isnt just the 90mins on the pitch, it's the travelling with a few cans, pub before the game, pub after and then the journey back home, on the supporters coach you simply cannot do this, you arrive at the ground 30mins or so before the game (unless the flid driver gets lost, then who know what time you'll arrive (as per man city away in our relegation season, last time I ever get on one of them coaches)) and then your straight back home after the end of the game, it's just not everyones cup of tea.
I'd also argue the fact that the coach is much much cheaper, especially if you book your trains well enough in advance deals are there to be had!
[cite]Posted By: RedZed333[/cite]I don't have any facts or figures to prove it but I'd be surprised if any club ever asked their supporter if they could really afford the credit card repayments when buying their annual season ticket...
Why should they? Surely thats the customers responsibility, not the clubs, imagine the uproar if fans where refused season tickets on the basis that they might not be able to make the payments? If a finance company is willing to lend them the money, thats between the person and the finanace company and has sod all to do with the club.
[cite]Posted By: adrian[/cite]The cost of away games is certainly a key factor in deciding to attend, but why is it that most of you travel by train, which costs much more than
the reasonably-priced coaches now provided by the club ?
1) Can't drink
2) No flexibility regarding where to get picked up from
3) No flexibility in timing.
For many people the game isnt just the 90mins on the pitch, it's the travelling with a few cans, pub before the game, pub after and then the journey back home, on the supporters coach you simply cannot do this, you arrive at the ground 30mins or so before the game (unless the flid driver gets lost, then who know what time you'll arrive (as per man city away in our relegation season, last time I ever get on one of them coaches)) and then your straight back home after the end of the game, it's just not everyones cup of tea.
I'd also argue the fact that the coach is much much cheaper, especially if you book your trains well enough in advance deals are there to be had!
I can't argue with this except for the word "flid". You are probably too young to remember the thalidomide scandal where children were born without arms and legs because their mothers were given the drug by their GP. The word "flid" is a corruption of the drug's name. It is not nice to see it being used again, even in ignorance of its origins.
I think to state that football attendances have dropped simply because of costs is a little short-sighted. Society as a whole has changed massivley since the attendance hay-days of the 50s. Men have a bigger role in bringing up the children andfor many it would simply not be acceptable for the male to disapear every Saturday. Also the options for people to supprt have changed. You can be an avid support of a team and never go to matches because of the large amount of media you can consume. H&S also means you wouldn't get 80,000 cramed into a ground that now holds 40,000.
Money is an issue, but only part of a much larger social shift.
Simply reducing all the ticket prices / merchandise would still not bring back crowds of yester-year.
I don't agree with all of the article and most of the points have already been discussed.
However one demographic doesn't seem to have been covered is woman.
More woman now attend football (18% in the prem in 2006) than previously. Of course women and girls have always gone but it now seems they do in greater numbers. Research says that this is due to better faculties esp the view and less fear of violence.
I would suggest that it is now also more socially acceptable for women to both like and attend football that it was in the 70s and 80s.
In a similar way although football was far more class-less than say Rugby (football avoided the Amateur/middle class v professional/working class split that occurred in rugger in 1895 although there were the same tensions) there was a view that Football was "lower" class and it was not seen an acceptable sport by many in schools and elsewhere.
Neither was football "cool" in the way it is now.
So football is now drawing from a bigger pool of people that includesmore women and more middle class people so is able to draw higher crowds to the new of refurbished stadiums that now hold more people, more comfortably than they did than in the past.
And while the role of women in society and football has changed considerable so has that of men. Saying you were not going to football to spend time with the kids would have brought derision down upon you in many "traditional" football areas.
On another point, agree with Better Red, not a nice word to use Stu although as BRTD says at 24 you are perhaps far too young to remember it's origins. As a kid in the 60s I and all my mates used Phlid, Mong and Spas all time time. Thankfully things have moved on since then.
Seriously, you kinda beat me to it. I was going to post that more families seem to attend matches now than ever before....especially now we have all seater stadiums.
Mum, Dad and 2.4 kiddies means a hefty bill for the day's entertainment at away grounds on top of the 4 season tickets they invariably buy each season.
5.1 Not all men welcomed this apparent growth in the number of female fans at football, often seeing it as an 'invasion' of their leisure space. Women supporters tended to be stereotyped as 'middle class', and thus obviously ignorant of the game. Fishwick (1989, p.57)
Well done to the 450 that went to Huddersfield and supported Charlton.
Well done to the thousands that didn't go to Huddersfield but still supported Charlton either via the radio, CAFC player, Soccer saturday or whatever way to keep informed of how our team done.
There, Whats the difference? We were all just as gutted at the final score.
[cite]Posted By: CafcAndy[/cite] We just don't have enough young live at home singles i guess..
