[quote][cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]I am always wary of religious cults so some posts and threads on CL in the last 24 hours have concerned me.
Some fans seem to be working themselves up into a frenzy of devotion for our new manager before he has even signed on the dotted line.
Any word of doubt or caution is being dismissed as a show of disloyalty, heresy almost. It seems that the option now is unswerving, unquestioning loyalty to the new manager or excommunication from the Valley faithful.
It is frighteningly reminiscent of the arrival of the last messiah at the Valley, Alan Pardew. He too was hailed, by most, as the second coming; a demi-god of football management who would save us from relegation. He turned out to have feet very much made of clay (and yes I see the irony of using a reference from the book of Daniel here).
Now before you issue a fatwa or organise a stoning for this non-believer I'll say how happy I am that he is returned. I wish him all the luck in the world and I so so want him to succeed. But then again I want every Charlton manager to succeed, those I like and those I don't, because I want the Club to succeed.
More than that I think he will succeed. He has served his time as a coach, got his badges, learnt his trade and he has the good fortune to pick up a semi-decent set of players in a position to challenge for at least the play-offs along with a new board willing, or so it would seem, to back him financially in the transfer/loan market.
But be warned. His team will lose games. His teams will play badly. How do I know? Because every manager loses games sometimes and every team plays badly at times. The successful teams and the successful managers just do it less than the rest.
There will be times too when his teams don't play like the current Barca team or 1960 Real Madrid side. Sometimes they will grind out results like every good team has to. You may even see a league one defender punt the ball 60 yards to clear his lines and give the defence the chance to re-shape. If I remember rightly there was a certain left back at Charlton, England international as well, who wasn't adverse to doing that when he needed to.
And when we lose or play badly there will be boos. Not from me but there will be boos because that is what people do. Not just at the Valley but every ground up and down the country. It's stupid but it happens. Hopefully it will be very rare and when it happens it will be drowned out by shouts of encouragement.
Those who are expressing doubts or pointing out his lack of experience are being honest and largely reflecting what many Charlton fans would have said (and have said) when similar appointments have been made at Newcastle and very recently at Palace.
They are not wishing failure on him but neither are they putting unrealistic burdens of expectation on the new guy's very human shoulders.[/quote]
Well said Henry, after looking at most of the posts i feel that i am drowning in a lake of hyperbole. I have heard talk of the second coming but this is ridiculous.
So,, Henry, in 1989 when it was first announced that we were planning to go back to The Valley, did you immediately write a similar article on "Beware Worshipping the Ground!". That one didn't turn out too badly...so let's just enjoy this moment and not try and foresee loads of issues down the line.
Some fella on twitter who lives in Greenwich but isn't even a Charlton fan: "Just seen Chrissy Powell drive past me in a black merc. We both punched the air and smiled at each other. I don't even support #cafc"
Then in reply to a response: "I know mate, it's hard not to get carried away with it all."
So you doom merchants, listen up... the Word of Chris is spreading!
Can't say I agree with this fully. The vast majority of fans already understand the points you make - nobody thinks that everything is suddenly going to be perfect. But, we will be much more patient with Chris than we would be with any other manager when we do play badly, when he does make wrong decisions and when we do lose games. This is exactly what the club has been needing ever since we got relegated from the Premiership - belief and a feeling of unity.
As far as the comparisons are concerned, I can't see how you can compare Chris Powell to Alan Pardew , Dougie Freedman or Alan Shearer. Pards played less than half the number of games for Charlton that Chrissy did, and I think played for Palace more times than he did for us. He is nowhere near as much of a Charlton 'legend'. And I think most people in the football world would agree that Chris has a more legitimate claim to management than either Dougie Freedman or Alan Shearer when he joined Newcastle (ex-PFA chairman, World Cup ambassador, worked under ex-England manager, I could go on).
[cite]Posted By: gilbertfilbert[/cite]I agree, Henry. Most of all, we have to give him time. There's not going to be an overnight transformation.
I'm sure the fans will but will the board?
