[cite]Posted By: leftbehind[/cite]Not bothered about whose cock up as for offending Muslims all you need to do is cook bacon and they are up in arms and burning the bible rioting and burning flags so TBH F**k em just hate to see another £650m leave the country when Jobs are going left right and centre our armed forces are being cut back when Islamists are the main threat to us. Also our own education system is facing Billions in cuts but we have money to give there schools.
Totally wrong
Congratulations - that may just be the single most ignorant post I've ever read on here.
Which part?
Actually - pretty much all of it - but the part about cooking bacon is especially slavering and idiotic.
Yopu not read about the cafe in Coventry who are fighting the fact the local Muslims have complained that teh smell of bacon is offending them?
Will try and find the article it was in the papers a week or so ago
So yeah real idiotic i take it you meant them not me ;-)
Hmm...going to be interesting to see how they are going to push the blame onto the last administration for yet another countries economy going down the pan. Nothing to do with their friends in the worldwide banking industry lending money they didn't have, to people who were never going to pay it back - it's all Labours fault don't you know!
People are beginning to suss out this coalition - Of course cuts were needed but so is growth - you have to strike the balance and not be wedded so much to your own doctrine and agendas. Labour who are not blameless but not as culpable as is being portaryed are probably more than happy they lost the last election - will be in power again within 2 or 3 years tops.
No, the world financial crisis got us into this mess- before that happened Labour were borrowing less money than the conservatives before them. Gordon Brown as chancellor was jokingly referred to as 'the great regulator' by the tories who then went on to criticise and blame him with the benefit of hindsight, for not regulating the banks- but if he had, they would have been the first to claim he was stifling the economy. When the crisis broke- the Government's actions and handling was applauded across the world - including America, where we were seen as a leading example.
If you stifle the economy by cutting too quickly it costs you more because of the money you lose from potential growth. The economy was beginning to grow under Labour and is now faltering. If we are lucky we will avoid a double dip recession, but allowing growth to continue to grow was the best way to make an unavoidably painful process, a bit less painful.
[cite]Posted By: MuttleyCAFC[/cite]I'm no expert but it seems to my simple mind that the bail out is about protecting a currency (the Euro) which we are not part of. Surely the only countries that should sign up to that are those using the Euro. Having said that, maybe somebody who is more enlightened than me can explain the importance to this country of the Euro not failing and then of course it would be easy to understand and justify helping them out.
We are signed up to the EU but not the EERM so I am told. We like to have our notes and coins displaying the Queen's head on them, and rightly so imo.
As for helping out other nations, its the same as Red Nose Day isn't it. You're in debt but still manage to muster up a few quid for the cause.
I'd rather a few million going to help countries such as Pakistan than the billions that go into wars we can't win. Apart from being humanitarian, if you want to be selfish, If you help countries, it might help persuade their youth not to bomb us in future and their authorities to co-operate more which is a more effective tool in the 'war on terror' than killing them and also your own young people.
Because foreign aid is clearly just a blank cheque with which developing countries can buy what ever they like. Bizarre to say it but perhaps people are not being cynical enough.
Foreign aid is tied up in trade deals, arms contracts, long term interest offsetting, cheap raw materials, getting lucrative access to markets and raw materials and restricting the access of others. When we give so called 'international aid', its not because we are soft, wooly and Liberal. Its because we are looking after our interests in a pretty ruthless way.
WSS's wonga.com comment not so far from the truth and Henry careful with the Coventry comments ;)
Always try and avoid these debates such as this on here as lets face it, everyone's opinions are polls apart, which is fine when kept to football terms etc, but with others just leads to divisions and a bad taste in the mouth.
How supporting an EU economy can be related to the smell of bacon in Coventry, its enough to make you laugh.
Should we be assisting Portugal in effectively bailing out the euro ? I doubt a single person on here has the slightest knowledge of what the knock on impact would have on our import / export industry, or the general impact on this country if Portugal or the euro, failed.
As for those that kick up a fuss about aid to Pakistan for example. Firstly, we are committed to spending 0.7% of our GDP on overseas aid as set out by the United Nations. What is a waste of that resource is the amount that doesn't even leave the country from that budget, wasted on a bloated Department for International Development, and awareness and promotion in an attempt to justify the overseas aid.
A number of those that kick up a fuss and tell you what a shitehole this country is and how much we need to sort this country out first, normally live in a house, get public transport to work in an air conditioned office with a nice water cooler in the corner, get the public transport home via a pub to sit down and watch satelite tv in the warm with their heating on, and eat a nice meal that's just popped out their electric oven.
Pakistan for example, just nine months ago experienced ten years rainfall in one week, the floods spanning the size of England and effecting 20 million people. Those who survived lost everything. UK aid has provided tents and shelter to 1.3 million people, basic health care to 2.3 million people and safe drinking water to millions more.
