Big difference for somebody serving a 6 month or 1 year sentence, compared to 20 years/life.
Those sentenced inside for a short period will be quickly outside again - and I don't see any reason why they shouldn't be allowed to vote as they'll be ordinary citizens again soon after any election.
Long term prisoners are a different matter, perhaps.
[cite]Posted By: Chizz[/cite]Let me get this right. The Tories have decided that we're not going to stand up on our own and defend our country?
This is the same Tories that decided to let more prisoners out to save money and allow the ones still left in prison to have a vote?
Before you throw all your toys out of your pram remeber.
We are not talking about mass murders here. We are talking about the bloke nicked a few ipods and got sentanced to a short prison senteance.
If his prison sentance happens to fall on a day he is in the nick he cannot vote. the EU thinks this is extreme and short term inmates should not loose their democrate right for five years bacause of a short spell in prison;.
However, you may prefer we simply cut ciminals hands off then they can't put their x in the box, that'll learn 'em.
We also have a lot of military deals with the French already due to sharing a large amout of sea with them. they are lots of agreements about what happens it military planes / ship crash in the channel , that sort of thing.
I see this as another example of what happens when our traditional laws based on the accumulative onsidered decisions of judges and our parliament over time are replaced by codes created by bureaucrats. Chizz is right that they should remain within the system but we should be able to control how the system works. If we want to have a law which punishes by withdrawing particular rights we should be free to have them. Why should we be subscribing to a system which says irrespective of what its citizens elected representatives want to legislate for, an alien jurisdiction can override the way we want to order our society. We gave the vote to women, we reduced the voting age from 21 to 18, so we are quite capable of changing our laws to reflect the changes in society. When WE want to give the vote to prisoners WE will come to that decision democratically and we will judge what human rights need protecting. It should not be because of a remote institutions interpretation of words, devoid of context, designed to protect us against State terrorism.
[cite]Posted By: Ketman[/cite]Wouldn't rely on the French for anything they are always on bloody strike.
Good on em ...
Just come back home from another stint in Marseille ....... they've just started clearing it up now, but 3 weeks worth of rubbish was piled sky high in the street, often being set on fire.
Gerry mandering is a very extreme link, it would need to be specific and targetted for a particular gain, so I don't agree that is significant.
The principal at stake is whether guest of her majesty should enjoy citizen rights during their spell and where that starts and finishes, and as I said before surely voting is a lesser right than freedom of movement (don't you agree?) then why should they get to vote?
A description of gerrymandering from the parliamentary corruption act SI No6 1750;
A bribe, or concession to a part of scotland, to build things not required at an inflated cost to keep the locals in ale.
Sounds about right for now too.
As for prisoner rights, the only reason Chizz wants them to have the vote is to increase the Labour vote. Do you think wasters or crims would vote for a party that made work mandatory as part of their benefit claim? Party of the (feckless) people those reds.
As for defence sharing, that must be a good thing, as long as individual requirements are catered for, or the frenchies would of had to agree with joining Falklands/iraq campaigns and we would have been dragged into vietnam.
Still can't understand why anyone would want a crim to have a vote, bizarre, but that is socialism for you.
lets build two aircraft carriers in my home town, dont worry or give a shit about cost--lets get in contracts so deep that even if we loose an election they cant get out of it.Lets not check if we have any aircraft that can fly from them as its nothing to do with defence and every thing about Gordon Brown and Scotland.
oooooooooooooooo for the first time in 100 years an election result over turned through lying ooooooooooooooooooo and its the Ex Labour Minister for Imigration ooooooooooooooo and he used racism to smear his opponent. Mind you he ALWAYS told us the truth in office didnt he------------------------scum the lot of em.
The boys on the Clyde are pleased,there jobs have been saved and they will get overtime fitting extra reverse gears to the new carrier. On a historic front I cant see how we can trust a country who when the shit hits the fan run and hide.I dont think they won a battle since about 1805 home or away,we were having a pop at Parky for a lot less! Churchill had to even turn our Navy on theirs cos he couldnt trust them not to give their ships to the Germans in WW2.I dont buy in to it or Europe either.
[cite]Posted By: richie8[/cite]On a historic front I cant see how we can trust a country who when the shit hits the fan run and hide.I dont think they won a battle since about 1805 home or away,
Depending on your point of view,some think they edged it some say a draw.What I was meaning was they have hardly kicked any arses,and are prone to running away.
[cite]Posted By: richie8[/cite]Depending on your point of view,some think they edged it some say a draw.What I was meaning was they have hardly kicked any arses,and are prone to running away.
Is that your own personal experience of fighting alongside the French?
Oh come on if we're going to behave like the Yanks and claim we single handedly won WW1 then you are clearly mistaken (they had nearly twice as many men involved and twice as many killed). I mean for starters you've forgotten that Napoleon won a series of victories after Trafalgar and wasn't tasting defeat until anything like 1809, the French had time to beat the Austrians during the middle of the 19thC, help us out in the Crimea (again with twice as many men and probably 10x as many casualties), conquer about a 1/3 of Africa and dust up the Chinese.