Spot on article Henry and you pose the key question.
I read CP's appointment as an indication that, for the moment, Reg carries some serious weight in decision-making. That wasn't a given, in my view, when the change of ownership was announced. Next test will be ticket prices for next season.
Let's hope it remains the case and that the new owners (more importantly the new backers) have patience.
[cite]Posted By: ShootersHillGuru[/cite]i think people are perfectly aware of the risk in appointing Chris it's just they are for once happy to take it.
Most yes but others, a few, have been evangelising CP and refusing to accept doubters legitimate worries.
[cite]Posted By: Weegie Addick[/cite]So,, Henry, in 1989 when it was first announced that we were planning to go back to The Valley, did you immediately write a similar article on "Beware Worshipping the Ground!". That one didn't turn out too badly...so let's just enjoy this moment and not try and foresee loads of issues down the line.
Unfair. The ground is not the same as a manager, I'm enjoying the moment a lot and hope everyone else is too and I'm not trying to foresee loads of issues down the line.
[cite]Posted By: lacole[/cite]Can't say I agree with this fully. The vast majority of fans already understand the points you make - nobody thinks that everything is suddenly going to be perfect. But, we will be much more patient with Chris than we would be with any other manager when we do play badly, when he does make wrong decisions and when we do lose games. This is exactly what the club has been needing ever since we got relegated from the Premiership - belief and a feeling of unity.
As far as the comparisons are concerned, I can't see how you can compare Chris Powell to Alan Pardew , Dougie Freedman or Alan Shearer. Pards played less than half the number of games for Charlton that Chrissy did, and I think played for Palace more times than he did for us. He is nowhere near as much of a Charlton 'legend'. And I think most people in the football world would agree that Chris has a more legitimate claim to management than either Dougie Freedman or Alan Shearer when he joined Newcastle (ex-PFA chairman, World Cup ambassador, worked under ex-England manager, I could go on).
Yes, I agree with this. I think Henry has slightly misinterpreted why so many people are so happy. Many of us (not all) believe that Charlton stands for something in football, and bloody hell, if any one man represents that, it is Chris Powell (followed closely by Peter Varney). And he has been appointed despite persistent rumours that it might have been Dennis Wise - whom many of us believe represents everything we don't want to be. In appointing Chris the Board has shown that they might actually be quite in tune with the 'soul' of Charlton. That is the point, that no other appointment could possibly have delivered, perhaps not even Curbs.
I am just gutted i cant be there for his homecoming. Its going to be a great Charlton moment.
[cite]Posted By: gilbertfilbert[/cite]I agree, Henry. Most of all, we have to give him time. There's not going to be an overnight transformation.
I'm sure the fans will but will the board?
Spot on article Henry and you pose the key question.
I read CP's appointment as an indication that, for the moment, Reg carries some serious weight in decision-making. That wasn't a given, in my view, when the change of ownership was announced. Next test will be ticket prices for next season.
Let's hope it remains the case and that the new owners (more importantly the new backers) have patience.
Good point of Peter Varney's influence although I feel the CP would still have had to impress Slater and Jiminez and clearly he has. I'm not surprised as he is clearly an impressive person.
Can't say yet on ticket prices but there was a Target 40k meeting last night of which the new board were aware of and supportive to, recommendations were agreed on by the committee and they will be presented to the board. As before the takeover the board can agree or not agree.
[cite]Posted By: gilbertfilbert[/cite]I agree, Henry. Most of all, we have to give him time. There's not going to be an overnight transformation.
I'm sure the fans will but will the board?
Well, let's not underestimate the board quite yet. Not only did they sack parky (as the majority wanted) and appointed Chris (same applies) but have offered him a 3 1/2 yr contract. Surely if they were demanding instant success then they would have (a) appointed someone with more managerial experience, and (b) not offered him such a long deal to start with. If promotion doesn't happen this season then i'm sure he'll be given time to build his own team over the summer before he is judged. I for one am glad they haven't gone down the route of a "quick-fix" solution. The board have my trust until they show otherwise.
