[cite]Posted By: Chris_from_Sidcup[/cite]Leroy - i know you're obviously biased towards Barca but Xavi and Iniesta are not better than Ronaldo. Ronaldo ran the show for Man Utd, changed leagues and runs the show for Madrid. He's got something like 52 goals in 55 games for Madrid.
A serious question though about the debt. If they have so many members, are owned by the fans, get 90k each home game, have a huge turnover, most of their side is homegrown and they win almost every trophy going, how has the debt got so bad?
CafcAndy - if you don't enjoy watching Barca play then you can't like football. They are one of the best teams of all time.
Xavi and Iniesta are better than Ronaldo. Have Portugal won the world cup and european championships on the back of Ronaldo? Because, believe me, if you remove Xavi or Iniesta from the Spain team, they wouldn't have won either. Ditto Barca. When Xavi and Iniesta were out for periods last year, Barca just weren't the same team.
Once again, the debt at Barca is completely different from the debt at other Spanish clubs. The main debt problem is that a lot of Barca's non-member money comes from a media company that is on the verge of bankruptcy. That's the real issue - not the rolling debnt (which is largely covered by operating income). One of Laporta's outgoing ideas was to raise the membership fees by 10%. That would eliminate 60% of debt in one fell swoop. A massive problem is that football in Spain is completely unsustainable in even the medium term - because sooner or later, ALL of the 'big' clubs outside the top two (Valencia, Atletico, Deportivo etc) will go bankrupt as they have to spend far beyond their means to compete, and make stupid financial decisions (Valencia are the prime example of this)
I have to say, that game of football last night was the highest quality I have seen in years. The passion from both sets of players was first class and the atmosphere sounded amazing! Much better than when our top teams play each other.
I am 29 Messi is the best player I have seen and will see in my time, he is superb.
Great match and some great players, I think I counted 11 WC winners playing last night. What's the highest number of players with a WC medal playing in a competitive club match?
Barca last night gave the best team performance I have ever seen. Real are a quality side, and frankly, at times, Barca were taking the p*ss with their passing and all round play.
[cite]Posted By: BlackForestReds[/cite]Great match and some great players, I think I counted 11 WC winners playing last night. What's the highest number of players with a WC medal playing in a competitive club match?
I would guess Juve v Inter in 83 would have had a lot, the majority of the Italian side then had Juve players with a few from Inter. Can only think of Conti in that side that played for someone else, Roma at the time I think
[cite]Posted By: Chris_from_Sidcup[/cite]Leroy - i know you're obviously biased towards Barca but Xavi and Iniesta are not better than Ronaldo. Ronaldo ran the show for Man Utd, changed leagues and runs the show for Madrid. He's got something like 52 goals in 55 games for Madrid.
A serious question though about the debt. If they have so many members, are owned by the fans, get 90k each home game, have a huge turnover, most of their side is homegrown and they win almost every trophy going, how has the debt got so bad?
CafcAndy - if you don't enjoy watching Barca play then you can't like football. They are one of the best teams of all time.
Xavi and Iniesta are better than Ronaldo. Have Portugal won the world cup and european championships on the back of Ronaldo? Because, believe me, if you remove Xavi or Iniesta from the Spain team, they wouldn't have won either. Ditto Barca. When Xavi and Iniesta were out for periods last year, Barca just weren't the same team.
I'm not doubting Xavi and Iniesta's ability but you can't fault Ronaldo for Portugal not winning a trophy. Spain still had Pique, Puyol, Alonso, Fabregas, Villa, Pedro and even Torres. Portugal without Ronaldo have Nani.
Valdes-boring Alves-too defensively minded Puyol-doesn't try, no commitment Pique-no wonder Man U let him go Abidal-looks lost on the left Pedro-who? Xavi-poor first touch, no vision Iniesta-slow on the ball, always caught in possession Busquets-meant to sit in front of back 4 but is a lazy bastard Messi-overated, greedy Villa-needs 10 chances to score 1 goal ala Leaburn
Long ball after long ball. Is this the way the game should be played?
[cite]Posted By: Scoham[/cite]Shame England don't have midfielders like him and Xavi though isn't it.
The thing is maybe we do! But with the stone age coaching approach that still pervades our game (which elevates donkeys like Andy Carrol to potential 'world class' material) players like Iniesta and Xavi would never get the chance to develop in England. I use to think Deco was a similar player (and almost as good) as Iniesta and Xavi but he never really reproduced it for Chelsea. For these types of players to succeed they need to be in a team which is dominated by similar players who can all play the quick short passing game and coached by a manager who trains and sets his team up to play a quick short passing game.
I would love to see (as was rumoured at the week-end) Guadiola appointed Chelsea manager next season but I don't think he would be able to reproduce the Barcelona style of play unless he was able to bring in 4 or 5 players who have been brought through the Barcelona academy.
[cite]Posted By: colthe3rd[/cite]Pirlo overrated? Christ we really have some wum on this forum
and before you get too wound up, i admit my post should have said 'was overrated' as he seems to have fallen of the radar along with the rest of Serie A football.
[cite]Posted By: Scoham[/cite]Shame England don't have midfielders like him and Xavi though isn't it.
