Do you think PP had any of the players hes signed scouted ? reason I ask is they dont appear to be very good, the 'time to gel' excuse has run out. Maybe its the scouts that should go and not PP at all ???
said it for a long time our scouting system is a joke phil chapple is head scout he obviously isnt very good at his job ,so just like parky i think he should be f----d off out of it .
[cite]Posted By: andyaddick[/cite]Do you think PP had any of the players hes signed scouted ? reason I ask is they dont appear to be very good, the 'time to gel' excuse has run out. Maybe its the scouts that should go and not PP at all ???
[quote][cite]Posted By: BlackForestReds[/cite][quote][cite]Posted By: andyaddick[/cite]Do you think PP had any of the players hes signed scouted ? reason I ask is they dont appear to be very good, the 'time to gel' excuse has run out. Maybe its the scouts that should go and not PP at all ???[/quote]
Shut up.[/quote]
BFR- Constructive comment, we take it you enjoyed yesterdays performance then ?? Or you think its PP's fault and not the scouts ?? Be a little more verbose please.
did you miss the question marks ? I'm assuming by telling me to 'shut up' (even stranger comment when someone asks a question) that he maybe enjoyed the game ?
[cite]Posted By: andyaddick[/cite]Do you think PP had any of the players hes signed scouted ? reason I ask is they dont appear to be very good, the 'time to gel' excuse has run out. Maybe its the scouts that should go and not PP at all ???
Shut up.
BFR-
Constructive comment, we take it you enjoyed yesterdays performance then ?? Or you think its PP's fault and not the scouts ?? Be a little more verbose please.
Your supposition that you know what is going on with the scouting system suggests that it's you who needs to be less verbose.
[cite]Posted By: andyaddick[/cite]did you miss the question marks ?
I'm assuming by telling me to 'shut up' (even stranger comment when someone asks a question) that he maybe enjoyed the game ?
Er, no - I saw the question marks just fine thank you (although just one would suffice, for future reference), but we all know what you were suggesting. It's the way your mind works old son, "if you don't agree with me 100% you must be 100% against me". Tiresome really.
And you could say that just telling someone to "shut up" is a bit like telling them to "fuk off", you know, just a figure of speech, like, init.
Anyway, you've got your reaction so now you can scuttle off back to your pals and slag this board off. TTFN.
oh here we go Offit , another English lesson , BORING ! Why do you assume the 100% thing ? im very open to debate , put forward a reason he should stay, put forward a reason he should go, raise issues about the scouting, isnt that what this board is all about ? You really seem quite a nasty vindictive person Offit, I hope one day you step on a pavement and water squirts up your leg. Im not you 'son' by the way, and if I was I'd be on the phone to Esther Ransen ! lol
just a quesion about the Scouting system , seems I've been attacked by the CL police tho , sorry for posting the quesion, sorry for the upset I've caused.
Nothing to do with CL police - more a fact that your original question was rather daft.
Of course they were scouted.
They are all adequate players just sadly none of them appear to be on their game right now. On paper all the players we signed are adept at league 1 and not many complained when we signed them
So , maybe it is the scouts that need a kick in the backside, recomending inconsistant players ? (look one question mark :-) ) Or does the team who are meant to be motivating these players need some pointers, training / tactics etc ?
Andy, our scouts are shopping at Lidel now with the rest of the lower league teams.
The time has past when we went to Sainburys.
The scouts know their job and I'm sure they do the best they can to attract players to us. But we are not that attractive at present are we?
Waitrose man myself lol, understand the limitations, maybe its the reality kick that we have all not been looking forward to :-( Mind you , them around us and above us with just as much or less than us have done ok.
[cite]Posted By: RodneyCharltonTrotta[/cite]Any manager who relys 100% on signing key players on the basis of scouts without ever seeing them first hand is a fool.
Anyone who believes a manager would do such thing is more than likely also a fool.
Surely Parkinson will have seen first hand every player he has brought in before putting pen to paper.