I think Henry has slightly misinterpreted why so many people are so happy. Many of us (not all) believe that Charlton stands for something in football, and bloody hell, if any one man represents that, it is Chris Powell (followed closely by Peter Varney). And he has been appointed despite persistent rumours that it might have been Dennis Wise - whom many of us believe represents everything we don't want to be. In appointing Chris the Board has shown that they might actually be quite in tune with the 'soul' of Charlton. That is the point, that no other appointment could possibly have delivered, perhaps not even Curbs.
I am just gutted i cant be there for his homecoming. Its going to be a great Charlton moment.
[cite]Posted By: lacole[/cite]Can't say I agree with this fully. The vast majority of fans already understand the points you make - nobody thinks that everything is suddenly going to be perfect. But, we will be much more patient with Chris than we would be with any other manager when we do play badly, when he does make wrong decisions and when we do lose games. This is exactly what the club has been needing ever since we got relegated from the Premiership - belief and a feeling of unity.
As far as the comparisons are concerned, I can't see how you can compare Chris Powell to Alan Pardew , Dougie Freedman or Alan Shearer. Pards played less than half the number of games for Charlton that Chrissy did, and I think played for Palace more times than he did for us. He is nowhere near as much of a Charlton 'legend'. And I think most people in the football world would agree that Chris has a more legitimate claim to management than either Dougie Freedman or Alan Shearer when he joined Newcastle (ex-PFA chairman, World Cup ambassador, worked under ex-England manager, I could go on).
Yes, I agree with this. I think Henry has slightly misinterpreted why so many people are so happy. Many of us (not all) believe that Charlton stands for something in football, and bloody hell, if any one man represents that, it is Chris Powell (followed closely by Peter Varney). And he has been appointed despite persistent rumours that it might have been Dennis Wise - whom many of us believe represents everything we don't want to be. In appointing Chris the Board has shown that they might actually be quite in tune with the 'soul' of Charlton. That is the point, that no other appointment could possibly have delivered, perhaps not even Curbs.
I am just gutted i cant be there for his homecoming. Its going to be a great Charlton moment.
I wasn't talking about being happy! I'm happy.
But you're doing it now PA. "The "soul" of Charlton, No other appointment could have delivered?" Chris is going to have his work cut out re-building the squad and their confidence, dealing with being a manager for the first time and a lot more without you expecting him to be guardian of our collective soul. Just let him get on with his job.
[cite]Posted By: PragueAddick[/cite]In appointing Chris the Board has shown that they might actually be quite in tune with the 'soul' of Charlton.
Murray and Varney have always been Charlton supporters, long before they became involved with running the club.
Hopefully this heartbeat of Charlton values at Board level continues to have clout.
I agree with Prague Addick more often than not but believing that there is such a thing as a Charlton soul is quite beyond me. The fans of every football club in the land thinks that their club is 'special', 'unique', 'different'. The reality is that, like most of us, they went to their local team and enjoyed the experience and repeated it, and repeated it sufficiently for it to become a habit. To that habit they attach a greater significance than the reality and it begins to take on vaguely religious tones. I am attached to Charlton and have been to varying degrees since my dad took me to a game in 1949 but in all that time I have never detected a Charlton 'soul', merely a group of (mostly) blokes who go to footie games.
I agree with Prague Addick more often than not but believing that there is such a thing as a Charlton soul is quite beyond me. The fans of every football club in the land thinks that their club is 'special', 'unique', 'different'. The reality is that, like most of us, they went to their local team and enjoyed the experience and repeated it, and repeated it sufficiently for it to become a habit. To that habit they attach a greater significance than the reality and it begins to take on vaguely religious tones. I am attached to Charlton and have been to varying degrees since my dad took me to a game in 1949 but in all that time I have never detected a Charlton 'soul', merely a group of (mostly) blokes who go to footie games.
