[cite]Posted By: LenGlover[/cite]I've read all this and the emphasis on playing the whistle etc. However can someone answer this?
Nani was in an offside position rolling on the ground he then came from behing Gomez to nick the ball and slot it in.
If we were ignoring the various "offences" from earlier because we were playing the whistle why wasn't Nani given offside?
I'm no Spurs fan but that goal was given because it was Man U. End of!
How can Nani be offside if the ball isn't passed forward by another Man Utd player? The Keeper had the ball and he put it down. no one can be offside.
Totally Gomez' fault, he messed up but yet again authority figures have to be blamed somehow.
Regarding not giving the handball, what is more of an advantage to Gomez...the ball in his hands or a free kick a couple of yards from the touchline? No doubt if the free kick had been given and he'd been made to take it from the right spot he and the Spurs players and fans would be moaning that it should be advantage as he had it in his hands.
Like I said earlier, even if he had seen it, he would be entitled to play on anyway as Gomes had possession of the ball.
Think about this, when the lino informed him of the handball, all Clattenburg had to consider was whether his decision was WRONG. The fact is that there are TWO ACCEPTABLE possible decisions the ref could have made following Nani's handball. ie Give a freekick or play on as possession was overturned. Clattenburg, despite not being aware of the handball had made one of these ACCEPTABLE decisions and therefore couldn't justify overturning it even if he wanted to. The decision simply wasn't incorrect.
It's not the ref's fault.
It's mainly Gomes' fault, with a little bit of fault to the lino.
I've got no axe to grind with Spurs and I've no affinity to United, I just think sometimes blaming the ref is too easy and some people jump on any opportunity to do so.
Sometimes we have to accept responsibility and take the blame ourselves.
It should have been a penalty - Nani was being pulled back and was clearly impeded, that he subsequently dived and then handled the ball is irrelevant. From then on the referee played advantage to Spurs, no one forced Gomes to throw the ball into a position where it was in open play.
[cite]Posted By: lordromford[/cite]
It's not the ref's fault.
It's mainly Gomes' fault, with a little bit of fault to the lino.
I've got no axe to grind with Spurs and I've no affinity to United, I just think sometimes blaming the ref is too easy and some people jump on any opportunity to do so.
Sometimes we have to accept responsibility and take the blame ourselves.
[cite]Posted By: nth london addick[/cite]i hard today all be it from a yid that the rumours are that clattenberg has a man yoo season ticket,, i cant say i believe it
me either. Why would he have a united season ticket if he's reffing every week? People do talk some old bollocks - and that has to be the daftest rumour I've heard )
Agree with everything Lord Romford said. Would only add that if Gomez had placed the ball on the spot where Nani had handled it instead of several yards in front of it, Nani woudl not have been able to score or at least not so easily.
Didn't like the way the Spurs fans were waved away yet Ferdinand was allowed to stay and keep talking.
Man Utd vs Tottenham is the only game in the entire footballing calendar where I will cheer on Man Utd. Despite what you may think about the ''decision'', it was all very funny weren't it!
(Len Glover doesn't understand the offside rule!?)
Not once did i see Clattenberg show advantage played with his arms. He either had them behind his back or was shrugging his shoulders.
It doesnt detract from the fact Gomez is guilty of stupidity but here we all are talking about Clattenberg again. The man is either stupid, corrupt or both. Either way, he needs to be given his marching orders.
You clearly can't play "advantage" after a player has been rolling around on the ground with the ball in his hands. Common sense alone suggests that an advantage that ends in the team who had advantage conceding a goal, isn't an advantage.
Clattenburg is a cheat IMO. Not sure he is cheating for a team, but he's cheating football. I remember him ruining a Merseyside derby disallowing a couple of good everton goals and sending one of their players off and giving a false penalty. I also recall missing a goal that was four yards over the line. Finally, I remember him giving the most astonishing performance I've ever seen live. We played Arsenal. Van Persie booted Fattybank up the ass off the ball, under his nose and didn't get sent off, and went on to score two great goals against the run of play. We absolutely dominated the game and should have had a penalty when Gallas punched the ball out, but he was never going to give it. I think he's just one of those people - like Poll - that enjoys giving stupid decisions, because they get attention. Awful dick. Him and Atwell shouldn't be doing the job because every game they do has some bungle in it.
If the goal were disallowed, would it have been a controversy? I can't see how it would. Clear handball, linesman informs referee of the mistake, no problem.
By the way, I do understand the decision, just think it goes against the spirit of the game. I expect and hope that something similar happens to Man Utd now. They moaned when their 'short corners' were found out, no doubt they'll moan if the same thing happens to them in the Champions League.
[cite]Posted By: McLovin[/cite]You clearly can't play "advantage" after a player has been rolling around on the ground with the ball in his hands. Common sense alone suggests that an advantage that ends in the team who had advantage conceding a goal, isn't an advantage.