Exactly when does Parky get the opportunity to see these players first hand? Most of the players he signed before the start of this season were playing for Championship or League 1 clubs. The last time I looked 99% of the time these clubs play their league games at the same time as us. Was Parky regularly absent from the sideline during games last season because he was scouting one of the players he subsequently signed before the start of this season?
Playing against them eg the 2 we got from southend. Benson from D&R. etc
Pre season games at different times. Scouting games when we dont have a fixture.
Are you implying that it is sound judgement to sign a long term contract or fork out a quarter of a million quid on a players you have not seen with your own eyes?
If so please give me a shout next time you want to buy a new house or motor ;-)
If that is the case and our managers have been gambling on players without actually seeing them for themselves and researching their strenghts and weaknesses and how they would fit in in their plays then it aint rocket science as to why we are 14th in the 3rd division.
[cite]Posted By: RodneyCharltonTrotta[/cite]Playing against them eg the 2 we got from southend. Benson from D&R. etc
Pre season games at different times. .
If, during league games he is spending his time assessing opposition players who may or maynot be available on free transfers during the next transfer window rather than working out the tactics he should be deploying to actually win that game, it would explain a lot!
The players we sign are mostly out of contract so probably do not get involved in pre-season friendlies until they have signed for a new club.
See your point red but dont buy it that our scouts are to blame mate.
Yeah the scouts may whittle down a shortlist of potentials but i doubt manager would sign a player without having seen him in training and trial games if a free agent where he could get an idea of what is on offer. Id hope so anyway especially if he is spending much limited money in doing so.
Don't see how we can really judge the scouts. In the end as said, the manager will make the final decision.
I think most of them this summer are decent enough signings, but for a variety of reasons we aren't getting enough out of most of them, or the players that were here last season.
I have to agree with the scouts / scouting system. Parky said that brighton surprised him with a diamond formation. they played it against bournemouth live on sky !!!!! They pas the ball from the back. i knew that before yesterday how comes it was a surprise to parky ???????
"how comes it was a surprise to parky" ? , because he was out ,,, scouting or was it cubs, or guides ?,,, lol !!! (oh , only 1 question mark is required Carly Burn, Offit told me, thank him not me :-) )
Ex Premier League/Championship Scout/Assessor - season ticket holder NE corner.
A bit of background.
Scouting players - The Chief Scout organises the scouting system on behalf of the manager, and usually has a team of scouts scattered around the country in different areas, normally ex-players/managers. The manager will have areas in the team which need improving and request the scouting system look for players who are suitable for those positions on ability & availability (i.e. the club wishes to sell or the player is nearing the end of his contract). The Chief Scout will have a list of players for each position, which his network of scouts & the staff will cover at every opportunity & submit reports. The manager will then watch those players who are recommended whenever he can, so that when the oppotunity arises for a signing or loanee, he will know whether the player is suitable. The manager, coaches, chief scout, youth team staff & scouts will be out most nights of the week watching players and matches, whether it be first team, reserves or non-league. The manager will have the final say on any signing. So in the case of Benson for example, everyone on the staff will have watched him and submitted a report. The fundamental question would have been, can he step-up a level? There must have been a consistent judgement of yes, to spend £250k on him. After taking into account the opinions of his staff, Parkinson will approach the board to make the signing, if he wants the player.
You will also find that all managers have an encyclopedic knowledge of players anyway, its their job. One of the managers I worked for (Ray Harford), knew every player in the league, his background, which position he played and which foot he kicked with. He could never be caught out.
First Team Assessments- Most clubs have 2 assessors who cover future opponents up to 2 fixtures in advance, unless the manager is able to go himself. In this day & age, clubs can also acquire videos of opponents. Assessors cover: System, Pattern of Play, Individual roles within the pattern or system, strengths, weaknesses, & all set plays (including signals). This is primarily to aid the managers team selection, but also to counter what the opposition is trying to do.
