Russian Convoy t-shirts

DRF

I know some on here are interested in WWII and this has a football link.
The guys at Philosophy Football have designed a t-shirt remembering the anniversary of the Arctic Convoys.
The role the Merchant Navy played in WWII is often over looked and this t-shirt uniquely values the MN vessels as highly as the RN ones involved.
www.philosophyfootball.com/

Lincsaddick

Interesting, my old dad spent quite a while on Russian convoys, he was in the RN. I have a few photos of Murmansk and British warships just covered in thick snow and ice. That was a hard time

DRF

Indeed. Alongside the British MN, the huge loss of life the Russians suffered and their massive impact on the outcome is also often overlooked.

C.Walsh'sLoveChild

On Remembrance Day 2008 I was standing outside my local at the time (Station, Hither Green) and a couple old boys cam in for a beer. One was wearing the white beret. So when they came out we all started talking. The one quick beer ended up being 5 or 6 and the stories were amazing. I think he said something along the lines that he is one of only 7 people alive with that Russian Convoy medal. Think they were on to Grove Park to a relatives but stopped in Hither Green for a quick one. Great evening

Lincsaddick

On Remembrance Day 2008 I was standing outside my local at the time (Station, Hither Green) and a couple old boys cam in for a beer. One was wearing the white beret. So when they came out we all started talking. The one quick beer ended up being 5 or 6 and the stories were amazing. I think he said something along the lines that he is one of only 7 people alive with that Russian Convoy medal. Think they were on to Grove Park to a relatives but stopped in Hither Green for a quick one. Great evening

I have a medal of given to my Dad by the Russians in the 1990s. I must dig it out and see exactly what is what. The medal was only granted after 'glasnost'.

The Soviet Union refused to recognise the role played by the UK/USA during the war for propoganda reasons. The Russian population was duped into believing that the USSR was so mighty and Stalin so all powerful that the Russians beat 'The Great Satan' Germany single handed.

BlackForestReds

My grandfather went on one of the convoys to Murmansk. From memory it was PQ13 (the convoys from Murmansk were prefixed QP). He told me stories of how the sailors would be exhausted but afarid to go to sleep - to do would mean going intoa cabin and if the ship was torpedoed then it was a virtual death sentence. Also, how if they saw a ship get topedoed they couldn't stop to pick up survivors - to do so made them a sitting duck. Finally they got to Murmansk and thought that they would be treated like the heros they undoubtedly were - the Russians refused to allow them off the base.

BlackForestReds

The Soviet Union refused to recognise the role played by the UK/USA during the war for propoganda reasons. The Russian population was duped into believing that the USSR was so mighty and Stalin so all powerful that the Russians beat 'The Great Satan' Germany single handed.
..........

To be fair Churchill promised that they would open a second front in France in 1942, that became 1943 and then finally D-Day took place in 1944. During that time the Russians were left to face Barbarossa and lost millions of civilians and soldiers. The Russians saw the North African and Italian campaigns as sideshows that did little to defeat Nazi Germany. The aid that got through was welcome, but it was little more a gesture by the Western allies.

Goonerhater

Yes of course lets not forget that at the out break of the war Russia wasnt  an enemy of Nazi Germany  and lets forget that they invaded Poland at the sametime Germany and lets forget the 24,000 Polish officers Russia murdered i mean after all its the Red flag thing and the "red army" could and can to some do no wrong  to some on here.

Henry Irving

Yes of course lets not forget that at the out break of the war Russia wasnt  an enemy of Nazi Germany  and lets forget that they invaded Poland at the sametime Germany and lets forget the 24,000 Polish officers Russia murdered i mean after all its the Red flag thing and the "red army" could and can to some do no wrong  to some on here.

 No one said the Red Army could do no wrong or denied that Stalin was a vile murdering dictator but you had to have a dig anyway.

Talk about Pavlov's dog

DRF

I think thats a bit harsh Gooner. Everyone knows which side the Red Army was on at the out break of war and everyone should know that without them joining the allies then there would have been no victory at all. If you want to point fingers then the UK were freindly towards the Nazis until the invasion of Poland - is that any different?

Just one statistic I would like to give:

Soviet losses WWII aprox 23m (14% of the populaiton)

UK losses aprox 1m (1% of the populaiton)

USA losses 0.5 million (0.3% of the population).

Many paid the ultimate price for joing 'our' side and therefore they deserve to be remebered.

