What English clubs are 'bigger' than Charlton?

Folev the red

It may be a bit of a pointless question, but im having a boring sunday afternoon and so i started thinking what clubs i believe to be considered 'bigger' clubs than my beloved charlton. Please bare in mind that im 16, so i've tried to form as accurate a list as possible from my limited historical knowledge of English football.

So in no particular order.....

Arsenal
Aston Villa
Chelsea
Everton
Liverpool
Manchester City
Manchester United
Newcastle United
Sunderland
Tottenham Hotspur
West Ham United
Wolverhampton Wanderers
Cardiff City
Derby County
Leeds United
Norwich City
Nottingham Forest
Sheffield United
Sheffield Wednesday

clubs that are of a similar stature to charlton:
West brom
Birmingham
Ipswich Town
Leicester City
Middlesbrough
Blackburn Rovers

Does anyone roughly agree? Have i had any shockers and who would make your list?

Redhenry

I would take Sheff U and Cardiff off of that list

IA

Bolton Wanderers
Coventry City
Leicester City
Portsmouth
Southampton
Stoke City

should all be on one or other of your lists for starters imo. A few more seasons at this level would add a few more teams to the list, just like a few years of success at Blackpool, Burnley, or Hull would put them firmly in one of the lists.

Off_it

You're right, it is a pointless question. The more relevant point is that they are all above us at the moment.

carly burn

Away following is always a good way to guage it.

agim

Who gives a shit! All I care about is us getting out of this division.

Airman Brown

.

CAFCsayer

[cite]Posted By: Folev the red[/cite]
Does anyone roughly agree?

No, Cardiff aint an english club

creepyaddick

Does that mean that after beating all the teams in your list recently (10 years) that we were definately punching above our weight?
(Excluding Man Utd)

pilchard

No way Cardiff, Sheffield United or on recent history Wolves (although overall they are a big club), Sheffield Weds have the support and stadia but as a side have never been earth shattering, Brian Clough put Forest on the map without him they are no great shakes either- ditto Derby County, I am not convinced of the Norwich claim- maybe they have had sustained periods in the top flight but so did Charlton- just at an earlier and later time. Of course it's more important where we are at the moment but I think your post is interesting Folev and a thought provoker, it's good to look at a clubs' stature and history (which after all makes us what we are).

PL54

Agim - he says he's 16 and the fourth word you utter is inappropriate.

Folev, define BIG ?!

PL54

Everything I post appears twice (still)

Help ?

ColinTat

33 1/3 %

IA

[cite]Posted By: pilchard[/cite]No way Cardiff, Sheffield United or on recent history Wolves (although overall they are a big club), Sheffield Weds have the support and stadia but as a side have never been earth shattering, Brian Clough put Forest on the map without him they are no great shakes either- ditto Derby County, I am not convinced of the Norwich claim- maybe they have had sustained periods in the top flight but so did Charlton- just at an earlier and later time. Of course it's more important where we are at the moment but I think your post is interesting Folev and a thought provoker, it's good to look at a clubs' stature and history (which after all makes us what we are).

I'd say Cardiff, Sheff Utd and Wolves get it because of their support base, rather than any particular success. Forest and even more so Derby have supports that continue to hold up despite collapses in form. Norwich and Ipswich have both had good European days, and Norwich would've qualified again but for the European ban. Actually, I'd put Ipswich in the group above us.

Turn it around. How many clubs would consider us as in the same group as them? Would Derby? Or Sheffield United? Or Middlesbrough?

The Red Robin

I would say:

Bigger than us:

Arsenal
Aston Villa
Chelsea
Everton
Liverpool
Manchester City
Manchester United
Newcastle United
Tottenham Hotspur
West Ham United
Wolverhampton Wanderers
Derby County
Leeds United
Nottingham Forest
Sheffield Wednesday
Ipswich Town
Blackburn Rovers

clubs that are of a similar stature to charlton:

West brom
Birmingham
Leicester City
Middlesbrough
Sunderland
Cardiff City
Norwich City
Sheffield United

nth_london_addick

i would say some welsh clubs are bigger than us at the moment

demodainty

Bigger Clubs:

Arsenal
Aston Villa
Blackburn
Chelsea
Derby
Everton
Leeds
Liverpool
Man City
Man Utd
Newcastle
Nottingham Forest
Sheff Wed
Sunderland
Tottenham
West Ham
Wolves

Similar Sized Clubs:

Birmingham
Bolton
Fulham
Ipswich
Leicester
Norwich
Sheff Utd
Southampton
West Brom

agim

 PL54 2 hours ago # 11
Agim - he says he's 16 and the fourth word you utter is inappropriate.

Ok sorry about the swearing, what do you mean "he says he's 16"?

