Thank you, dabos. I was wrong. As you say, there hasn't been the same chance to play the top sides. Croatia and Ukraine were big matches against good sides.
[cite]Posted By: IA[/cite]ValleyGary, can you correct me on this one? I don't know if I'm wrong or right but I always had the feeling that Crouch's scoring record was mostly against the Kazakhstans and Trinidad & Tobagos of this world rather than France, Holland etc. Maybe I'm wrong about that, and he did score last night, but thought I'd ask.
I think you're right, but to be honest we haven't played that many top sides over the last few years so we can't blame him for not scoring against teams we haven't played against. The same argument could probably be leveled at Rooney.
Crouch'sinternational goalshave come against Uruguay, Hungary, Jamaica, Trinidad & Tobago, Greece, Andorra, Macedonia, Estonia, Austria, Croatia, Ukraine, Andorra, Belarus, Egypt, Mexico and France.
fair point IA, but as dabos says we havent really played anyone of note and when we have capello is reluctant to use him. We have Argentina in Feb, he needs to play crouch for atleast 45 mins and see what happens.
[cite]Posted By: Rothko[/cite]No one is going to get us near any semi finals with the players we've got. It's the legacy of having a Service economy league
Exactly. We are years behind the likes of Spain, Holland and Germany, we wouldn't beat Brazil or Argentina, we proved last night we're behind France and i doubt we'd beat Portugal either.
[cite]Posted By: ISawLeaburnScore[/cite]Gerrard was good? Had a shocker from where I was sitting. Missed two sitters and ball after ball given away.
I'd like to see SG's opta stats on England appearances, when he's not exchanging passes with the defence (rather than making himself available further up the field) he is giving the ball away. The sooner he is consigned to the "this guy has consistently failed his country bin" the better. Gareth Barry? Don't get me started!
The thing is, the Bundersliga isn't a million miles away from the Premier League in terms of atmosphere, excitement and culture, yet it's packed full of German players, all with great technique who can go on and play at the highest level. Look at Ozil, Khedira and Boateng, all came through the Bundersliga youth system, did for the U21's and then handed us our arses on a plate in the summer.
There's a lot of pressure on the likes of hart, gibbs, wilshere, carroll etc now. The 'golden generation' have done naff all and patience isn't exactly going to be strong unfortunately...as if the incapableness of their predecessors is their fault though.
[cite]Posted By: Rothko[/cite]The thing is, the Bundersliga isn't a million miles away from the Premier League in terms of atmosphere, excitement and culture, yet it's packed full of German players, all with great technique who can go on and play at the highest level. Look at Ozil, Khedira and Boateng, all came through the Bundersliga youth system, did for the U21's and then handed us our arses on a plate in the summer.
The Premier League is the problem
I'm not buying this. English teams were full of English players in the 70s and not a single world cup was even qualified for (unthinkable now). In 94 there was far less foreigners in the top English league, but it didn't breed a super team. German sides have far more lenient work permit restrictions than English counterparts. You just don't need a league packed full of local players for success. No more than 30 or 40 players will ever get into the national pool, so as long as that elite is coming in, everything should be possible from there. The TalkSpurt generation seem to believe that if Cronaldo or Fabergas hadn't been taking the place of good honest English lads that the equivalent would have naturally occured here, which is just utter nonsense. Where I would be worried is the increasing recruitment of foreign players players into youth teams, because while (outside of the mind of Stan Collymore or Ian Shyte) a foreigner won't block a local who's really good enough to play for a top 10 international side, a foreign kid could impede the progress of a less developed English lad getting into a youth side. Maybe the answer is that English footballers need to be more prepared to move abroad to develop. Certainly from a Scottish perspective Collins, Lambert, Brewster and McLeod all came back from abroad immesurably better players, which is partly down to coaching and techniques and partly down to learning a bit more about the game and putting the best aspects of different cultures together.
I think while people try and cast around for a single simple reason why England are a second tier team, it'll never change. It wasn't a slight change in Spanish mentality that changed them from also rans into all conquering bulldozers.
To be fair to Nani i think it's just a natural instinct to see the ball there and finish it off. Having said that the ball looked like it was over the line anyway. Ronaldo certainly made Pique look stupid though!
[cite aria-level=0 aria-posinset=0 aria-setsize=0]Posted By: Rothko[/cite]The thing is, the Bundersliga isn't a million miles away from the Premier League in terms of atmosphere, excitement and culture, yet it's packed full of German players, all with great technique who can go on and play at the highest level. Look at Ozil, Khedira and Boateng, all came through the Bundersliga youth system, did for the U21's and then handed us our arses on a plate in the summer.
The Premier League is the problem
I'm not buying this. English teams were full of English players in the 70s and not a single world cup was even qualified for (unthinkable now). In 94 there was far less foreigners in the top English league, but it didn't breed a super team. German sides have far more lenient work permit restrictions than English counterparts. You just don't need a league packed full of local players for success. No more than 30 or 40 players will ever get into the national pool, so as long as that elite is coming in, everything should be possible from there. The TalkSpurt generation seem to believe that if Cronaldo or Fabergas hadn't been taking the place of good honest English lads that the equivalent would have naturally occured here, which is just utter nonsense. Where I would be worried is the increasing recruitment of foreign players players into youth teams, because while (outside of the mind of Stan Collymore or Ian Shyte) a foreigner won't block a local who's really good enough to play for a top 10 international side, a foreign kid could impede the progress of a less developed English lad getting into a youth side. Maybe the answer is that English footballers need to be more prepared to move abroad to develop. Certainly from a Scottish perspective Collins, Lambert, Brewster and McLeod all came back from abroad immesurably better players, which is partly down to coaching and techniques and partly down to learning a bit more about the game and putting the best aspects of different cultures together.
I think while people try and cast around for a single simple reason why England are a second tier team, it'll never change. It wasn't a slight change in Spanish mentality that changed them from also rans into all conquering bulldozers.
Comments
fair point IA, but as dabos says we havent really played anyone of note and when we have capello is reluctant to use him. We have Argentina in Feb, he needs to play crouch for atleast 45 mins and see what happens.
Stop throwing money a glamour coaches and tarnishing their club records FA and appoint him.
Exactly. We are years behind the likes of Spain, Holland and Germany, we wouldn't beat Brazil or Argentina, we proved last night we're behind France and i doubt we'd beat Portugal either.
I'd like to see SG's opta stats on England appearances, when he's not exchanging passes with the defence (rather than making himself available further up the field) he is giving the ball away. The sooner he is consigned to the "this guy has consistently failed his country bin" the better. Gareth Barry? Don't get me started!
The Premier League is the problem
Cristiano-Ronaldos-greatest-goal-sabotaged-by-Nani
I think while people try and cast around for a single simple reason why England are a second tier team, it'll never change. It wasn't a slight change in Spanish mentality that changed them from also rans into all conquering bulldozers.
Ronaldo certainly made Pique look stupid though!
brilliant post that
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/9207550.stm
Of course, nothing like this will ever happen.