Aside from the humanitarian angle, Pakistan is a country that within its borders harbours the growth and training of terrorists with evil intentions against the west. The West need continued co-operation and intelligence to stay on top of those groups, and if there is a price to pay to foster better relations between the Pakistan government and the West then i'm afraid that its in everyone's best interests. If our non-humanitarian aid goes actively towards education and the benefit of their people, there is more chance that attitudes towards the west are likely to be improved than worsened.
Even in times of hardship here, i'm fully behind overseas aid as our times of hardship are by average, laughable compared to the living conditions and distress seen throughout a great deal of the world.
I just want to be sure its being spent in the right way, and sadly i doubt that it is.
We do not actually give money to Portugal as part of the bailout, what we do is underwrite them/the money. We will charge them interest for doing so and probably make some money out of it in the process.
The Daily Mail piece that LB obliquely referred to was subsequently exposed (as so much in that shitrag is) as utter bollocks. The cafe owner in question hadn't applied for the requisite planning permission for a vent from her cafe, and had installed it in such a manner that it was belching out grease fumes directly into a neighbour's window. It was f***-all to do with the neighbours being 'muslamic' - and everything to do with the cafe owner being an idiot and the knuckle-dragging press trying to create another controversial story about muslims.
Honestly - anyone with an IQ above that of foliage must surely know that these stories are complete shit when they read them? How many times can you see a story exposed as crap and still believe the next one that crops up?
In any case, irrespective of whether this story happened to be true (it wasn't), and even if one lone nutter complained to the local council about the smell of pork and managed to get the vent removed as a result, does it hold that all muslims are 'up in arms, burning the bible'? Of course it f***ing well doesn't. Grow up.
[cite]Posted By: Cordoban Addick[/cite]We do not actually give money to Portugal as part of the bailout, what we do is underwrite them/the money. We will charge them interest for doing so and probably make some money out of it in the process.
If (when) they default Britain WILL have to cough up. How much we are in for regarding Portugal is still in the air but various figures between £3-£6 billion have been quoted. £4.5 billion is probably a fair estimate. Don't forget Greece and Ireland either. Greece in particular are showing real signs of being likely to default which when it happens will cost us billions.
The issue for me is not so much bailing out the Euro per se (although I am against that when our own are suffering hardship) but the deception of both Conservative and Labour politicians who glibly spoke of treaties "tidying things up" whilst the reality is a democratically elected British Government as permanently impotent as I would be after 10 pints!
When is the exchange rate going to move in favour of the £ so my summer holiday is much cheaper?
Have to laugh along with Leroy. Another dangerous non-story that is used to bash Muslamics but people will either just ignore the fact that it was lies or will just find another that backs up their world view and believe it regardless.
[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]When is the exchange rate going to move in favour of the £ so my summer holiday is much cheaper?
Have to laugh along with Leroy. Another dangerous non-story that is used to bash Muslamics but people will either just ignore the fact that it was lies or will just find another that backs up their world view and believe it regardless.
[cite]Posted By: Cordoban Addick[/cite]We do not actually give money to Portugal as part of the bailout, what we do is underwrite them/the money. We will charge them interest for doing so and probably make some money out of it in the process.
If (when) they default Britain WILL have to cough up. How much we are in for regarding Portugal is still in the air but various figures between £3-£6 billion have been quoted. £4.5 billion is probably a fair estimate. Don't forget Greece and Ireland either. Greece in particular are showing real signs of being likely to default which when it happens will cost us billions.
The issue for me is not so much bailing out the Euro per se (although I am against that when our own are suffering hardship) but the deception of both Conservative and Labour politicians who glibly spoke of treaties "tidying things up" whilst the reality is a democratically elected British Government as permanently impotent as I would be after 10 pints!
If we as a nation what to join economic clubs, then we have to play by the rules. I think in this instant most of the money we "agree to back" is because of our membership of the IMF, the rest is from membership of the EU. Other EU nations who are members of the Euro Zone will have to pay an additional support which we don't need to do. I really don't think that the Portugese or the Irish will default, but I am concerened the bailout will be used as a justification for our own cuts.
[cite]Posted By: Leroy Ambrose[/cite]The Daily Mail piece that LB obliquely referred to was subsequently exposed (as so much in that shitrag is) as utter bollocks. The cafe owner in question hadn't applied for the requisite planning permission for a vent from her cafe, and had installed it in such a manner that it was belching out grease fumes directly into a neighbour's window. It was f***-all to do with the neighbours being 'muslamic' - and everything to do with the cafe owner being an idiot and the knuckle-dragging press trying to create another controversial story about muslims.