Nicholas

QPR are probably on par at the minute and getting ready to take over.

guinnessaddick

[cite]Posted By: Nicholas[/cite]QPR are probably on par at the minute and getting ready to take over.

Remember the days when Curbs wanted Charlton to be like QPR.

thai malaysia addick

I don't really understand the point here. There are two divisions of clubs that are better than us and a few in the same division.

I assume the point here is about potential. I would still put quite a lot of teams being potentially bigger than us. If, say, £200m (or whatever it takes these days) was pumped into many of the clubs listed Charlton would be below them in terms of capacity for growth - i.e. turnover/crowds/success. As proved when Charlton rose to dizzy heights, we came pretty close to reaching our full potential, IMHO.

mascot88

I would say that Huddersfield are bigger than us at the moment...

We are an average div 3 team, and unitl we can get out of this div every club abovve us, is just that... above us...

we are losing fans by the day and its looking prettty bleak..

Such is the life of a charlton supporter..

adrian

My appreciation of what a "big club" is, would be to take into account
1 - Trophies (with hierarchy)
2 - Actual and potential fanbase (inevitably controversial)
3 - Recent history (standings and success)
4 - Number of years in top flight
Other data such as ground capacity (was/is) and age (number of football league seasons) can be used to seperate close teams.
Using the number of years in top flight as a platform, we have
1 Everton 108 11 WestBrom 73 21 Stoke 55 31 Huddersfield 30
2 Aston Villa 100 12 Bolton 72 22 WestHam 54 32 Blackpool 28
3 Liverpool 96 13 Blackburn 71 23 Burnley 52 33 CHARLTON 26
4 Arsenal 94 14 Sheffield W. 66 24 Leeds 50 34 Ipswich 26
5 Man U 86 15 Derby 65 25 Leicester 46 35 Fulham 22
6 Man City 82 16 Wolves 62 26 Preston NE 46 36 Bury 22
7 Sunderland 80 17 Sheffield U. 60 27 Southampton 35 37 Norwich 21
8 Newcastle 80 18 Middlesboro 60 28 Coventry 34 38 QPR 20
9 Chelsea 76 19 Birmingham 57 29 Portsmouth 33 39 Luton 16
10Tottenham 76 20 Nottingham F 56 30 Notts C. 30 40 Cardiff 15
By adding or substacting a few points here and there according to personal appreciation of above-mentioned criteria, with the exception of Bury, few teams will
lose/gain more than 3/4 positions on this table. If you agree with my theory, today we can consider ourselves the 30th 'biggest' team in England (our total is
probably higher than Notts C. and Blackpool). Looking down at the smaller clubs, for your information, Millwall are 46th (only 2 years in top flight) and
Crystal Pee is 40th (cobwebs in trophy cabinet are not considered trophies, no, no way!)

Bangkokaddick

A 16 year old's perspective is likely to be different to a 50 year old's.

As for me, I totally agree with Thai Malaysia Addick.

And, to be honest, I don't care how 'big' we are as a club and actually prefer to be thought of as a smaller club as it makes the rare successes so much better.

pilchard

[cite]Posted By: IA[/cite]

[cite]Posted By: pilchard[/cite]No way Cardiff, Sheffield United or on recent history Wolves (although overall they are a big club), Sheffield Weds have the support and stadia but as a side have never been earth shattering, Brian Clough put Forest on the map without him they are no great shakes either- ditto Derby County, I am not convinced of the Norwich claim- maybe they have had sustained periods in the top flight but so did Charlton- just at an earlier and later time. Of course it's more important where we are at the moment but I think your post is interesting Folev and a thought provoker, it's good to look at a clubs' stature and history (which after all makes us what we are).

I'd say Cardiff, Sheff Utd and Wolves get it because of their support base, rather than any particular success. Forest and even more so Derby have supports that continue to hold up despite collapses in form. Norwich and Ipswich have both had good European days, and Norwich would've qualified again but for the European ban. Actually, I'd put Ipswich in the group above us.

I still very much doubt Cardiff's claims even if they are on a bit of a roll at the moment , maybe they have decent levels of support (not many local teams to compete with) but Charlton in the Premier League rarely dropped below 26,000 and would definately have attracted more for some games if the Valley had a larger capacity.How much would they attract in League 1? Would it compare to Leeds, Forest, Norwich and us?
Cardiff supporters were practically mute during the Championship play-off final and were barely audible at all for what was the biggest game in their history.They were totally outsung by Blackpool whose fans who sung loudly and proudly throughout even when trailing.The Cardiff fans were very quiet when they should have roared their boys and made a difference. Contrast that with Charlton and Sunderland fans who made Wembley a cauldron of noise in 98.

iainment

Does it actually matter?