That's the point you should have made to start with imo, rather than implying than anyone who doesn't go to many away games, including those with families or careers, lacks passion.
Back in the good old days there was no TV coverage outside the top division, and almost no live games. That's been the key change IMO. When I first came to London and adoptd Charlton it cost £8, but crowds were significantly lower. Before that the first season ticket that I bought (for Partick) cost £30 and the crowds were dreadful.
Over the period that the Premiership has been in place a number of clubs have increased their capacity - attendances are 66% higher. I'm not completely convinced that if you were looking at a lower mid table game from the 50s that there were particularly amazing crowds then either, but I don't really know.
I think a couple of 'big picture' issues so far haven't been covered, and in my opinion go a long way to explaining why our away attendances are not in line with our home crowds.
1. Our club, The Valley, home games etc has been extensively (and successfully) marketed since our return in 1992 on the family issue. The club have done so well in getting bodies through the turnstiles in creating a safe, well priced, family orientated environment, and as a result i would expect the percentage of families regularly attending The Valley to be far greater than most other clubs. By nature, to those people a nice afternoon out every fortnight is commitment enough, they will have less interest in actively following the day to day aspects of the clubs like those of us on here do (the total amount of Charlton fans active on all websites is a lot lower than other comparative clubs), and they equally have less interest in both devoting more time to their 'hobby' than they currently do, or the desire to travel further and pay extra to do it. Those with active family involvement are also likely to have a lot other things to balance.
You can look at it as that we have a poor take up in away support in comparison to our home one, or you could equally look at the fact that we are very successful in getting more bodies through our home turnstiles than perhaps the size of our 'core support' would suggest.
2. By nature of where we are situated, it is extremely rare if the core of your group of friends, or even family, all support Charlton. The majority of us will have our circle of friends probably split between 7 or 8 clubs (Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea, Liverpool, Man U, Wham, Millwall the most obvious). I think this is much less likely to be the case in somewhere like Huddersfield for example, and even if people in Huddersfield do primarily follow other bigger clubs (Leeds, Man U etc), they by nature of their town identity are more likely to have a greater affiliation with their local club, and be more likely to go on 'away days out' with their mates who do actively follow HTFC.
3. To a lesser extent, with the infrastructure we have here in the South East, there are a lot more leisure opportunities available to us than in any other area of the country.
In summary, i think the 'derision' of our away followings is completely overstated. last season we averaged away followings of 1,418 which only Leeds, Norwich and Southampton bettered (Huddersfield by comparison was 1,148).
So we do have fans willing to travel. The difference is, and mainly based from Point 1, is that our fanbase is much more likely to pick and choose which ones they go to than maybe some other clubs fanbases.
Comments
If there is something "on" a game then people will make more effort and perhaps take the family as a treat.
Then you get complaints because, despite being loyal season ticket holders in many cases, regular away fans regard them as "the wrong type" of fan because they don't get drunk, stand up and abuse anybody that politely asks them to sit down. The debates on here in the aftermath of Watford away and Gillingham away are two examples of that.
The truth of the matter is that nobody will ever be satisfied when it comes to away games. The turnout is either considered to be derisory in terms of numbers or the behaviour isn't "Millwall" enough when we do fill the away end!
Can't win!
Personally i hate the term plastic. Probably because I am one. I don't go to away games, very rarely have and i doubt that will change much in the future. I've been to a few and enjoy them and would encourage anyone who can to give it a go.
In fact I rarely go to home games anymore. Had a season ticket up until we went down from the championship, entirely conincidental as even if that season had ended up with a return to the premiership i would have stopped my season ticket.
personally i would be interested in the impact of season ticket holding on away attendances (and also on the low attendances for anything other than big cup games). I have long thought that having a season ticket makes it harder for fans to get up and go to away games and cup games. since you get out of the habit of phoning the club or going down there to get your tickets.
Part of me envies those who have the time/money/desire to go to all games home and away, but another part of me pities them for what is some kind of obsession that has, i've no doubt, cost them relationships and family arguments in the past.
Agree with off_it and will hold my tongue re: CafcAndy's interpretation of me and many others.
I've done my time, 1990 - 2000 I rarely missed an away game. 2 years an away season ticket holder. Not sure what the Charlton age range is, but I know an awful lot of people who are in the same position as me.
Because we feel that financially our families and or bills are a priority doesnt make us passionless.
As far as I'm concerned I look at the fixture list at the start of the season and pick out half a dozen away games I want to go to and budget accordingly. If I have a good month and have a little bit spare I might do an extra unplanned game but generally I'm not too bothered if I can't make certain matches. Everyone does what they can to support the club whether it's coming to one game a year or all of them.
