The young lefties invaraibly end up being tories and looking after themselves as they get older. BTW, I'm not saying that a dgree course in whatever subject is not useful at all - just that there may be alternatives that are more useful. If we value certain degrees less and focus on the biggies where the skills are really needed, it will help a lot of young people in the long run and they won't get into debt.
Why is somebody more intelligent because they went to University? Does a history degree give you the skills to be a banker where as working in the banker sector, learning the ropes doesn't?
[cite]Posted By: MuttleyCAFC[/cite]Why is somebody more intelligent because they went to University? Does a history degree give you the skills to be a banker where as working in the banker sector, learning the ropes doesn't?
When I worked for a merchant bank many many years ago, I asked my boss why he insisted on candidates having degrees, even if they were not relevant - his answer was that it showed an ability and willingness to learn and it indicated that the candidate was willing to do whatever it took to reach a given goal.
Good to see students doing what they're supposed to do, the Trots and Anarchists excepted. Fling the book at them, their tactics have always been sly and underhand so I've got no sympathy with them at all. I've put 3 kids through Uni. One of them is paying society back through his mega hefty tax bills. One (with a PhD) can't get a job and the third is on a low income. Literally every penny that I could earn went on their education, and that included doing 70 hour weeks. But at least I managed it, I certainly couldn't be doing it with todays fees. I detest those in power who having milked the system to advance themselves, pull up the ladder for all but the very rich.
Typical hard left stuff, as why didn't the majority stop them, this lot where up for trouble and intent on causing it, 50,000 were on the march, 100 if that caused the problems.
I've been threatened, called a scab and given grief today, so if you don't mind me igoring some of the more stupid stuff for now, I'm off
[cite]Posted By: stilladdicted[/cite]Good to see students doing what they're supposed to do, the Trots and Anarchists excepted. Fling the book at them, their tactics have always been sly and underhand so I've got no sympathy with them at all. I've put 3 kids through Uni. One of them is paying society back through his mega hefty tax bills. One (with a PhD) can't get a job and the third is on a low income. Literally every penny that I could earn went on their education, and that included doing 70 hour weeks. But at least I managed it, I certainly couldn't be doing it with todays fees. I detest those in power who having milked the system to advance themselves, pull up the ladder for all but the very rich.
Exactly my feelings - only one of my children went to uni. I suspect I would've done what it took, but the level of fees they're talking about now would've made it nigh on impossible.
[cite]Posted By: cafcdan18[/cite]Speaking as a Student, and one who does a traditional degree course, the type of people who go on these marches are those who do not go to University for the right reasons (the qualification) and think that by going on a march or two they are some kind of rebels- bet if you did a survey of the courses these people take- the likes of Drama would be very well represented. I would imagine, a lot of those who went today were posh kids who in fact are being funded by Daddy and are rebelling/protesting for the sheer sake of it. This may seem like a sweeping generalisation, but it is based on some of the students I have met over the last couple of years.
I have spent most of today in tutorials and the library (as well as watching Countdown and avoiding all types of tax).
I completely agree, all you have to do is turn on Sky News and see the types of people who are protesting. Certainly not the kind of people I've seen in my uni library lately...
Sadly I think this is a consequence of the Labour Party's drive for 50% higher education. Some people and some courses aren't cut out for uni education, and anyone who cares about the issue and has the intelligence to do a half decent course realises that today has decimated the rational argument that the NUS was trying to convey. And that assumes that these 'students' are actually students as opposed to masquerading unemployed anarchists.
[cite]Posted By: KBslittlesis[/cite]
Wonder, did any of the legitimate protesters try to stop those insistant on ruining their amazing day?
Imo, this is unfair. If the police with their riot gear etc haven't stopped the violence over a number of hours then what chance do some unarmed students have? Those protesting are not the kind who can reason or comprehend a structured argument.
I think it's absolutely disgaceful that a bunch of smug, self-satisfied trouble-makers are currently holed-up in a building in Westminster, casusing un-told misery to millions of tax-payers across the country.
And the student protestors at Millbank are not much better either.
[cite]Posted By: Chizz[/cite]I think it's absolutely disgaceful that a bunch of smug, self-satisfied trouble-makers are currently holed-up in a building in Westminster, casusing un-told misery to millions of tax-payers across the country.
And the student protestors at Millbank are not much better either.
[cite]Posted By: ThreadKiller[/cite]what's wrong with having a history degree?
Surprised that History is the one getting a kicking, it's probably the best of the arts subjects in terms of employability (and no I'm not a history student!). I've heard that more CEOs hold history degrees than any other undergraduate discipline.
About 50,000 students took part in the demo. The media, as ever, concentrated on the 'sexy news', ie the violence. I also do not know a single student who would condone the violent behaviour seen today. The NUS has condemmed it without equivocation. The point was, and still is, that middle and low income families will not be able to see their kids go to Uni which for me is totally unacceptable. A proportionately very small number of violent people have played right into the hands of the ConDems and let them off the hook.
