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I have to get this off my chest

edited October 2010 in General Charlton
I deliberately haven't written on this board for a few weeks because to be honest I haven't known what to make of the current team. Whenever I think they are going to push on, whenever they look sorted, up for it, the next match is a complete reversal, where we look like a team without ambition, with little understanding of each other, and lacking the ability to use the talents we have to control and overcome "lesser" teams.
But after yesterday a few things seem clearer in my mind. Over the last couple of seasons I have tried like many others to look for the positives despite watching the rapid decline of a previously well run, energised club. It was rightly the envy of, and model for, a lot of clubs aspiring to climb to the more lucrative regions of English football.
Mistakes were made, and these have been discussed at length, and there seems to be little point dwelling on them at the moment because the more urgent consideration is where we are now, what we are now, and if we can truly lift ourselves out of this league.
Before that game yesterday I text a fellow lifer on here saying it was a pivotal game - win it and we could step on, maybe it would kick start our season. A match against the top of the league team, we would be up for it, and we would see how good we really were.
I really felt we would give them a game.
All this optimism I had began to fade, as soon as I saw them come out to warm up. The body language of our players reminded me of how the team got off the coach at northwich. Fairly nonchalant not hugely focused. Contrast that with the Brighton warm up, they look organised professional and ready to play.
At that point I said to my son that we were not up enough for this, and I began to have my doubts.
Aside from the first 15 mins or so, to me, Brighton beat us at a canter. Kish seemed to have half an hour or so every time he got the ball, he never seemed to get past light trot mode. He was a strolling reminder of how far we have fallen with every touch he made.
We gifted them 2 goals, but they were the better team. Poyet and his players showed passion, skill, understanding, focus, confidence. We showed some of those things, but sporadically and not as a team.
Like many others I was hoping for/ expecting a return to the Championship last season and then after that did not happen, maybe a challenge this season.
I cannot now see that happening. 
Something has to change massively at this club, if we not to slide into a decline from which we may not be able to recover.
We are now a mid lower table team based on the evidence we are seeing when this team performs. 
Personally I think we should be doing better than that. For me something is seriously wrong with our playing staff and management if we look beaten in the warm up to a game.
Just a view from the north upper.

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    Good post 3blokes, I couldn't make it to the game yesterday but I think I've seen enough of Charlton this season to agree with what you've said there.

    Thinking back to the start of the season I was amazed at how we seemed unable to do the simple things well enough. By the simple things I really do mean controlling and passing. These are things you coach in junior football, something you start off with six year olds. So when you see a team of professional footballers utterly unable to effectively weight a pass and control it (I'm thinking specifically of our performance in Exeter) something has gone very, very wrong.

    Recently our passing and movement has improved but our general approach play, defensive organisation and decision making has been dreadful. You'd think that professional footballers should be aware of this but I'm convinced that the current problems in the Charlton team is down to coaching. I just don't think Parky coaches forward play at all, we are so predictable, two dimensional.
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    It was the team needs time to gel bollox I couldn't get my head around. We don't and have not looked like a team trying to gel or at all cohesive. Piss poor excuses
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    Regards the team gelling, you had to give Parky time.

    From last year we needed a new RB, a new CB, a reserve keeper, new right-wing, CF, CM/left-midfield and the question of Youga and LB was not resolved. We lost Bailey, Sam, Burton, Shelvey, Richardson, Sam Sodje and Rarren Randolph. That's seven players who would all be automatic starters if fit. You can't expect to slot replacements in and have instant success. So to be fair you had to give him a decent run with the new team.
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    But he's had enough time, hasn't he? My point is that there is apparently a problem in the coaching set up this would go some way to explaining why the team hasn't gelled.
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    I agree that alot of changes takes time, but he has had time! and anymore time given to him will result in more depressing performances! if he aint out asap, this season we will be looking at finishing 15th and below!
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    [cite]Posted By: Valley_floyd_red[/cite]But he's had enough time, hasn't he? My point is that there is apparently a problem in the coaching set up this would go some way to explaining why the team hasn't gelled.

    I agree that he's had enough time and I don't see evidence that things are coming together. That's a different argument from the question of whether he should have been given time after extensively rebuilding the squad.
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    edited October 2010
    [cite]Posted By: BlackForestReds[/cite]Regards the team gelling, you had to give Parky time.

    From last year we needed a new RB, a new CB, a reserve keeper, new right-wing, CF, CM/left-midfield and the question of Youga and LB was not resolved. We lost Bailey, Sam, Burton, Shelvey, Richardson, Sam Sodje and Rarren Randolph. That's seven players who would all be automatic starters if fit. You can't expect to slot replacements in and have instant success. So to be fair you had to give him a decent run with the new team.