Pardew never described Charlton as his ''spirirtual home'' and no Charlton fan I know ever regarded his appointment as a ''homecoming'', even though most welcomed it.
TBH, I think even our youngest and most inexperienced 'junior reds' know enough to realise Powell will lose matches and that promotion this season is going to be bloody tough.
A week ago, I thought going up this year was the be all and end all. But if SCP needs another season, of course he can have it, as far as I'm concerned. I'm pretty sure 99 per cent of fans and the owners will feel the same. A three and a half year contract is about building something special. And we all know that is not going to happen overnight with the existing bunch of players.
So why not just enjoy this moment - and the fact that the club right now seems more unified than for several seasons? We can worry about the future when it happens. With any luck, it's going to be a glorious one. If not, we're all grown-ups and we are well used to dealing with disappointments as Charlton fans. But we don't need warnings of possible failure before the bloke has even started.
[cite]Posted By: incorruptible addick[/cite]Powell and Pardew = chalk and cheese.
Pardew never described Charlton as his ''spirirtual home'' and no Charlton fan I know ever regarded his appointment as a ''homecoming'', even though most welcomed it.
I think a lot of us welcomed his appointment because he was an experienced manager with a decent track record - doh!
[cite]Posted By: gilbertfilbert[/cite]Who's got the matches?
Me :-)
You've been going since 1949 and didn't detect the soul of Charlton Athletic Football Club? You went to Selhurst, I presume, when against all the odds we went back to the top flight? When we stayed there against all the odds? When a bloke with a slightly mad gleam in his eye thrust a piece of paper entitled "Voice of the Valley" into your hand? When we all chanted, petitioned, cleaned up the Valley,played a mass game on the turf after we finished and got the final go ahead to go home? Then when Greenwich Council tried to snatch it away, we formed a political party to thrash their asses off in the local elections? When so many of those involved in the Valley Party went on to work for the club? When we stumbled on the path home, found ourselves at Upton Park and dug deep to raise a million quid in the VIP scheme? To finally get back home to our beloved bedraggled Valley when a harder headed decision might have seen our Board build some tin shed by the M25? To have Richard Murray and Martin Simons , the latter a man who would go for a drink with fans and buy all the rounds after games we had lost!? To rebuild the Ground and the club bit by bit, with ground breaking initiatives generated by the fans, such as Target 10000/40000, the fan on the board, Valley Express, the innovative pricing schemes which everyone else copied? The anti racist work, the initiatives that generated stories like this? or the memorable comment from one national newspaper reporter that "there might be better teams in the Premier League - but there is surely no better club" ? Richard Murray's futile efforts, chronicled in Tom Bower's tale of footie sleaze, to spread the TV money around for the greater good of football? And finally a left back who joined us at the back end of a journeyman career, and through sheer professional dedication earned his first England cap at the age of 31, and who celebrated every win with the Covered End?
And you want to tell me, that this club is just like any other, that it doesnt have a soul ?
Well let me give you this little test Nadou. Rewind the last 25 years of Chelsea for example. How would you define the soul of that club?
Just watched SCP interview and now read PA's post above. Think I need a lie down... Plymouth at home will be a special, special occasion. Wish I could be there!!
[quote][cite]Posted By: PragueAddick[/cite][quote][cite]Posted By: gilbertfilbert[/cite]Who's got the matches?[/quote]
Well let me give you this little test Nadou. Rewind the last 25 years of Chelsea for example. How would you define the soul of that club?[/quote]
PA - you would have to ask a long term Chelsea supporter that question. But personally I do not believe that such an amorphous thing as a bunch of supporters has a soul.
Comments
Some fans seem to be working themselves up into a frenzy of devotion for our new manager before he has even signed on the dotted line.
Any word of doubt or caution is being dismissed as a show of disloyalty, heresy almost. It seems that the option now is unswerving, unquestioning loyalty to the new manager or excommunication from the Valley faithful.