Generally our away support is good for the size of club we have been and what we are now. I've been around loads of Boro and Sunderland fans this weekend, clubs that tend to take larger numbers away whatever division they're in, but there's plenty of people in the North East who are really struggling and there is a knock on effect at the grounds. Boro had their lowest home attendance for ages last week. I don't know what the answer is from the club's perspective, but it doesn't make people any less of a fan if they can't find the means to go week-in, week out.
Dont think anyone other than those handful who only watched Charlton in the prem and havent been since could be anywhere nearthat description! ;-)
not a problem. I still dislike the term even for those who only see their team with their butt cheeks wedged between the cushions of dfs' finest. As a namby pamby liberal i find labels a simplistic way of misunderstanding people.
Ha ha, fair enough!
You clearly "lack passion" Steve - like me.
Did all my away travelling when I was young, single, living at home and had plenty of disposable income.
As others have said; with age comes responsibilities and family demands takes priority; so away games are fewer and further between.
One could ask why we cannot attract more of the "young singles" to swell our away numbers?
I would have thought for example that 7 years in the Prem might have made up at least some way for the generation of fans we lost in exile?
The numbers don't seem to bear that out.
For my own part, living in Poole makes even home games hard on the pocket!
Another thing is the supposed contrast between support now and in the "old" days.
Superficially, to me it seems that it was comparatively much cheaper for the working man to follow football back then.
I sometimes wonder how your average Joe manages to follow football at all these days.
I'd love for someone with more intelligence and knowledge than me to enlighten me as to the changes in the socio-economic make-up of the punters that follow Charlton and/or League football in general over the last 50/60 years.
God knows how premier league fans with families afford away days!
A small part of the reason is that neither ground are easily accessed by train. Last year for Tranmere a number of changes had to be made & for Hudds you have to go to Sheffield or Manchester & then change. Won't make a great deal of difference, but doesn't help.
Of course most stats can be interpreted in many ways to suit many arguments but some basic 'facts' would indicate more time and money is spent on football than ever before...
The average wage in 1950 was £7.08p, in 2007 it had risen to £549.80 Average wages
Match admission prices in the 1950s average 2/- (10p)
Match admission prices in 2007 averaged £35
The percentage of wages spent on football in 1950 was 1.41%
The percentage of wages spent on football in 2007 was 6.37%
That’s almost 5% increase of gross earnings being spent on football over the past 50 years...
As for time being scarcer today, in 1950 the holiday entitlement was two weeks, in many industries and for many women this was unpaid or didn't even exist, nowadays the holiday entitlement is 5.4 weeks paid regardless of job or gender, and that doesn’t include the 8 bank holidays, only 4 in the 1950s, so in real terms holiday free time has almost doubled...
When you take into account the implementation of recent European Time Directive that forbids employers from forcing employees to work over their contacted hours, (currently an average of 37.5 hour per week compared to 44 hours in the 50's) you can again see fans have a lot more 'disposable' free time on their hands which, if the increase in football attendances are to be believed, they are spending at football matches...
It’s also a myth that all those cloth capped supporters from the Pathe films were from the working class, football is, and always has been, primary a spectator sport aimed at the skilled working and lower-middle classes, admission prices were once deliberately set at a high price in an attempt to dissuade the ‘rowdier element’ from the terraces. Major heavy industries were also encouraged to resist trade union calls to end working the full Saturday as part of the normal working week for the same reason. (Dave Russell: Football and the English: A Social History of Association Football in England (1997))
In essence much more money is spent on football and fans have a lot more time to do it in...
I would agree with that, without even looking at the stats.
Differences are, imho, that
(a) although football costs more than it did people still lap it up because they have access to credit that they would never have had before (and that's a different story!) and don;'t really think twice about racking up debt; and
(b) the perception is that people have less time, when in fact they just waste most of the free time that they do have watching crud on the TV like (insert the name of the worst TV show you know here).
the reasonably-priced coaches now provided by the club ?
I don't have any facts or figures to prove it but I'd be surprised if any club ever asked their supporter if they could really afford the credit card repayments when buying their annual season ticket...
1) Can't drink
2) No flexibility regarding where to get picked up from
3) No flexibility in timing.
For many people the game isnt just the 90mins on the pitch, it's the travelling with a few cans, pub before the game, pub after and then the journey back home, on the supporters coach you simply cannot do this, you arrive at the ground 30mins or so before the game (unless the flid driver gets lost, then who know what time you'll arrive (as per man city away in our relegation season, last time I ever get on one of them coaches)) and then your straight back home after the end of the game, it's just not everyones cup of tea.
I'd also argue the fact that the coach is much much cheaper, especially if you book your trains well enough in advance deals are there to be had!