Regardless of how big Charlton is they will always be my team.

Barn Door Varney

We are not a big club. Even when we were in the premiership, we were run with a small club mentality.

Numbers

I like what you have done Adrian, I did something similar in May, the day Millwall got promoted in fact. Once I started receiving texts from mates asking what division we are in, I tried to remember the last time they were in a division higher than us, i couldn't ! So I looked back on the net, it was 1975. I then compared us to Millwall over the years the results made me feel better that day, still do as well.

We have been 2 divisions higher than MFC 19 times

1 division higher than MFC 26 times

in the same division as MFC 32 times

1 division lower than MFC 6 times

2 division lower than MFC 0 times

This shows (the obvious) that we are historically much more successful/bigger than them.

In fact the last time we were a div below them (1975) we got promoted and they got relegated and the status quo was resumed.

I haven't had time to do the same thing with other teams but will do soon, Palace QPR etc.

Choice

I dont think Charlton have been considered a big club since the 50s, long before my time. In all honesty I would categorise Charlton as being on the level with Portsmouth, not on the financial scale (well not quite) but in the eyes of fan base, historically as a selling club, similar fan base and years over achieving in the prem but surviving and doing well thanks to good managers like Curbs and Redknapp. I would class West Ham and Fulham (under Hodgson) in this category aswell and also believe these are clubs that will return to the Championship sooner rather than later. 2 others that fit that category are Southampton and Norwich.

There are the obvious elite such as Man U & Chelsea, with Arsenal, Man City, Liverpool, Tottenham, Everton and Villa all considered big clubs capable of competing with the elite.

There are city clubs striving to become big clubs such as Birmingham and Sunderland with a big fan base but waiting for financial investment to make it become a reality like what happened at Chelsea. I would class Leeds, Sheffield Wednesday, Nottingham Forest and Newcastle in this bracket who I feel with investment could one day become elite clubs

Then there are the northern clubs like Wolves, West Brom, Preston, Stoke, Burnley, Bolton, Blackpool who could be considered as sleeping giants based on either their potential fan base, past history or big name players

As an example out of the championship clubs like Millwall, Barnsley, Donacaster will always be considered small clubs however well they do because of their genuinely small fan base (not based on the big matches/cup ties when everyone comes out the closet)

Its all open to your own interpretation really tbh

adrian

Numbrs, whatever importance you give to each of the above-mentioned 'criteria', you'll quickly realise that in spite of our present situation, we're
unquestionably bigger than MFC and Palarse whose fans can only brag that they beat us much more often than we beat them. Slightly smaller than us, QPR's potential and Fulham's recent success might get them level with us quite soon, unless Parky ....RM ....Sheikh Whoever.... Ayinsah...........

Choice

Based on the clubs in the league right now this would be my personal interpretation of the 4 leagues based on this big club small club theory.

Each league in no particular order, apologies if i have named anyone twice...as was copying and pasting, deleting etc


PREM

Chelsea
Arsenal
Manchester United
Birmingham City
Aston Villa
Manchester City
Wolverhampton Wanderers
Sunderland
Tottenham Hotspur
Liverpool
Newcastle United
Blackburn Rovers
West Bromwich Albion
Stoke City
Everton
Sheffield Wednesday
Leeds United
Nottingham Forest
Bolton Wanderers
West Ham United

CHAMPIONSHIP

Queens Park Rangers
Cardiff City
Ipswich Town
Burnley
Blackpool
Norwich City
Reading
Coventry City
Sheffield United
Watford
Swansea City
Charlton Athletic
Bristol City
Fulham
Derby County
Hull City
Middlesbrough
Crystal Palace
Preston North End
Leicester City
Portsmouth
Notts County
Southampton
Brighton and Hove Albion
Bradford City

LG1

Scunthorpe United
Peterborough United
Carlisle United
Bournemouth
Huddersfield Town
Wigan Athletic
Colchester United
Oldham Athletic
Exeter City
Doncaster Rovers
Barnsley
Swindon Town
Walsall
Bristol Rovers
Plymouth Argyle
Brentford
Tranmere Rovers
Shrewsbury Town
Port Vale
Oxford United
Millwall
Chesterfield
Rotherham United

LG2

Rochdale
Torquay United
Hartlepool United
Leyton Orient
Dagenham & Redbridge
Yeovil Town
Cheltenham Town
Burton Albion
Crewe Alexandra
Accrington Stanley
Bury
Wycombe Wanderers
Aldershot Town
Southend United
Lincoln City
Northampton Town
Milton Keynes Dons
Gillingham
Stevenage
Stockport County
Macclesfield Town
Barnet FC
Hereford United
Morecambe