The Top Ten most Popular Degree Choices1) Law – Fancy becoming a legal eagle? Does the law secretly interest you? Pursuing a career in law brings its own professional and financial gains but requires hard work and commitment. For the best course and career advice contact The Law Society
www.lawsociety.org.uk
2) Design Studies – for those with a flair for the creative, a degree in design will allow you to develop your talents to help you find the confidence in pursuing your passion as a career. To find out what should look for in a quality design degree contact. The National Society for Education in Arts and Design (NSEAD)
www.nsead.org
3) Psychology –if the workings of the human mind could be of interest to you then why not consider psychology. For advice on choosing the best course or a career in psychology contact the Institute of Psychology
www.iop.org.uk
4/5) Business and Management Studies – We blame Alan Sugar and the Dragons Den for the rise in this subjects popularity. A business degree provides a solid background for any student who wishes to purse a career in this field. To find the best course for you contact the Association of Business Schools
www.the-abs.org.uk
6) Computer Science – obsessed with computers? IT students are always in demand and can go on to gain lucrative careers. For the best course advice, contact theBritish Computer Society
www.bcs.org.uk
7) English Studies – If you enjoy reading and you have an interesting writing then why not consider a degree in English. Many students go onto pursue a career in writing. For more information on choosing the best English course contact the English Association
www.le.ac.uk/engassoc/
8) Medicine – studying medicine is an extremely big commitment. However, if you have the passion to help people and would like to pursue a career in medicine then contact the British Medical Association
www.bma.org.uk
9) Sports Science – if you have a passion for sports you will be thrilled to know that you can not only study this at university but also go onto achieve a highly successful career in this industry. For the best course and career advice, contact the British Association of Sports and Exercise Sciences (BASES)
www.bases.org.uk
10) Social Work – If you would like to give something back to the community and care for the welfare of other people, social work can be an extremely rewarding course option and future career. For the best course and career advice contact the Social Care Association
www.socialcareassociation.co.uk
Second on the list is Art based studies. Do we need or have jobs for all the art students?
I don't see what the problem is - you are the one who benefits from the education, so therefore, you should pay.
Why should a street sweeper pay for my education? I am still paying off my student debts and I have no problem with that. As long as there is still access to education for people regardless of background there is nothing unfair about this as far as I can see.
Perhaps if there weren't so many shit universities running meaningless courses churning out worthless degrees, then we could lose this ridiculous premise that everyone should go to university. This is what has got us in this mess in the first place. We need more apprenticeships and vocational training etc. for the less academic, rather than sending them to university where they will only ever achieve mediocrity. This is why many degrees are basically meaningless and the reputation of UK higher education is disappearing down the toilet at an alarming rate as the 'everyone must win prizes' mob attempt to ensure that even illiterate, dribbling halfwits end up getting 2:1's from the university of shitsville (who are, incidentally, incentivised by the current system to push down standards and ensure that no-one fails). What a mess.
P.S Even though I am a scientist, I will stand up for history degrees as it a very worthwhile subject IMO and teaches you a lot about evidence, sources and analysis of events...
P.P.S Qualifications mean nothing - some of the cleverest people I have ever met have had no real 'qualifications' as such - and that's coming from someone who works in education and is ridiculously overqualified!
it wasn't just about tuition fees today, it was also about the EMA, which really can be the difference between someone doing a vocational course at college or not
OMG, there are some right bellends on here. What you lot on about? Quite right these students having a fight back at the fees and stuff. Why should only them that can afford it be entitled to a bloody education.
Some of you lot are so old and Tory you want to be taken to the knacker's yard and have a bolt put through your skulls and turned into some kind of disgusting glue, or similar. You silly old farts.
[cite]Posted By: bigstemarra[/cite]Why should a street sweeper pay for my education? I am still paying off my student debts and I have no problem with that. As long as there is still access to education for people regardless of background there is nothing unfair about this as far as I can see.
You and I agree that we want everyone whatever their background, to have access to higher education. The problem with increasing fees to the level proposed is that it will put people from poorer backgrounds off - the street cleaner you use as an example will probably tell his son or daughter not to go to university because the level of debt they will incur will seem to him to be an impossible amount to pay back.
My ex-brother-in-law, who is about 55 years old now, was the first person from his Welsh mining village ever to go to university - what an opportunity! If the fees go up as high as has been suggested, will the next generation of teenagers from his village have that opportunity?
BTW, just for information, NUS policy isn't for free higher education, it's for a graduate contribution (ideally a graduate tax based on ability to pay) but also that employers and government make an equal contribution. All three gain from a highly educated work force
Comments
When I worked for a merchant bank many many years ago, I asked my boss why he insisted on candidates having degrees, even if they were not relevant - his answer was that it showed an ability and willingness to learn and it indicated that the candidate was willing to do whatever it took to reach a given goal.
I've been threatened, called a scab and given grief today, so if you don't mind me igoring some of the more stupid stuff for now, I'm off
Exactly my feelings - only one of my children went to uni. I suspect I would've done what it took, but the level of fees they're talking about now would've made it nigh on impossible.
I completely agree, all you have to do is turn on Sky News and see the types of people who are protesting. Certainly not the kind of people I've seen in my uni library lately...