Why should they? Surely thats the customers responsibility, not the clubs, imagine the uproar if fans where refused season tickets on the basis that they might not be able to make the payments? If a finance company is willing to lend them the money, thats between the person and the finanace company and has sod all to do with the club.
I can't argue with this except for the word "flid". You are probably too young to remember the thalidomide scandal where children were born without arms and legs because their mothers were given the drug by their GP. The word "flid" is a corruption of the drug's name. It is not nice to see it being used again, even in ignorance of its origins.
Money is an issue, but only part of a much larger social shift.
Simply reducing all the ticket prices / merchandise would still not bring back crowds of yester-year.
However one demographic doesn't seem to have been covered is woman.
More woman now attend football (18% in the prem in 2006) than previously. Of course women and girls have always gone but it now seems they do in greater numbers. Research says that this is due to better faculties esp the view and less fear of violence.
http://www.le.ac.uk/so/css/resources/factsheets/fs9.html
I would suggest that it is now also more socially acceptable for women to both like and attend football that it was in the 70s and 80s.
In a similar way although football was far more class-less than say Rugby (football avoided the Amateur/middle class v professional/working class split that occurred in rugger in 1895 although there were the same tensions) there was a view that Football was "lower" class and it was not seen an acceptable sport by many in schools and elsewhere.
Neither was football "cool" in the way it is now.
So football is now drawing from a bigger pool of people that includesmore women and more middle class people so is able to draw higher crowds to the new of refurbished stadiums that now hold more people, more comfortably than they did than in the past.
And while the role of women in society and football has changed considerable so has that of men. Saying you were not going to football to spend time with the kids would have brought derision down upon you in many "traditional" football areas.
On another point, agree with Better Red, not a nice word to use Stu although as BRTD says at 24 you are perhaps far too young to remember it's origins. As a kid in the 60s I and all my mates used Phlid, Mong and Spas all time time. Thankfully things have moved on since then.
Any way back to the article.
Seriously, you kinda beat me to it. I was going to post that more families seem to attend matches now than ever before....especially now we have all seater stadiums.
Mum, Dad and 2.4 kiddies means a hefty bill for the day's entertainment at away grounds on top of the 4 season tickets they invariably buy each season.
Well done to the thousands that didn't go to Huddersfield but still supported Charlton either via the radio, CAFC player, Soccer saturday or whatever way to keep informed of how our team done.
There, Whats the difference? We were all just as gutted at the final score.
That's the point you should have made to start with imo, rather than implying than anyone who doesn't go to many away games, including those with families or careers, lacks passion.
Over the period that the Premiership has been in place a number of clubs have increased their capacity - attendances are 66% higher. I'm not completely convinced that if you were looking at a lower mid table game from the 50s that there were particularly amazing crowds then either, but I don't really know.
I think a couple of 'big picture' issues so far haven't been covered, and in my opinion go a long way to explaining why our away attendances are not in line with our home crowds.
1. Our club, The Valley, home games etc has been extensively (and successfully) marketed since our return in 1992 on the family issue. The club have done so well in getting bodies through the turnstiles in creating a safe, well priced, family orientated environment, and as a result i would expect the percentage of families regularly attending The Valley to be far greater than most other clubs. By nature, to those people a nice afternoon out every fortnight is commitment enough, they will have less interest in actively following the day to day aspects of the clubs like those of us on here do (the total amount of Charlton fans active on all websites is a lot lower than other comparative clubs), and they equally have less interest in both devoting more time to their 'hobby' than they currently do, or the desire to travel further and pay extra to do it. Those with active family involvement are also likely to have a lot other things to balance.
You can look at it as that we have a poor take up in away support in comparison to our home one, or you could equally look at the fact that we are very successful in getting more bodies through our home turnstiles than perhaps the size of our 'core support' would suggest.
2. By nature of where we are situated, it is extremely rare if the core of your group of friends, or even family, all support Charlton. The majority of us will have our circle of friends probably split between 7 or 8 clubs (Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea, Liverpool, Man U, Wham, Millwall the most obvious). I think this is much less likely to be the case in somewhere like Huddersfield for example, and even if people in Huddersfield do primarily follow other bigger clubs (Leeds, Man U etc), they by nature of their town identity are more likely to have a greater affiliation with their local club, and be more likely to go on 'away days out' with their mates who do actively follow HTFC.
3. To a lesser extent, with the infrastructure we have here in the South East, there are a lot more leisure opportunities available to us than in any other area of the country.
In summary, i think the 'derision' of our away followings is completely overstated. last season we averaged away followings of 1,418 which only Leeds, Norwich and Southampton bettered (Huddersfield by comparison was 1,148).
So we do have fans willing to travel. The difference is, and mainly based from Point 1, is that our fanbase is much more likely to pick and choose which ones they go to than maybe some other clubs fanbases.