Are Our Academies Too Focused On Size?

Addick Addict

It is pretty well documented that seven of the ten Barcelona ten outfield players in the CL Final were under 5' 9" in height and six of those came through their academy. How many of our kids are dismissed at an early age in favour of the more physically developed boys and give up the game as a result or turn to other sports? 

If this is the case will that attitude change and are we going to see more of a focus on technique a la Barca and Ajax?

LenGlover

It is pretty well documented that seven of the ten Barcelona ten outfield players in the CL Final were under 5' 9" in height and six of those came through their academy. How many of our kids are dismissed at an early age in favour of the more physically developed boys and give up the game as a result or turn to other sports? 

If this is the case will that attitude change and are we going to see more of a focus on technique a la Barca and Ajax?

I don't think we can be accused of that at Charlton over the last few seasons.

We seem to be a team of midgets!

Charltonparklane

God I hope so, academies are overrun with over age African kids who can run 100m in 11 secs but are shit footballers.

FACT

Scoham

If this is the case will that attitude change and are we going to see more of a focus on technique a la Barca and Ajax? 

Hopefully that will start to change throughout the country.

At Charlton I'm not so sure. Our youth teams try to play good passing football. We've had smaller players in the reserves and u18s in recent years but they've just not been good enough to break into the first team. In fact we've given a smaller more technical player in Davisson new contract. Solly and Harriott aren't big either, I'm sure Powell will give smaller players from the academy a chance if they're good enough.

Dizzle

 

One of my mates used to play for our academy. Danny Phillips. He got player of the tournament at a youth tournament with Barcelona, a dutch team and someone else and was then released at the end of the season for being too small in height

Henry Irving

Interesting article in FourFourTwo this month about how modern football is obsessed with pace over other attributes.

There does seem to have been a move away from the powerhouse player predicted as the coming thing a few years ago.

Barca are part of that but also I guess that there are only so many 6' 4'' players with enough skill to make it.

Big clubs will still prefer a good big 'un to a good little 'un so we often get left with the latter IMHO

ken from bexley

Excellent point Addick....... I cannot comment on the current crop of youngsters, but all clubs favoured the larger sized footballers about 10 years ago!........

In the Kent league, several lads were released or ended up at clubs like Cray Valley,Gravesend, Bromley, and so on from the academies. Goal keepers even at 6 foot were rejected because of there height. I remember having quite a debate with a scout from Westham about this. When I pointed out that Owen, Rooney,Shearer, and Defoe were hardly 'giants' ,  I was told that 'the size and speed were paramount' they could teach the rest!....... really!. 

Hayles was the captain @ West-ham, and played for England,( victory shield) my son used to play alongside him in the school team, and took his place in the Kent team when the club wanted  him not to play county football he was not that big, my own son was not that big!, but try and get the ball off them!. 

Clubs know what they want, but to reject a lad because he is not a certain centile at age 16, seems rather inprecise!. 

As you so rightly point out it is ability, and a good footballing brain that you need. Try  telling messrs Tevez, Fabregas,to name just two sorry nice player, but you are a short arse!...... Did they not have a height requirement in the police, they seem like midgets these days!

alangee

I thought Danny Green was let go because of his size.

scruffle

Not read ppls comments but our academy WAS far too focused on size, my colleagues son wasnt given a full term training role (u14's/15's) due to his size and demoted to the developement squad and told they would look at him if he ha d agrowth spurt. 

However this has been adressed, he was moved back from the devlopement squad about 3/4 months ago, even though is tiny for his size and has had no 'growth spurt' and his father stated that the club have had a change in direction in regards to recruiting youngsters and are looking at more technical ability rather than athletism.

Marriott110

i feel it's more quality of the player i.e. the better you are the less likely you'll be kicked out because of your size.  let's be honest nobody would even consider getting rid of messi etc because they're small. and Barcelona's game doesn't rely on height, i think it's more academy's in general in england want bigger players because it's more physical here, where as barcelona know that size does not matter for the way they play the game.

McLovin

i feel it's more quality of the player i.e. the better you are the less likely you'll be kicked out because of your size.  let's be honest nobody would even consider getting rid of messi etc because they're small. and Barcelona's game doesn't rely on height, i think it's more academy's in general in england want bigger players because it's more physical here, where as barcelona know that size does not matter for the way they play the game.

Actually I believe there was a fair bit of consideration given to Messi being released because of his size, but an international youth tournament convinced Barca to keep him on.

Closer to home I've read a number of footballers bios and size has seemed to feature in a few players struggling to make it initially: Roy Keane, Peter Beardsley and George Best.  You wonder how many might have jacked it in or lost confidence at that point.

Crusty54

Keith Peacock in two words.

Big enough if you're good enough.

Small players are normally midfielders or wingers.

mrbligh

 

One of my mates used to play for our academy. Danny Phillips. He got player of the tournament at a youth tournament with Barcelona, a dutch team and someone else and was then released at the end of the season for being too small in height

i went to school with danny and he was quality! best left foot i've seen in a long time....a joke if that was the reason

Dizzle

 

One of my mates used to play for our academy. Danny Phillips. He got player of the tournament at a youth tournament with Barcelona, a dutch team and someone else and was then released at the end of the season for being too small in height

i went to school with danny and he was quality! best left foot i've seen in a long time....a joke if that was the reason

Secondary school?

Off_it

AFKA would've been England captain if it wasn't for his size, FACT. (That and the fact that, so I am led to believe, he was CACK)

Plaaayer

I went to my nephews football final over at Meridian a couple of Sundays ago he plays for the U11s but they had all age ranges. The U16s were playing on the pitch next to them and I don't think I could see a kid that wasn't at least 5' 10'' wasn't and built like a brick shit house! Some of them had full grown beards, God knows what they must feed these kids.  