There really isn't anything new about Anglo-French co-operation, they have an equally capable Navy as ours, in fact theirs is bigger.
[cite]Posted By: Steve Dowman[/cite]A description of gerrymandering from the parliamentary corruption act SI No6 1750;
A bribe, or concession to a part of scotland, to build things not required at an inflated cost to keep the locals in ale.
Sounds about right for now too.
As for prisoner rights, the only reason Chizz wants them to have the vote is to increase the Labour vote. Do you think wasters or crims would vote for a party that made work mandatory as part of their benefit claim? Party of the (feckless) people those reds.
Given that the Tory party are talking about introducing a more lenient sentencing policy I think most would be voting Tory...
[cite]Posted By: richie8[/cite]Depending on your point of view,some think they edged it some say a draw.What I was meaning was they have hardly kicked any arses,and are prone to running away.
All this talk about whether criminals should vote is off topic.
I'm all for more co-operation between Britain and France. Perhaps then, as a British citizen living in France for 7 years and counting, I may actually get the right to bloody vote in France.
[cite]Posted By: richie8[/cite]The boys on the Clyde are pleased,there jobs have been saved and they will get overtime fitting extra reverse gears to the new carrier.
On a historic front I cant see how we can trust a country who when the shit hits the fan run and hide.I dont think they won a battle since about 1805 home or away,we were having a pop at Parky for a lot less! Churchill had to even turn our Navy on theirs cos he couldnt trust them not to give their ships to the Germans in WW2.I dont buy in to it or Europe either.
Perhaps you should read about the Battle of Verdun before making sweeping statements like this...
[cite]Posted By: richie8[/cite]Churchill had to even turn our Navy on theirs cos he couldnt trust them not to give their ships to the Germans in WW2.I dont buy in to it or Europe either.
You don't really think that Churchill was worried that the French would GIVE their ships to the Germans, do you?
Why would anyone help their own enemy? Please think about this - if you are able.
Comments
Those sentenced inside for a short period will be quickly outside again - and I don't see any reason why they shouldn't be allowed to vote as they'll be ordinary citizens again soon after any election.
Long term prisoners are a different matter, perhaps.
.. and churchill got a standing ovation for that !
Before you throw all your toys out of your pram remeber.
We are not talking about mass murders here. We are talking about the bloke nicked a few ipods and got sentanced to a short prison senteance.
If his prison sentance happens to fall on a day he is in the nick he cannot vote. the EU thinks this is extreme and short term inmates should not loose their democrate right for five years bacause of a short spell in prison;.
However, you may prefer we simply cut ciminals hands off then they can't put their x in the box, that'll learn 'em.
We also have a lot of military deals with the French already due to sharing a large amout of sea with them. they are lots of agreements about what happens it military planes / ship crash in the channel , that sort of thing.
That's a fact .....though still made me laugh out loud!
Good on em ...
No, I don't agree with that.
Just come back home from another stint in Marseille ....... they've just started clearing it up now, but 3 weeks worth of rubbish was piled sky high in the street, often being set on fire.
The principal at stake is whether guest of her majesty should enjoy citizen rights during their spell and where that starts and finishes, and as I said before surely voting is a lesser right than freedom of movement (don't you agree?) then why should they get to vote?
... a fairly mis-guided view.
You stated your "view": "Not throwing toys out of prams; simply stating my view."
I pointed you that your "view", not your "agreement" referenced here: "No, I don't agree with that."
was misguided.
A bribe, or concession to a part of scotland, to build things not required at an inflated cost to keep the locals in ale.
Sounds about right for now too.
As for prisoner rights, the only reason Chizz wants them to have the vote is to increase the Labour vote. Do you think wasters or crims would vote for a party that made work mandatory as part of their benefit claim? Party of the (feckless) people those reds.
Still can't understand why anyone would want a crim to have a vote, bizarre, but that is socialism for you.
oooooooooooooooo for the first time in 100 years an election result over turned through lying ooooooooooooooooooo and its the Ex Labour Minister for Imigration ooooooooooooooo and he used racism to smear his opponent. Mind you he ALWAYS told us the truth in office didnt he------------------------scum the lot of em.
On a historic front I cant see how we can trust a country who when the shit hits the fan run and hide.I dont think they won a battle since about 1805 home or away,we were having a pop at Parky for a lot less! Churchill had to even turn our Navy on theirs cos he couldnt trust them not to give their ships to the Germans in WW2.I dont buy in to it or Europe either.
Verdun.
Is that your own personal experience of fighting alongside the French?
There really isn't anything new about Anglo-French co-operation, they have an equally capable Navy as ours, in fact theirs is bigger.
They might as well own half our ships.
Given that the Tory party are talking about introducing a more lenient sentencing policy I think most would be voting Tory...
Please read this book. The Price of Glory.
I know you are only jesting, but a lot of people actually do believe the kind of stuff you have written above.
I'm all for more co-operation between Britain and France. Perhaps then, as a British citizen living in France for 7 years and counting, I may actually get the right to bloody vote in France.
Perhaps you should read about the Battle of Verdun before making sweeping statements like this...