    Agree but I think those of us who did subscribe to that are now turning because at least after twelve game plus the JPT it is not unreasonable to expect to see some movement towards having a team playing better as time passes. I am afraid I see no sign of improvement and in fact I now see players who genuinely look uncomfortable and lacking confidence or purpose. It does stem largely from the management team imho. I don't fully believe this group of players is as poor as they currently look and puely for making the point I think that if Neil Warnock was at our helm we would be top or at least very near to whoever was. Parkinson. Kinsella and Breacker must take all blame and be dispensed with PDQ if at best we can salvage this season but more worryingly the existence of CAFC.
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    Well measured post 3blokes
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    Good post John. I didn't have much hope at the start of the season, we lost too many players and didn't replace them with a good enough quality of player. For me Francis,Abbott and Benson are a waste of money and Jackson, Martin and Doc (three players i was excited about) aren't putting in the performances. Perhaps Martin is a confidence player? Like Rommerdhal, but we haven't got time to wait, we need our starting 11 to perform and fight for that win and we aren't at the moment.
    We was out-played massivley yesterday, Poyet has got Brighton moving, they were fluid, pacey and exciting. Kish was sweeping everything up infront of the back four and their defence didn't have much to do apart from the opening 20 mins where we looked good going forward.
    Why haven't we brought players in like Kish and Lua-Lua? Why are teams like Brighton more attractive then us?
    I think it's time for a new management team. Parky has had long enough and after two and a half months of the new season we are sitting in 14 place. All be it only three points behind sixth place but the performances aren't showing any signs of promotion and yesterday was shambolic. Surely Murray can see that? The time is right for a change, the new manager would have a couple of months with the squad before January where he could asses the squad and make some changes.
    For me Incey would be a risk, as would Chrissy Powell. I would rather go for a more experienced head, Kevin Blackwell maybe? I don't know what this Damien Matthews guy is like but maybe he is worth a shot? All i know is we are on a downward spiral. There is nothing to stop us getting relegated again (look at Bradford) and something has to be done, sooner rather than later......
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    edited October 2010
    I honestly believe that our players do not possess any self-belief at the moment. Brighton looked like a side that stepped onto the playing turf with 'win' etched into them. Our playing staff are clearly afraid to play and win, they just don't believe they can get a result, hence we draw every week or nick a unwarranted 1-0 victory after being bombarded by lesser teams. Those players of ours should admit that they have no confidence in getting results because if they had we would be putting 3 or more past the bottom clubs. The supporters go to every match expecting to win so why don't the players feel the same? For me, this is a management issue, not a playing one. I'm wondering whether RM is being too nice to the manager. He should get him in the board room and give him a right rollocking for these awful performances. I'd have taken a 2-0 defeat against Brighton if we had put in a 100%. I counted only 2 shots from us in the second half late on and that was from the same move. This season is a disaster, the manager is a disaster. It's no coincidence that he got the boot from Hull so early on. They never looked back from that and got promoted to the prem.
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    Fantastic post 3blokes just wish i could express my thoughts and feelings aswell as you have.Im just full of anger and frustration with whats going on at our beloved club.If Parky is given anymore time this season will be in a relegation battle that we may just not win!
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    [quote][cite]Posted By: agim[/cite]
    Why haven't we brought players in like Kish and Lua-Lua? Why are teams like Brighton more attractive then us?

    Because there's a stench of failure and despair about our club which began when we dropped out of the Prem and made so many catastrophic mistakes, and which has intensified over the last three seasons. It's a bit like Empires - they come and they go, they rise and they fall. It's said that "Every dog has its day". We had our day in that great period when we got back to The Valley, eventually scrapped our way into the Prem and stayed there for a while. We had momentum and hope and optimism. All that has drained away. Now Brighton have got that momentum after years in the doldrums - they've got a new stadium on the way, fans with hope and expectation, a charismatic manager. In my local village about thirty miles from Brighton, they're organising the equivalent of Valley Express. They're a club on the way up. We are going in the opposite direction. I'm envious of them. I'm not saying that it is impossible to reverse the trend for us but things do go in waves and we're in a terribly deep trough. I really believe that until almost everything and everybody associated with this decline moves on and we start anew we are unlikely to turn it around. We just have to hope that Richard Murray can find people who will take the burden of this dying Empire off his shoulders and let thembring all the enthusiasm and hope of the New to our situation.
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    edited October 2010
    [cite]Posted By: Nadou[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: agim[/cite]
    Why haven't we brought players in like Kish and Lua-Lua? Why are teams like Brighton more attractive then us?