I had to recheck the programme to see the age group!

 

AndyCAFC

I was playing for my school in a kent cup final, won 3-1. Crystal palace scouts were there, was interested in a few players on my team, but scouted the WHOLE losing team cos of their size.

Friend Or Defoe

I went to my nephews football final over at Meridian a couple of Sundays ago he plays for the U11s but they had all age ranges. The U16s were playing on the pitch next to them and I don't think I could see a kid that wasn't at least 5' 10'' wasn't and built like a brick shit house! Some of them had full grown beards, God knows what they must feed these kids.  

I had to recheck the programme to see the age group!

 

And that was the women's team!

Deadred

Nothing changes chaps I had trials for Woolwich and District when I was 10 years old in the 60's and not wishing to sound like Bexley Dan I scored a goal, was better than most but never got selected because the big lumps got the nod over the smaller pocket dynamos even in those days.

Henry Irving

Danny Phillips had three years as a pro if I remember rightly and was let go when he was 19.

He also played about 20 times for the reserves when we were a prem club.

Don't know why he was released but as I remember he was around for a while.

Where is he playing now?

mrbligh

 

One of my mates used to play for our academy. Danny Phillips. He got player of the tournament at a youth tournament with Barcelona, a dutch team and someone else and was then released at the end of the season for being too small in height

i went to school with danny and he was quality! best left foot i've seen in a long time....a joke if that was the reason

Secondary school?

bbcs

Addick Addict

The reason I started the thread is that I have seen two specific instances where a decent prospect has not made it.

The first was in a top Premier League Club's academy as a forward but, by the time he was 14, he had had enough of being kicked off the park and gave serious football up. Some four years later he grew to 6' 2" and in his mid 20's played for England at cricket. 

The second is a kid who again is small and doesn't possess pace to burn. He can, however, at the age of eight, kill a ball dead and delivers a pass that most boys of his age wouldn't even see. As a result he wins a lot of trophies at boh the junior Club he plays for and also when he goes on courses with his local pro Club. His Dad says, however, that he won't get near the academy in question in front of the more physically developed and quicker individuals. As in the above example the lad plays other sports to a decent level (cricket and tennis in his case) andenjoys them all so it is not the be all and end all not to be selected by a pro football club but that doesn't necessarily mean that he or the club in question aren't going to miss out on a decent "little" footballer for his age who does offer something "different".  

SaySomething

I quite like the idea of there being two different leagues, one for those 180cm and over, one for those 179.9cm and below. It would be like the different weight divsions in boxing and people could choose whether to follow their side's bigger (ie more physical and aerial) team, or the smaller (ie more dribbling and trickery) team? Some people who don't like away games, could indeed follow both the club's sides at home (as one team would play at home while the other played away). It's a genius idea, which is exactly why the idiots that run FIFA, the FA, etc would never do it.

lol!
A genius idea?! you must be on a wind-up (and I've been reeled in!)!!! Weight divisions in football? well I know which one I'd follow and it certainly wouldn't be the rugby hoofball league!!!

Addick Addict

I quite like the idea of there being two different leagues, one for those 180cm and over, one for those 179.9cm and below. It would be like the different weight divsions in boxing and people could choose whether to follow their side's bigger (ie more physical and aerial) team, or the smaller (ie more dribbling and trickery) team? Some people who don't like away games, could indeed follow both the club's sides at home (as one team would play at home while the other played away). It's a genius idea, which is exactly why the idiots that run FIFA, the FA, etc would never do it.

lol!
A genius idea?! you must be on a wind-up (and I've been reeled in!)!!! Weight divisions in football? well I know which one I'd follow and it certainly wouldn't be the rugby hoofball league!!!

You'd have to feel sorry for Andy Reid as we know which League he'd end up playing in!

Oggy Red

I thought the rugby hoofball league was the Third Division.......?

northstandsteve

I spoke to somebody last week about this who does a lot of work with concept 4 coaching. He said that pro clubs attitudes are changing very quickly towards academy players.It is no longer about being big and strong, more now on footballing ability.The reason for the sudden change, in a word he said  the size of Barcelona's midfield.

Cordoban Addick

Wasn't it Alec Stock who said " All the best footballers are the ones with their arses close to the ground". He must have said it 40 years ago and I believe it is still true today.

So what we need is a 6'2'' striker with really short legs.

Cordoban Addick

I spoke to somebody last week about this who does a lot of work with concept 4 coaching. He said that pro clubs attitudes are changing very quickly towards academy players.It is no longer about being big and strong, more now on footballing ability.The reason for the sudden change, in a word he said  the size of Barcelona's midfield.

Is it any wonder that we (England) have barely had a creative player in the last 20+ years!

BlackForestReds

Wasn't it Alec Stock who said " All the best footballers are the ones with their arses close to the ground".

 

Is that why Gary Nelson kept falling over then?

Cordoban Addick

Wasn't it Alec Stock who said " All the best footballers are the ones with their arses close to the ground".

 

Is that why Gary Nelson kept falling over then?

I was going to add, "and mine gets closer to the ground every year" but we are a family forum. So I didn't.

seth plum

I'm sure we had a team of little 'uns in the early seventies, may need some help here, but we had Keith peacock, Richie Bowman, Peter Hunt...errrm Peter Reeves...the left back with the shock of curly black hair whose name I can't remember sitting here...I just remember that we were mainly shortarses with the odd exception such as Colin Powell being one of the taller ones!