Honestly - anyone with an IQ above that of foliage must surely know that these stories are complete shit when they read them? How many times can you see a story exposed as crap and still believe the next one that crops up?
In any case, irrespective of whether this story happened to be true (it wasn't), and even if one lone nutter complained to the local council about the smell of pork and managed to get the vent removed as a result, does it hold that all muslims are 'up in arms, burning the bible'? Of course it f***ing well doesn't. Grow up.
For the sake of good order, I would like to point out, that it was not the newspaper that made up the "muslim" piece, but it was in fact the complaining neighbour.
The neighbour thought it would give more gravitas to his complaint, by saying that his muslim friends who visited him objected.
However, none of them did and none of them would back up his claim.
(That is what I recall reading).
[quote][cite]Posted By: Cordoban Addick[/cite][quote][cite]Posted By: LenGlover[/cite][quote][cite]Posted By: Cordoban Addick[/cite]We do not actually give money to Portugal as part of the bailout, what we do is underwrite them/the money. We will charge them interest for doing so and probably make some money out of it in the process.[/quote]
If (when) they default Britain WILL have to cough up. How much we are in for regarding Portugal is still in the air but various figures between £3-£6 billion have been quoted. £4.5 billion is probably a fair estimate. Don't forget Greece and Ireland either. Greece in particular are showing real signs of being likely to default which when it happens will cost us billions.
The issue for me is not so much bailing out the Euro per se (although I am against that when our own are suffering hardship) but the deception of both Conservative and Labour politicians who glibly spoke of treaties "tidying things up" whilst the reality is a democratically elected British Government as permanently impotent as I would be after 10 pints![/quote]
If we as a nation what to join economic clubs, then we have to play by the rules. I think in this instant most of the money we "agree to back" is because of our membership of the IMF, the rest is from membership of the EU. Other EU nations who are members of the Euro Zone will have to pay an additional support which we don't need to do. I really don't think that the Portugese or the Irish will default, but I am concerened the bailout will be used as a justification for our own cuts.[/quote]
According to The Guardian, the only newspaper given credence by the Charlton Life Forum Police, we are in for £4.4 billion via the EU and an unspecified additional amount via the IMF.
I agree that if we as a nation want to join economic and, more relevantly political clubs then we have to play by the rules. However I would argue that the people of the UK have NOT been given the chance to express their views despite both Gordon Brown and David Cameron promising referendums as they both subsequently reneged on those promises.
In other words do we (the people) as a nation want to be in the club or is it just the political class of the nation?
Bashing muslims oooooo dear yes of course happens all the time in the twaddle world that some on here live in.
overseas aid ? of course we should being one ofthe richest countrys in the World. Should we be incresing it ? or giving it to India and China no f**Kin way.
Just to add fuel to the flames, Portugal cheats all the time on EU rules, they have just postponed putting illegal tolls on motorways paid for by the EU, but only because of the PM resigning, otherwise they were going ahead with it anyway, and probably still will...
Comments
We joined the EU, they tell us what to do.
One of the many down sides to doing away with our parliamentary sovereignty
Right, cos it was the coalition that got us into this mess....
When Labour lost the election as a country we had to borrow £1 for every £4 we spent. Madness.
If you stifle the economy by cutting too quickly it costs you more because of the money you lose from potential growth. The economy was beginning to grow under Labour and is now faltering. If we are lucky we will avoid a double dip recession, but allowing growth to continue to grow was the best way to make an unavoidably painful process, a bit less painful.
We are signed up to the EU but not the EERM so I am told. We like to have our notes and coins displaying the Queen's head on them, and rightly so imo.
As for helping out other nations, its the same as Red Nose Day isn't it. You're in debt but still manage to muster up a few quid for the cause.
Foreign aid is tied up in trade deals, arms contracts, long term interest offsetting, cheap raw materials, getting lucrative access to markets and raw materials and restricting the access of others. When we give so called 'international aid', its not because we are soft, wooly and Liberal. Its because we are looking after our interests in a pretty ruthless way.
WSS's wonga.com comment not so far from the truth and Henry careful with the Coventry comments ;)
How supporting an EU economy can be related to the smell of bacon in Coventry, its enough to make you laugh.
Should we be assisting Portugal in effectively bailing out the euro ? I doubt a single person on here has the slightest knowledge of what the knock on impact would have on our import / export industry, or the general impact on this country if Portugal or the euro, failed.
As for those that kick up a fuss about aid to Pakistan for example. Firstly, we are committed to spending 0.7% of our GDP on overseas aid as set out by the United Nations. What is a waste of that resource is the amount that doesn't even leave the country from that budget, wasted on a bloated Department for International Development, and awareness and promotion in an attempt to justify the overseas aid.