 

Lincsaddick

The Soviet Union refused to recognise the role played by the UK/USA during the war for propoganda reasons. The Russian population was duped into believing that the USSR was so mighty and Stalin so all powerful that the Russians beat 'The Great Satan' Germany single handed. .......... To be fair Churchill promised that they would open a second front in France in 1942, that became 1943 and then finally D-Day took place in 1944. During that time the Russians were left to face Barbarossa and lost millions of civilians and soldiers. The Russians saw the North African and Italian campaigns as sideshows that did little to defeat Nazi Germany. The aid that got through was welcome, but it was little more a gesture by the Western allies.

The Soviets perceiving 'sideshows'  is more communist propaganda. Hundreds of thousands of German, Italian, Hungarian and Romanian soldiers were involved in the Mediterranean campaigns, soldiers who otherwise would have been freed up to join the Eastern front.

Stalingrad, Leningrad and Kurtz were all VERY close run affairs and the Axis resources that were tied up in the 'second fronts' across south Europe and N Africa could well have swung the Eastern war in Germany's favour had they been available for use against the Russians

Lincsaddick

I think thats a bit harsh Gooner. Everyone knows which side the Red Army was on at the out break of war and everyone should know that without them joining the allies then there would have been no victory at all. If you want to point fingers then the UK were freindly towards the Nazis until the invasion of Poland - is that any different?

Just one statistic I would like to give:

Soviet losses WWII aprox 23m (14% of the populaiton)

UK losses aprox 1m (1% of the populaiton)

USA losses 0.5 million (0.3% of the population).

Many paid the ultimate price for joing 'our' side and therefore they deserve to be remebered.

 

I know there are lies. damned lies and statistics etc etc, BUT,  WW2 UK losses were much less than 1 million. The total WW2 losses for UK AND Empire troops was some 450,000 across all war theatres. The civilian dead numbered 60,000. The million figure more likely refers to WW1 where the Lions led by donkeys suffered ridiculous losses by marching straight into German machine gun fire.

ShootersHillGuru

Yes Stalin was an evil dictator on a par with any you can mention but without the efforts and huge sacrifice of The Red Army, Hitlers defeat would have been far from certain.

BlackForestReds

The Soviet Union refused to recognise the role played by the UK/USA during the war for propoganda reasons. The Russian population was duped into believing that the USSR was so mighty and Stalin so all powerful that the Russians beat 'The Great Satan' Germany single handed. .......... To be fair Churchill promised that they would open a second front in France in 1942, that became 1943 and then finally D-Day took place in 1944. During that time the Russians were left to face Barbarossa and lost millions of civilians and soldiers. The Russians saw the North African and Italian campaigns as sideshows that did little to defeat Nazi Germany. The aid that got through was welcome, but it was little more a gesture by the Western allies.

The Soviets perceiving 'sideshows'  is more communist propaganda. Hundreds of thousands of German, Italian, Hungarian and Romanian soldiers were involved in the Mediterranean campaigns, soldiers who otherwise would have been freed up to join the Eastern front.

Stalingrad, Leningrad and Kurtz were all VERY close run affairs and the Axis resources that were tied up in the 'second fronts' across south Europe and N Africa could well have swung the Eastern war in Germany's favour had they been available for use against the Russians

Most of the elite German forces were in Russia not Italy and North Africa, the SS Leibstandarte for example fought with great distinction in Barbarossa and were about the only German army unit to come out of Operation Zitadelle with any credit. They didn't leave the russian front until summer of 1943 by which time Stalingrad had been over for six months. I'm not sure either than you could call Stalingrad or leningrad close run things. Stalingrad ended up with the destruction of the sixth Army and the capture of 100,00 men including Paulus. In addition most of Hitler's senior and capable generals - Model, Manstein, Guderian were all operational in Russia and not Italy. Whether you consider it propaganda or not it was undeniable that Russia bore the full brunt of the Nazi onslaught for three years and the coming of the second front in Europe was delayed, had it arrived earlier the war would have ended earlier, but as the raid on Dieppe demonstrated it was not an easy thing to do.

To Stalin Italy and North Africa were sideshows, but then this was someone who presided over the Katyn massacre, the purges of the 1930s and deliberately starved the Ukraine and induced there a famine in the name of ideology. Churchill erred in making the promise which was impossible to keep. An invasion of Northern France in 1942 would have happened just two years after Dunkirk, it was never going to happen.

Miserableoldgit

Anyway.....

http://www.philosophyfootball.com/new_win.html