On Saturday - Brighton came with a 4-2-3-1. Their pattern of play was a short passing game from the defensive third, through midfield and into the centre forward, mixed up with through balls for the midfield runners to run onto (third man running). Charlton stuck with a 4-4-2, and tried to impose their style of play - passing game through midfield (which failed) mixed up with early early passes to the flanks to set up crosses. Once the passing game fails, passes are hit longer from the defensive third, looking for the front two to hold up play (which also failed). The system failed, the pattern of play collapsed and Charlton were systematically taken apart in the second half. It was a tactical win for Poyet. The Carlisle & Sheff Wed scouts would have also seen that, and will probably employ similar tactics against us in the next two matches. So a helluva lot of work is needed on the training ground this week.
Covering opposition set plays is also crucial. Brighton worked a clever corner for the first goal and repeated it soon after, suggesting to me that it was a new set play not used before or someone fell down on their marking, (Leaving Racon 2 v 1 on the short corner was the first error, not covering the late run of the "insurance man" outside the box the second error, and poor marking on the second phase the third). Most teams use the same set plays from week to week. If the corner routine was known, it would have been covered in training on Friday morning, when teams cover the opposition set plays. It would be interesting to know.
Hope this helps with an insight into scouting & match planning - if you haven't already fallen asleep.
we didn't know what league we'd be in until the season had finished(well i knew we'd fuck up the play offs) so there is no way we'd know whether we were to be keeping the players we had and looking for some decent improvements or we'd be looking to pick up crap from the likes of southend that were available cheaply
so i dont believe parky would have scouted the players that much
i know for a fact parky rang up a player he used to manage to ask about what he thought of mccormack .....................so no i don't believe parky or whoever else would have had much knowledge of some of the players we have brought in
Comments
Shut up.
Shut up.[/quote]
BFR-
Constructive comment, we take it you enjoyed yesterdays performance then ?? Or you think its PP's fault and not the scouts ?? Be a little more verbose please.
I'm assuming by telling me to 'shut up' (even stranger comment when someone asks a question) that he maybe enjoyed the game ?
Your supposition that you know what is going on with the scouting system suggests that it's you who needs to be less verbose.
Er, no - I saw the question marks just fine thank you (although just one would suffice, for future reference), but we all know what you were suggesting. It's the way your mind works old son, "if you don't agree with me 100% you must be 100% against me". Tiresome really.
And you could say that just telling someone to "shut up" is a bit like telling them to "fuk off", you know, just a figure of speech, like, init.
Anyway, you've got your reaction so now you can scuttle off back to your pals and slag this board off. TTFN.
YOU read it again.
"Constructive comment, we take it you enjoyed yesterdays performance then ?? "
Not quite the same as "do you think?" is it.
But hey ho, you go for it. Look forward to reading your comments about how you were on a wind up elsewhere later.
Why do you assume the 100% thing ? im very open to debate , put forward a reason he should stay, put forward a reason he should go, raise issues about the scouting, isnt that what this board is all about ? You really seem quite a nasty vindictive person Offit, I hope one day you step on a pavement and water squirts up your leg.
Im not you 'son' by the way, and if I was I'd be on the phone to Esther Ransen ! lol
what is this crap you 3 have just subjected me to?
Of course they were scouted.
They are all adequate players just sadly none of them appear to be on their game right now. On paper all the players we signed are adept at league 1 and not many complained when we signed them
Or does the team who are meant to be motivating these players need some pointers, training / tactics etc ?
The time has past when we went to Sainburys.
The scouts know their job and I'm sure they do the best they can to attract players to us. But we are not that attractive at present are we?
Mind you , them around us and above us with just as much or less than us have done ok.
Anyone who believes a manager would do such thing is more than likely also a fool.
Surely Parkinson will have seen first hand every player he has brought in before putting pen to paper.
Exactly when does Parky get the opportunity to see these players first hand? Most of the players he signed before the start of this season were playing for Championship or League 1 clubs. The last time I looked 99% of the time these clubs play their league games at the same time as us. Was Parky regularly absent from the sideline during games last season because he was scouting one of the players he subsequently signed before the start of this season?
Pre season games at different times. Scouting games when we dont have a fixture.
Are you implying that it is sound judgement to sign a long term contract or fork out a quarter of a million quid on a players you have not seen with your own eyes?