A number of those that kick up a fuss and tell you what a shitehole this country is and how much we need to sort this country out first, normally live in a house, get public transport to work in an air conditioned office with a nice water cooler in the corner, get the public transport home via a pub to sit down and watch satelite tv in the warm with their heating on, and eat a nice meal that's just popped out their electric oven.
Pakistan for example, just nine months ago experienced ten years rainfall in one week, the floods spanning the size of England and effecting 20 million people. Those who survived lost everything. UK aid has provided tents and shelter to 1.3 million people, basic health care to 2.3 million people and safe drinking water to millions more.
Aside from the humanitarian angle, Pakistan is a country that within its borders harbours the growth and training of terrorists with evil intentions against the west. The West need continued co-operation and intelligence to stay on top of those groups, and if there is a price to pay to foster better relations between the Pakistan government and the West then i'm afraid that its in everyone's best interests. If our non-humanitarian aid goes actively towards education and the benefit of their people, there is more chance that attitudes towards the west are likely to be improved than worsened.
Even in times of hardship here, i'm fully behind overseas aid as our times of hardship are by average, laughable compared to the living conditions and distress seen throughout a great deal of the world.
I just want to be sure its being spent in the right way, and sadly i doubt that it is.
Honestly - anyone with an IQ above that of foliage must surely know that these stories are complete shit when they read them? How many times can you see a story exposed as crap and still believe the next one that crops up?
In any case, irrespective of whether this story happened to be true (it wasn't), and even if one lone nutter complained to the local council about the smell of pork and managed to get the vent removed as a result, does it hold that all muslims are 'up in arms, burning the bible'? Of course it f***ing well doesn't. Grow up.
If (when) they default Britain WILL have to cough up. How much we are in for regarding Portugal is still in the air but various figures between £3-£6 billion have been quoted. £4.5 billion is probably a fair estimate. Don't forget Greece and Ireland either. Greece in particular are showing real signs of being likely to default which when it happens will cost us billions.
The issue for me is not so much bailing out the Euro per se (although I am against that when our own are suffering hardship) but the deception of both Conservative and Labour politicians who glibly spoke of treaties "tidying things up" whilst the reality is a democratically elected British Government as permanently impotent as I would be after 10 pints!
Any questions?
Whoopee!
Have to laugh along with Leroy. Another dangerous non-story that is used to bash Muslamics but people will either just ignore the fact that it was lies or will just find another that backs up their world view and believe it regardless.
And Coventry is a long way from Pakistan.
Whatever you do dont buy at the airport.
If we as a nation what to join economic clubs, then we have to play by the rules. I think in this instant most of the money we "agree to back" is because of our membership of the IMF, the rest is from membership of the EU. Other EU nations who are members of the Euro Zone will have to pay an additional support which we don't need to do. I really don't think that the Portugese or the Irish will default, but I am concerened the bailout will be used as a justification for our own cuts.
For the sake of good order, I would like to point out, that it was not the newspaper that made up the "muslim" piece, but it was in fact the complaining neighbour.
The neighbour thought it would give more gravitas to his complaint, by saying that his muslim friends who visited him objected.
However, none of them did and none of them would back up his claim.
(That is what I recall reading).
If (when) they default Britain WILL have to cough up. How much we are in for regarding Portugal is still in the air but various figures between £3-£6 billion have been quoted. £4.5 billion is probably a fair estimate. Don't forget Greece and Ireland either. Greece in particular are showing real signs of being likely to default which when it happens will cost us billions.
The issue for me is not so much bailing out the Euro per se (although I am against that when our own are suffering hardship) but the deception of both Conservative and Labour politicians who glibly spoke of treaties "tidying things up" whilst the reality is a democratically elected British Government as permanently impotent as I would be after 10 pints![/quote]
If we as a nation what to join economic clubs, then we have to play by the rules. I think in this instant most of the money we "agree to back" is because of our membership of the IMF, the rest is from membership of the EU. Other EU nations who are members of the Euro Zone will have to pay an additional support which we don't need to do. I really don't think that the Portugese or the Irish will default, but I am concerened the bailout will be used as a justification for our own cuts.[/quote]
According to The Guardian, the only newspaper given credence by the Charlton Life Forum Police, we are in for £4.4 billion via the EU and an unspecified additional amount via the IMF.
I agree that if we as a nation want to join economic and, more relevantly political clubs then we have to play by the rules. However I would argue that the people of the UK have NOT been given the chance to express their views despite both Gordon Brown and David Cameron promising referendums as they both subsequently reneged on those promises.
In other words do we (the people) as a nation want to be in the club or is it just the political class of the nation?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/feedarticle/9585354
overseas aid ? of course we should being one ofthe richest countrys in the World. Should we be incresing it ? or giving it to India and China no f**Kin way.