[cite]Posted By: McLovin[/cite]You clearly can't play "advantage" after a player has been rolling around on the ground with the ball in his hands. Common sense alone suggests that an advantage that ends in the team who had advantage conceding a goal, isn't an advantage.
Absolutely 100% spot on
rubbish, when does the advantage stop being an advantage then ?. Gomes had the ball in his hands FFS - he then stupidly chose to drop it on the floor at least 10 yards away from the handball knowing full well a free kick hadn't been given.
If the ref had given a free kick when he was holding it in his hands, half the Spurs team would've moaned about him not playing the advantage I suspect as I'm sure most keepers prefer to have the ball in hand and not as a place kick.
[cite]Posted By: IA[/cite]If the goal were disallowed, would it have been a controversy? I can't see how it would. Clear handball, linesman informs referee of the mistake, no problem.
By the way, I do understand the decision, just think it goes against the spirit of the game. I expect and hope that something similar happens to Man Utd now. They moaned when their 'short corners' were found out, no doubt they'll moan if the same thing happens to them in the Champions League.
I agree. The same with the Liverpool goal v Sunderland, no one would have complained much if the goal had been chalked off.
Jesus.
Just to explain for anyone who hasn't understood this - Clattenburg didn't actually play "advantage", he simply allowed play to go on because he didn't see the handball. He had no reason to wave his arms around to indicate this because as far as he was concerned, he had no decision to make. He may have later considered that he COULD have played an advantage anyway, hence the decision shouldn't and, in fact couldn't be overturned.
I say again - He has done nothing wrong.
Honestly, I think some of you lot haven't even seen it. :-)
Well I understood that he said that he saw the handball, which would have been tricky for a shortsighted bat to miss, though.
Regardless of that to my mind if a player goes down claiming to have been fouled and the ref is clear that they haven't been touched, then there surely is a decision to make. I think he just loves all this clowning around because people talk about him. The bankrupt hair plugged prick.
Redknapp was shrug of the shoulders with Fergie on the final whistle, somone probably reminded him on his way to the press conference that Spurs had a worse record over the past 17 years away at the big 4 than Charlton have... sure enough "it's the refs fault, my wife could have seen that blah blah blah" just a shame the press pack couldn't ask 'arry' why despite all his hot air why they still lost?
Just read the Independent article that says Clattenburg 'has said privately' that he DID see it and played advantage. Wasn't aware of this.
This surprises me and I'm dubious about it as it certainly doesn't look visible from where he was stood. I'm personally inclined to believe that, if he has said this, then it's the party line designed to protect his Lino. Anyway, I don't think it changes much other than that he could have been more obvious about playing an advantage.
Other than that, it's still not his fault - that honour remains with Gomes.
Dunno. Maybe. But only if Clattenburg had changed his decision rather than make that decision initially. If Clattenburg had disallowed it, then changed his mind and given it, I'd be annoyed by that too. Both giving the goal and not giving the goal are correct interpretations of the situation.
As it turned out he made a decision and stuck with it because it was a correct decision. Good on him.
Incidentally, I'd be as irritated if Gomes had got away with his cock up as I am that Nani got away with being a prick.
But if the linesman informed him of the handball, for which he was unsighted, and he disallowed the goal and gave a free to Spurs for an earlier infringement, would you have a complaint?
[cite]Posted By: lordromford[/cite]Incidentally, I'd be as irritated if Gomes had got away with his cock up as I am that Nani got away with being a prick.
[cite]Posted By: AshTray[/cite]Just strengthens the argument for technology doesn't it?
Football would be so much more interesting if these things were eradicated from the game....
Why technology? All you'd have is someone saying he handled the ball, should be a free kick. Oh wait we had a linesman do that, and the referee decided that advantage was played...so what would change?
Can somebody explain to me where the advantage was? Refs are like robots and don't use their noddle enough. Common sense surely has to come into it at some point. You are in the noisy caldren that is old trafford - Nani clearly handled the ball - Gomez thought he had been given the free kick but misunderstood the ref who played advantage but not advantage was taken.
Would we have got that decision or Wigan - I don't think so and refs have to look at why they statistically favour the big sides.
[cite]Posted By: MuttleyCAFC[/cite]Can somebody explain to me where the advantage was? Refs are like robots and don't use their noddle enough. Common sense surely has to come into it at some point.
Er, because Gomes had the ball in his hands and, as Spurs were chasing the game, you'd have thought he would have wanted to get on with it rather than have a dead ball allowing Man U players to get back. If the ref really did see it, then he DID use his 'noddle' and use common sense. Gomes didn't use the advantage and presumed he was the one who decides when to give free kicks. You can't expect the ref to stop the game just because the player given the advantage is too stupid to use it.
That wouldn't be common sense, it would be wrong.
Comments
How can Nani be offside if the ball isn't passed forward by another Man Utd player? The Keeper had the ball and he put it down. no one can be offside.
Totally Gomez' fault, he messed up but yet again authority figures have to be blamed somehow.