If so please give me a shout next time you want to buy a new house or motor ;-)
If that is the case and our managers have been gambling on players without actually seeing them for themselves and researching their strenghts and weaknesses and how they would fit in in their plays then it aint rocket science as to why we are 14th in the 3rd division.
If, during league games he is spending his time assessing opposition players who may or maynot be available on free transfers during the next transfer window rather than working out the tactics he should be deploying to actually win that game, it would explain a lot!
The players we sign are mostly out of contract so probably do not get involved in pre-season friendlies until they have signed for a new club.
Yeah the scouts may whittle down a shortlist of potentials but i doubt manager would sign a player without having seen him in training and trial games if a free agent where he could get an idea of what is on offer. Id hope so anyway especially if he is spending much limited money in doing so.
I think most of them this summer are decent enough signings, but for a variety of reasons we aren't getting enough out of most of them, or the players that were here last season.
http://www.runstop.de/fete02.jpg
A bit of background.
Scouting players - The Chief Scout organises the scouting system on behalf of the manager, and usually has a team of scouts scattered around the country in different areas, normally ex-players/managers. The manager will have areas in the team which need improving and request the scouting system look for players who are suitable for those positions on ability & availability (i.e. the club wishes to sell or the player is nearing the end of his contract). The Chief Scout will have a list of players for each position, which his network of scouts & the staff will cover at every opportunity & submit reports. The manager will then watch those players who are recommended whenever he can, so that when the oppotunity arises for a signing or loanee, he will know whether the player is suitable.
The manager, coaches, chief scout, youth team staff & scouts will be out most nights of the week watching players and matches, whether it be first team, reserves or non-league. The manager will have the final say on any signing.
So in the case of Benson for example, everyone on the staff will have watched him and submitted a report. The fundamental question would have been, can he step-up a level? There must have been a consistent judgement of yes, to spend £250k on him. After taking into account the opinions of his staff, Parkinson will approach the board to make the signing, if he wants the player.
You will also find that all managers have an encyclopedic knowledge of players anyway, its their job. One of the managers I worked for (Ray Harford), knew every player in the league, his background, which position he played and which foot he kicked with. He could never be caught out.
First Team Assessments- Most clubs have 2 assessors who cover future opponents up to 2 fixtures in advance, unless the manager is able to go himself. In this day & age, clubs can also acquire videos of opponents. Assessors cover: System, Pattern of Play, Individual roles within the pattern or system, strengths, weaknesses, & all set plays (including signals). This is primarily to aid the managers team selection, but also to counter what the opposition is trying to do.
On Saturday - Brighton came with a 4-2-3-1. Their pattern of play was a short passing game from the defensive third, through midfield and into the centre forward, mixed up with through balls for the midfield runners to run onto (third man running). Charlton stuck with a 4-4-2, and tried to impose their style of play - passing game through midfield (which failed) mixed up with early early passes to the flanks to set up crosses. Once the passing game fails, passes are hit longer from the defensive third, looking for the front two to hold up play (which also failed). The system failed, the pattern of play collapsed and Charlton were systematically taken apart in the second half. It was a tactical win for Poyet.
The Carlisle & Sheff Wed scouts would have also seen that, and will probably employ similar tactics against us in the next two matches. So a helluva lot of work is needed on the training ground this week.
Covering opposition set plays is also crucial. Brighton worked a clever corner for the first goal and repeated it soon after, suggesting to me that it was a new set play not used before or someone fell down on their marking, (Leaving Racon 2 v 1 on the short corner was the first error, not covering the late run of the "insurance man" outside the box the second error, and poor marking on the second phase the third). Most teams use the same set plays from week to week. If the corner routine was known, it would have been covered in training on Friday morning, when teams cover the opposition set plays. It would be interesting to know.
Hope this helps with an insight into scouting & match planning - if you haven't already fallen asleep.
so i dont believe parky would have scouted the players that much
i know for a fact parky rang up a player he used to manage to ask about what he thought of mccormack .....................so no i don't believe parky or whoever else would have had much knowledge of some of the players we have brought in