It is frighteningly reminiscent of the arrival of the last messiah at the Valley, Alan Pardew. He too was hailed, by most, as the second coming; a demi-god of football management who would save us from relegation. He turned out to have feet very much made of clay (and yes I see the irony of using a reference from the book of Daniel here).
Now before you issue a fatwa or organise a stoning for this non-believer I'll say how happy I am that he is returned. I wish him all the luck in the world and I so so want him to succeed. But then again I want every Charlton manager to succeed, those I like and those I don't, because I want the Club to succeed.
More than that I think he will succeed. He has served his time as a coach, got his badges, learnt his trade and he has the good fortune to pick up a semi-decent set of players in a position to challenge for at least the play-offs along with a new board willing, or so it would seem, to back him financially in the transfer/loan market.
But be warned. His team will lose games. His teams will play badly. How do I know? Because every manager loses games sometimes and every team plays badly at times. The successful teams and the successful managers just do it less than the rest.
There will be times too when his teams don't play like the current Barca team or 1960 Real Madrid side. Sometimes they will grind out results like every good team has to. You may even see a league one defender punt the ball 60 yards to clear his lines and give the defence the chance to re-shape. If I remember rightly there was a certain left back at Charlton, England international as well, who wasn't adverse to doing that when he needed to.
And when we lose or play badly there will be boos. Not from me but there will be boos because that is what people do. Not just at the Valley but every ground up and down the country. It's stupid but it happens. Hopefully it will be very rare and when it happens it will be drowned out by shouts of encouragement.
Those who are expressing doubts or pointing out his lack of experience are being honest and largely reflecting what many Charlton fans would have said (and have said) when similar appointments have been made at Newcastle and very recently at Palace.
They are not wishing failure on him but neither are they putting unrealistic burdens of expectation on the new guy's very human shoulders.[/quote]
Well said Henry, after looking at most of the posts i feel that i am drowning in a lake of hyperbole. I have heard talk of the second coming but this is ridiculous.
Careful now. Down with this sort of thing.
Then in reply to a response: "I know mate, it's hard not to get carried away with it all."
So you doom merchants, listen up... the Word of Chris is spreading!
As far as the comparisons are concerned, I can't see how you can compare Chris Powell to Alan Pardew , Dougie Freedman or Alan Shearer. Pards played less than half the number of games for Charlton that Chrissy did, and I think played for Palace more times than he did for us. He is nowhere near as much of a Charlton 'legend'. And I think most people in the football world would agree that Chris has a more legitimate claim to management than either Dougie Freedman or Alan Shearer when he joined Newcastle (ex-PFA chairman, World Cup ambassador, worked under ex-England manager, I could go on).
Spot on article Henry and you pose the key question.
I read CP's appointment as an indication that, for the moment, Reg carries some serious weight in decision-making. That wasn't a given, in my view, when the change of ownership was announced. Next test will be ticket prices for next season.
Let's hope it remains the case and that the new owners (more importantly the new backers) have patience.
Or, because he is 'proper Charlton', does he get an extended timeframe .... say, by the end of next season?
Some people (not me) might find such a notion 'bizarre'.
Most yes but others, a few, have been evangelising CP and refusing to accept doubters legitimate worries.
Unfair. The ground is not the same as a manager, I'm enjoying the moment a lot and hope everyone else is too and I'm not trying to foresee loads of issues down the line.
Yes, I agree with this. I think Henry has slightly misinterpreted why so many people are so happy. Many of us (not all) believe that Charlton stands for something in football, and bloody hell, if any one man represents that, it is Chris Powell (followed closely by Peter Varney). And he has been appointed despite persistent rumours that it might have been Dennis Wise - whom many of us believe represents everything we don't want to be. In appointing Chris the Board has shown that they might actually be quite in tune with the 'soul' of Charlton. That is the point, that no other appointment could possibly have delivered, perhaps not even Curbs.
I am just gutted i cant be there for his homecoming. Its going to be a great Charlton moment.
Good point of Peter Varney's influence although I feel the CP would still have had to impress Slater and Jiminez and clearly he has. I'm not surprised as he is clearly an impressive person.