Regarding not giving the handball, what is more of an advantage to Gomez...the ball in his hands or a free kick a couple of yards from the touchline? No doubt if the free kick had been given and he'd been made to take it from the right spot he and the Spurs players and fans would be moaning that it should be advantage as he had it in his hands.
Absolutely spot on.
Well if he missed it and the lino told him then he would have surely disallowed the goal
Think about this, when the lino informed him of the handball, all Clattenburg had to consider was whether his decision was WRONG. The fact is that there are TWO ACCEPTABLE possible decisions the ref could have made following Nani's handball. ie Give a freekick or play on as possession was overturned. Clattenburg, despite not being aware of the handball had made one of these ACCEPTABLE decisions and therefore couldn't justify overturning it even if he wanted to. The decision simply wasn't incorrect.
It's not the ref's fault.
It's mainly Gomes' fault, with a little bit of fault to the lino.
I've got no axe to grind with Spurs and I've no affinity to United, I just think sometimes blaming the ref is too easy and some people jump on any opportunity to do so.
Sometimes we have to accept responsibility and take the blame ourselves.
This
Didn't like the way the Spurs fans were waved away yet Ferdinand was allowed to stay and keep talking.
(Len Glover doesn't understand the offside rule!?)
Not once did i see Clattenberg show advantage played with his arms. He either had them behind his back or was shrugging his shoulders.
It doesnt detract from the fact Gomez is guilty of stupidity but here we all are talking about Clattenberg again. The man is either stupid, corrupt or both. Either way, he needs to be given his marching orders.
Clattenburg is a cheat IMO. Not sure he is cheating for a team, but he's cheating football. I remember him ruining a Merseyside derby disallowing a couple of good everton goals and sending one of their players off and giving a false penalty. I also recall missing a goal that was four yards over the line. Finally, I remember him giving the most astonishing performance I've ever seen live. We played Arsenal. Van Persie booted Fattybank up the ass off the ball, under his nose and didn't get sent off, and went on to score two great goals against the run of play. We absolutely dominated the game and should have had a penalty when Gallas punched the ball out, but he was never going to give it. I think he's just one of those people - like Poll - that enjoys giving stupid decisions, because they get attention. Awful dick. Him and Atwell shouldn't be doing the job because every game they do has some bungle in it.
By the way, I do understand the decision, just think it goes against the spirit of the game. I expect and hope that something similar happens to Man Utd now. They moaned when their 'short corners' were found out, no doubt they'll moan if the same thing happens to them in the Champions League.
Absolutely 100% spot on
rubbish, when does the advantage stop being an advantage then ?. Gomes had the ball in his hands FFS - he then stupidly chose to drop it on the floor at least 10 yards away from the handball knowing full well a free kick hadn't been given.
If the ref had given a free kick when he was holding it in his hands, half the Spurs team would've moaned about him not playing the advantage I suspect as I'm sure most keepers prefer to have the ball in hand and not as a place kick.
I agree. The same with the Liverpool goal v Sunderland, no one would have complained much if the goal had been chalked off.
Just to explain for anyone who hasn't understood this - Clattenburg didn't actually play "advantage", he simply allowed play to go on because he didn't see the handball. He had no reason to wave his arms around to indicate this because as far as he was concerned, he had no decision to make. He may have later considered that he COULD have played an advantage anyway, hence the decision shouldn't and, in fact couldn't be overturned.
I say again - He has done nothing wrong.
Honestly, I think some of you lot haven't even seen it. :-)
Regardless of that to my mind if a player goes down claiming to have been fouled and the ref is clear that they haven't been touched, then there surely is a decision to make. I think he just loves all this clowning around because people talk about him. The bankrupt hair plugged prick.
This surprises me and I'm dubious about it as it certainly doesn't look visible from where he was stood. I'm personally inclined to believe that, if he has said this, then it's the party line designed to protect his Lino. Anyway, I don't think it changes much other than that he could have been more obvious about playing an advantage.
Other than that, it's still not his fault - that honour remains with Gomes.
Football would be so much more interesting if these things were eradicated from the game....
As it turned out he made a decision and stuck with it because it was a correct decision. Good on him.
Incidentally, I'd be as irritated if Gomes had got away with his cock up as I am that Nani got away with being a prick.
:-)
Why technology? All you'd have is someone saying he handled the ball, should be a free kick. Oh wait we had a linesman do that, and the referee decided that advantage was played...so what would change?
Would we have got that decision or Wigan - I don't think so and refs have to look at why they statistically favour the big sides.
Er, because Gomes had the ball in his hands and, as Spurs were chasing the game, you'd have thought he would have wanted to get on with it rather than have a dead ball allowing Man U players to get back. If the ref really did see it, then he DID use his 'noddle' and use common sense. Gomes didn't use the advantage and presumed he was the one who decides when to give free kicks. You can't expect the ref to stop the game just because the player given the advantage is too stupid to use it.
That wouldn't be common sense, it would be wrong.