    Because there's a stench of failure and despair about our club which began when we dropped out of the Prem and made so many catastrophic mistakes, and which has intensified over the last three seasons. It's a bit like Empires - they come and they go, they rise and they fall. It's said that "Every dog has its day". We had our day in that great period when we got back to The Valley, eventually scrapped our way into the Prem and stayed there for a while. We had momentum and hope and optimism. All that has drained away. Now Brighton have got that momentum after years in the doldrums - they've got a new stadium on the way, fans with hope and expectation, a charismatic manager. In my local village about thirty miles from Brighton, they're organising the equivalent of Valley Express. They're a club on the way up. We are going in the opposite direction. I'm envious of them. I'm not saying that it is impossible to reverse the trend for us but things do go in waves and we're in a terribly deep trough. I really believe that until almost everything and everybody associated with this decline moves on and we start anew we are unlikely to turn it around. We just have to hope that Richard Murray can find people who will take the burden of this dying Empire off his shoulders and let thembring all the enthusiasm and hope of the New to our situation.

    Hmm, grim reading Nadou, but I share your view of our current malaise.

    There is the same demoralisation in the air as in the last days of the Glikstein era, albeit that then it was a slow death whereas now it seems rapid and aggressive.
    I remember how buoyed and jubilant the fans were when Mark Hulyer took over as chairman, little realising he was a cowboy who would go on to bankrupt the club.

    So whilst the club needs a dramatic change in fortune, there is always the uncertainty as to whether you'll get a Sunley/Lennie result or whether another Hulyer or Pardew awaits.

    Maybe an unexpected run of good results will do the trick?
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    [cite]Posted By: Nadou[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: agim[/cite]
    Why haven't we brought players in like Kish and Lua-Lua? Why are teams like Brighton more attractive then us?

    Because there's a stench of failure and despair about our club which began when we dropped out of the Prem and made so many catastrophic mistakes, and which has intensified over the last three seasons. It's a bit like Empires - they come and they go, they rise and they fall. It's said that "Every dog has its day". We had our day in that great period when we got back to The Valley, eventually scrapped our way into the Prem and stayed there for a while. We had momentum and hope and optimism. All that has drained away. Now Brighton have got that momentum after years in the doldrums - they've got a new stadium on the way, fans with hope and expectation, a charismatic manager. In my local village about thirty miles from Brighton, they're organising the equivalent of Valley Express. They're a club on the way up. We are going in the opposite direction. I'm envious of them. I'm not saying that it is impossible to reverse the trend for us but things do go in waves and we're in a terribly deep trough. I really believe that until almost everything and everybody associated with this decline moves on and we start anew we are unlikely to turn it around. We just have to hope that Richard Murray can find people who will take the burden of this dying Empire off his shoulders and let thembring all the enthusiasm and hope of the New to our situation.

    A hopeful and fair point....first things first though......the cleanup needs to start now as there are no signs of anyone wanting to invest in the club.....and right now, I cant say that I blame them.
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    Yes that was exactly it, you could see Brighton believed they were a team on the up.
    Unfortunately yesterday showed the contrast with us and there was no hiding from it. And if we are to turn our fortunes around, nor should there be.
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    edited October 2010
    'Every dog has its day': a saying my Dad likes to use and it's true. I remember driving through Scotland listening to a commentary of the final Brighton match of the 96/7 season in which Brighton had to win to avoid relegation to the Conference.
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    [cite]Posted By: BlackForestReds[/cite]Regards the team gelling, you had to give Parky time.

    From last year we needed a new RB, a new CB, a reserve keeper, new right-wing, CF, CM/left-midfield and the question of Youga and LB was not resolved. We lost Bailey, Sam, Burton, Shelvey, Richardson, Sam Sodje and Rarren Randolph. That's seven players who would all be automatic starters if fit. You can't expect to slot replacements in and have instant success. So to be fair you had to give him a decent run with the new team.

    I would agree if I could see any improvement in the side, but I can't, in fact they seem to be getting worse.
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    [cite]Posted By: 3blokes[/cite]All this optimism I had began to fade, as soon as I saw them come out to warm up. The body language of our players reminded me of how the team got off the coach at northwich. Fairly nonchalant not hugely focused. Contrast that with the Brighton warm up, they look organised professional and ready to play.
    At that point I said to my son that we were not up enough for this, and I began to have my doubts.

    This reminds me of what our substitutes do at half time. Instead of preparing to come on to the pitch, they play a keepy up game.

    It's unprofessional. Any one of them could be minutes from coming onto the pitch to play professional football and they spend the time messing around like it's a pre-season friendly.

    If there's one thing we should know by now it's that you have to want it as much the other team. We didn't when we played bottom of the league, and we didn't when we played top of the league.
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    I think lack of discipline and motivation is a major problem under Parky. The repetition of the same mistakes week in week out, the slow starts and the fact that we only seem to start playing when we fall behind. It also sets alarm bells ringing when a manager is so popular with the players. Curbs kept his distance from the players and from what I've read, players would dread getting called to his office.
    The pre match warm up with Big Merv would always be very well drilled and organised, but these days it all sounds so amateurish.
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