Can't say yet on ticket prices but there was a Target 40k meeting last night of which the new board were aware of and supportive to, recommendations were agreed on by the committee and they will be presented to the board. As before the takeover the board can agree or not agree.
I wasn't talking about being happy! I'm happy.
But you're doing it now PA. "The "soul" of Charlton, No other appointment could have delivered?" Chris is going to have his work cut out re-building the squad and their confidence, dealing with being a manager for the first time and a lot more without you expecting him to be guardian of our collective soul. Just let him get on with his job.
Murray and Varney have always been Charlton supporters, long before they became involved with running the club.
Hopefully this heartbeat of Charlton values at Board level continues to have clout.
Burn the heretic ;0)
I took the article as a 'steady now, let's not raise expectations too much and in turn put too much pressure on'
But I'm too happy too be worried about all those sensibilities at the moment.
I agree that's what the original article meant, especially the too much pressure, but he just waffled on as usual.
Pardew never described Charlton as his ''spirirtual home'' and no Charlton fan I know ever regarded his appointment as a ''homecoming'', even though most welcomed it.
TBH, I think even our youngest and most inexperienced 'junior reds' know enough to realise Powell will lose matches and that promotion this season is going to be bloody tough.
A week ago, I thought going up this year was the be all and end all. But if SCP needs another season, of course he can have it, as far as I'm concerned. I'm pretty sure 99 per cent of fans and the owners will feel the same. A three and a half year contract is about building something special. And we all know that is not going to happen overnight with the existing bunch of players.
So why not just enjoy this moment - and the fact that the club right now seems more unified than for several seasons? We can worry about the future when it happens. With any luck, it's going to be a glorious one. If not, we're all grown-ups and we are well used to dealing with disappointments as Charlton fans. But we don't need warnings of possible failure before the bloke has even started.
Doh! Why didn't you say so? I agree.
I think a lot of us welcomed his appointment because he was an experienced manager with a decent track record - doh!
Me :-)
You've been going since 1949 and didn't detect the soul of Charlton Athletic Football Club? You went to Selhurst, I presume, when against all the odds we went back to the top flight? When we stayed there against all the odds? When a bloke with a slightly mad gleam in his eye thrust a piece of paper entitled "Voice of the Valley" into your hand? When we all chanted, petitioned, cleaned up the Valley,played a mass game on the turf after we finished and got the final go ahead to go home? Then when Greenwich Council tried to snatch it away, we formed a political party to thrash their asses off in the local elections? When so many of those involved in the Valley Party went on to work for the club? When we stumbled on the path home, found ourselves at Upton Park and dug deep to raise a million quid in the VIP scheme? To finally get back home to our beloved bedraggled Valley when a harder headed decision might have seen our Board build some tin shed by the M25? To have Richard Murray and Martin Simons , the latter a man who would go for a drink with fans and buy all the rounds after games we had lost!? To rebuild the Ground and the club bit by bit, with ground breaking initiatives generated by the fans, such as Target 10000/40000, the fan on the board, Valley Express, the innovative pricing schemes which everyone else copied? The anti racist work, the initiatives that generated stories like this? or the memorable comment from one national newspaper reporter that "there might be better teams in the Premier League - but there is surely no better club" ? Richard Murray's futile efforts, chronicled in Tom Bower's tale of footie sleaze, to spread the TV money around for the greater good of football? And finally a left back who joined us at the back end of a journeyman career, and through sheer professional dedication earned his first England cap at the age of 31, and who celebrated every win with the Covered End?
And you want to tell me, that this club is just like any other, that it doesnt have a soul ?
Well let me give you this little test Nadou. Rewind the last 25 years of Chelsea for example. How would you define the soul of that club?
Well let me give you this little test Nadou. Rewind the last 25 years of Chelsea for example. How would you define the soul of that club?[/quote]
PA - you would have to ask a long term Chelsea supporter that question. But personally I do not believe that such an amorphous thing as a bunch of supporters has a soul.