Sadly I think this is a consequence of the Labour Party's drive for 50% higher education. Some people and some courses aren't cut out for uni education, and anyone who cares about the issue and has the intelligence to do a half decent course realises that today has decimated the rational argument that the NUS was trying to convey. And that assumes that these 'students' are actually students as opposed to masquerading unemployed anarchists.
Imo, this is unfair. If the police with their riot gear etc haven't stopped the violence over a number of hours then what chance do some unarmed students have? Those protesting are not the kind who can reason or comprehend a structured argument.
And the student protestors at Millbank are not much better either.
LMAO - I'm going to use that, if you don't mind.
Everyone knows that all the smart people study law.
:-)
As for "less than 100" - dont think so. Just watching it on the news and there were more than that on the roof alone.
Surprised that History is the one getting a kicking, it's probably the best of the arts subjects in terms of employability (and no I'm not a history student!). I've heard that more CEOs hold history degrees than any other undergraduate discipline.
Free period?
If the tuition fees go up why does that cost the parents more, as I see it the student doesn't pay it back until they are earning a certain amount.
Why should I pay my taxes toward somebody I don't know who in all probability is going to earn more than I ever will?
I believe that if you want something from life you have to pay for it, not expect others to pay on your behalf.
The Top Ten most Popular Degree Choices1) Law – Fancy becoming a legal eagle? Does the law secretly interest you? Pursuing a career in law brings its own professional and financial gains but requires hard work and commitment. For the best course and career advice contact The Law Society
www.lawsociety.org.uk
2) Design Studies – for those with a flair for the creative, a degree in design will allow you to develop your talents to help you find the confidence in pursuing your passion as a career. To find out what should look for in a quality design degree contact. The National Society for Education in Arts and Design (NSEAD)
www.nsead.org
3) Psychology –if the workings of the human mind could be of interest to you then why not consider psychology. For advice on choosing the best course or a career in psychology contact the Institute of Psychology
www.iop.org.uk
4/5) Business and Management Studies – We blame Alan Sugar and the Dragons Den for the rise in this subjects popularity. A business degree provides a solid background for any student who wishes to purse a career in this field. To find the best course for you contact the Association of Business Schools
www.the-abs.org.uk
6) Computer Science – obsessed with computers? IT students are always in demand and can go on to gain lucrative careers. For the best course advice, contact theBritish Computer Society
www.bcs.org.uk
7) English Studies – If you enjoy reading and you have an interesting writing then why not consider a degree in English. Many students go onto pursue a career in writing. For more information on choosing the best English course contact the English Association
www.le.ac.uk/engassoc/
8) Medicine – studying medicine is an extremely big commitment. However, if you have the passion to help people and would like to pursue a career in medicine then contact the British Medical Association
www.bma.org.uk
9) Sports Science – if you have a passion for sports you will be thrilled to know that you can not only study this at university but also go onto achieve a highly successful career in this industry. For the best course and career advice, contact the British Association of Sports and Exercise Sciences (BASES)
www.bases.org.uk
10) Social Work – If you would like to give something back to the community and care for the welfare of other people, social work can be an extremely rewarding course option and future career. For the best course and career advice contact the Social Care Association
www.socialcareassociation.co.uk
Second on the list is Art based studies. Do we need or have jobs for all the art students?
;o)
Why should a street sweeper pay for my education? I am still paying off my student debts and I have no problem with that. As long as there is still access to education for people regardless of background there is nothing unfair about this as far as I can see.
Perhaps if there weren't so many shit universities running meaningless courses churning out worthless degrees, then we could lose this ridiculous premise that everyone should go to university. This is what has got us in this mess in the first place. We need more apprenticeships and vocational training etc. for the less academic, rather than sending them to university where they will only ever achieve mediocrity. This is why many degrees are basically meaningless and the reputation of UK higher education is disappearing down the toilet at an alarming rate as the 'everyone must win prizes' mob attempt to ensure that even illiterate, dribbling halfwits end up getting 2:1's from the university of shitsville (who are, incidentally, incentivised by the current system to push down standards and ensure that no-one fails). What a mess.
P.S Even though I am a scientist, I will stand up for history degrees as it a very worthwhile subject IMO and teaches you a lot about evidence, sources and analysis of events...
P.P.S Qualifications mean nothing - some of the cleverest people I have ever met have had no real 'qualifications' as such - and that's coming from someone who works in education and is ridiculously overqualified!
The arguement is that the country as a whole benefits from having a highly qualified workforce.
Some of you lot are so old and Tory you want to be taken to the knacker's yard and have a bolt put through your skulls and turned into some kind of disgusting glue, or similar. You silly old farts.
You and I agree that we want everyone whatever their background, to have access to higher education. The problem with increasing fees to the level proposed is that it will put people from poorer backgrounds off - the street cleaner you use as an example will probably tell his son or daughter not to go to university because the level of debt they will incur will seem to him to be an impossible amount to pay back.
My ex-brother-in-law, who is about 55 years old now, was the first person from his Welsh mining village ever to go to university - what an opportunity! If the fees go up as high as has been suggested, will the next generation of teenagers from his village have that opportunity?