The thing is maybe we do! But with the stone age coaching approach that still pervades our game (which elevates donkeys like Andy Carrol to potential 'world class' material) players like Iniesta and Xavi would never get the chance to develop in England. I use to think Deco was a similar player (and almost as good) as Iniesta and Xavi but he never really reproduced it for Chelsea. For these types of players to succeed they need to be in a team which is dominated by similar players who can all play the quick short passing game and coached by a manager who trains and sets his team up to play a quick short passing game.
I worry that this will happen with Wilshere. He looks like a genuine creative talent, but what good is that if he doesn't have the other players in sync like at Arsenal? Walcott as well looks excellent for Arsenal, but in the England set up all he gets to do is hug the touchline and try and control cross field passes from Gerrard.
[cite]Posted By: colthe3rd[/cite]Pirlo overrated? Christ we really have some wum on this forum
and before you get too wound up, i admit my post should have said 'was overrated' as he seems to have fallen of the radar along with the rest of Serie A football.
Serie A winner, 2 champions leagues, world cup winner, mom in world cup final and voted 3rd best player of the tournament. And can still do things like this From a couple of months ago.
I don't mind if people say they don't like a player that's fine but to say someone is overrated when they are clearly very good and has won most things there is in football is clearly on a wind up or just does not watch enough of that player.
[cite]Posted By: colthe3rd[/cite]Pirlo overrated? Christ we really have some wum on this forum
and before you get too wound up, i admit my post should have said 'was overrated' as he seems to have fallen of the radar along with the rest of Serie A football.
Serie A winner, 2 champions leagues, world cup winner, mom in world cup final and voted 3rd best player of the tournament. And can still do things like thisFrom a couple of months ago.
I don't mind if people say they don't like a player that's fine but to say someone is overrated when they are clearly very good and has won most things there is in football is clearly on a wind up or just does not watch enough of that player.
mom in probably the worst world cup finals bar '94. Clarence Seedorf has got 4 CL medals but nodody really bangs on about him as much. Pirlos trophy cabinet is probably the reason why people immediately think hes world class and why i think he's overrated. He is far too deep lying and doesnt win enough tackles for a deep midfielder...but i think the main reason he is overrated is because he is too dependent on others around him. He needs that creative player infront and the ball winner next too him...for me a 'Word Class midfielder' should tick more boxes. Being good at 10 yard square passes and set pieces doesnt cut it enough in my opinion.
Comments
Once again, the debt at Barca is completely different from the debt at other Spanish clubs. The main debt problem is that a lot of Barca's non-member money comes from a media company that is on the verge of bankruptcy. That's the real issue - not the rolling debnt (which is largely covered by operating income). One of Laporta's outgoing ideas was to raise the membership fees by 10%. That would eliminate 60% of debt in one fell swoop. A massive problem is that football in Spain is completely unsustainable in even the medium term - because sooner or later, ALL of the 'big' clubs outside the top two (Valencia, Atletico, Deportivo etc) will go bankrupt as they have to spend far beyond their means to compete, and make stupid financial decisions (Valencia are the prime example of this)
I am 29 Messi is the best player I have seen and will see in my time, he is superb.
I'm not doubting Xavi and Iniesta's ability but you can't fault Ronaldo for Portugal not winning a trophy. Spain still had Pique, Puyol, Alonso, Fabregas, Villa, Pedro and even Torres. Portugal without Ronaldo have Nani.
if we are gonna talk over-rated then i give you Ibrahimovic, Rio Ferdinand, Pirlo, Robinho, Cech......
Valdes-boring
Alves-too defensively minded
Puyol-doesn't try, no commitment
Pique-no wonder Man U let him go
Abidal-looks lost on the left
Pedro-who?
Xavi-poor first touch, no vision
Iniesta-slow on the ball, always caught in possession
Busquets-meant to sit in front of back 4 but is a lazy bastard
Messi-overated, greedy
Villa-needs 10 chances to score 1 goal ala Leaburn
Long ball after long ball. Is this the way the game should be played?
just chill out col ffs
I would love to see (as was rumoured at the week-end) Guadiola appointed Chelsea manager next season but I don't think he would be able to reproduce the Barcelona style of play unless he was able to bring in 4 or 5 players who have been brought through the Barcelona academy.
and before you get too wound up, i admit my post should have said 'was overrated' as he seems to have fallen of the radar along with the rest of Serie A football.
I worry that this will happen with Wilshere. He looks like a genuine creative talent, but what good is that if he doesn't have the other players in sync like at Arsenal? Walcott as well looks excellent for Arsenal, but in the England set up all he gets to do is hug the touchline and try and control cross field passes from Gerrard.
I don't mind if people say they don't like a player that's fine but to say someone is overrated when they are clearly very good and has won most things there is in football is clearly on a wind up or just does not watch enough of that player.
mom in probably the worst world cup finals bar '94. Clarence Seedorf has got 4 CL medals but nodody really bangs on about him as much. Pirlos trophy cabinet is probably the reason why people immediately think hes world class and why i think he's overrated. He is far too deep lying and doesnt win enough tackles for a deep midfielder...but i think the main reason he is overrated is because he is too dependent on others around him. He needs that creative player infront and the ball winner next too him...for me a 'Word Class midfielder' should tick more boxes. Being good at 10 yard square passes and set pieces doesnt cut it enough in my opinion.