(although...ok...I do actually quite like being away from being bombarded with whole load of nonsense about a whole load if distracting irrelevant issues.....
...but....no need to chuck the baby out with the bath water, eh!)
(although...ok...I do actually quite like being away from being bombarded with whole load of nonsense about a whole load if distracting irrelevant issues.....
...but....no need to chuck the baby out with the bath water, eh!)
It's fairly shocking that the Mail saw fit to fabricate quotes from the prosecution and describe the events that happened when Knox lost the case. Can't understand why they'd make it up when it's a public event that they could have got a real quote for. If it had happened.
Amongst all the comments spare a thought for Meredith Kerscher she has had no opportunity to appeal against the injustice perpertrated against her.
RIP Meredith
Agree totally but do bear in mind someone has been convicted and imprisoned for her murder already, this appeal does not change that
I agree, but Meredith should not be forgotten, my comment has nothing to do with the rights or wrongs of the legal side of the case, but sympathy for the Kerschers who have lost a daughter, roughly the same age as my own, in horrendous circumstances and whose loss has been put to one side amongst the media scrum to follow Amanda Knox.
All the media is a joke. The Mail have complained throughout the entire process about the PR spin machine driving Knox's conviction, and then lead with a headline of 'weeping is Foxy freed to make fortune'. No spin on that one then. The double standards would be hilarious if they weren't a bit sad
Can't remember who said it about the Italian justice system but... The Italian judiciary is excellent, they constantly take on and attack cases that are not politically or institutionally favourable, and indeed take these cases on at great personal risk. There are countless investigations led by Italian judges that would not see the light of any court in this country if similar crimes happened here.
Clearly the appeal process worked, unlike in many excepetionally dubious cases in the US. These emotive cases involving middles class proffessionals, always attract the tabloid press in the worst ways possible. On our side there was Lousie Woodward, whose trial was ludicrous, and a main part of the evidence for prosecution was her character and ridiculous assertions that she partook in 'Cybernet Sex'. Whilst our justice system, went even more ludicrous with the case of Barry Bulsara. Pinning a case on low copy number DNA, that was never created to be lead forensic evidence is obscene. It's just a shame that if you don't get ther right legal team, and polar opposite expert oppinion, you're fucking screwed in any country.
Can't say whether Barry Bulsara or Amanad Knox were guilty or not, but I can say there are too few papers willing to question piss poor investigations like that of Bulsara's or Colin Stagg's and accept the shit offered up to them from equally inept police officers. Incompetence and corruption is in every country.
Can't remember who said it about the Italian justice system but... The Italian judiciary is excellent, they constantly take on and attack cases that are not politically or institutionally favourable, and indeed take these cases on at great personal risk. There are countless investigations led by Italian judges that would not see the light of any court in this country if similar crimes happened here.
Clearly the appeal process worked, unlike in many excepetionally dubious cases in the US. These emotive cases involving middles class proffessionals, always attract the tabloid press in the worst ways possible. On our side there was Lousie Woodward, whose trial was ludicrous, and a main part of the evidence for prosecution was her character and ridiculous assertions that she partook in 'Cybernet Sex'. Whilst our justice system, went even more ludicrous with the case of Barry Bulsara. Pinning a case on low copy number DNA, that was never created to be lead forensic evidence is obscene. It's just a shame that if you don't get ther right legal team, and polar opposite expert oppinion, you're fucking screwed in any country.
Can't say whether Barry Bulsara or Amanad Knox were guilty or not, but I can say there are too few papers willing to question piss poor investigations like that of Bulsara's or Colin Stagg's and accept the shit offered up to them from equally inept police officers. Incompetence and corruption is in every country.
True to an extent. In many ways the Italian justice system is laughable (the ineptitude in this case displayed by the prosecution in particular is staggering) - and often seems to be little more than a courtroom drama brought to life. However, you make an excellent point about the bravery of some of the legal profession in Italy. The main airport in Sicily is named after two judges who crusaded to bring the mafia to justice - and paid for it with their lives.
Our own 'justice' system is deeply flawed too - witness the 'evidence' of Roy Meadow, which led to countless wrongful convictions and numerous suicides - later utterly discredited, but accepted for years as 'expert testimony'. The Bulsara case, the Colin Stagg one, Birmingham Six, Guildford Four - the list is long. The Americans have no better room for manouevre - the fact that their judicial system still executes people, the OJ Simpson case was a joke from start to finish because of courtroom grandstanding, the Rodney King case was a disgrace - and they're just the high-profile miscarriages of justice you hear about.
It sickened me to see the yank media circus rallying round the cause of a pretty girl 'who couldn't possibly be guilty of a heinous crime and had to have been fitted up by a dirty foreign justice system where they don't even speak goddamn English for christ's sakes' - a week after their country executed someone for a crime they palpably didn't commit.
What a great paper never read it never brought but it has the ability to make Guardianistas choke on their tofu and thats a good thing.
Must say I'm with goonerhater on this one. Damn the guardianistas and their intentions for factual journalism, equality and good! They do nothing but brew hatred and fear!
Amongst all the comments spare a thought for Meredith Kerscher she has had no opportunity to appeal against the injustice perpertrated against her.
RIP Meredith
Agree totally but do bear in mind someone has been convicted and imprisoned for her murder already, this appeal does not change that
I agree, but Meredith should not be forgotten, my comment has nothing to do with the rights or wrongs of the legal side of the case, but sympathy for the Kerschers who have lost a daughter, roughly the same age as my own, in horrendous circumstances and whose loss has been put to one side amongst the media scrum to follow Amanda Knox.
Apologies I misunderstood your point - I couldn't agree more
I'm definately in the innocent until proven guilty camp but the Italian system is laughable. The ability to have the same trial over and over again until you get the result you want is terrible. It's let the obviously guilty Knox and the even more obviously guilty Berlusconi walk free time and time again.
The existence of excellent judges within that system does not make the system any less terrible.
Agreed on that point. The depth and quantity of the appeals almost slip into double jeopardy territory. You can basically shout for a do-over. In fact, the prosecution are appealing again. This case has been characterised by inept police and prosecution work and the effect money can have on the Italian justice system - if you have it you can walk. Inbetween all this the truth has been totally lost and now we, but particularly the Kerchers will never know what really happened. Shame
How little is being said about the fact that Dear home loving girl Amanda blamed some totally innocent guy for it at first.He is actually carrying out a civil case against her. Bet he wasnt interviewed on coast to coast media in the USA or been on Opra etc etc.
Chunes when you come down off your moral mountain do tell how its only the left wing rags that have " factual journalism" ? where were all you Red Wedge when The Tory graf blew the whistle on MPs expences ? as said if the Mail is shit dont read it and therefore dont bleat on about it being kak.
How little is being said about the fact that Dear home loving girl Amanda blamed some totally innocent guy for it at first.He is actually carrying out a civil case against her. Bet he wasnt interviewed on coast to coast media in the USA or been on Opra etc etc.
Chunes when you come down off your moral mountain do tell how its only the left wing rags that have " factual journalism" ? where were all you Red Wedge when The Tory graf blew the whistle on MPs expences ? as said if the Mail is shit dont read it and therefore dont bleat on about it being kak.
They teach it at GCSE English. The difference between factual journalism and hyperbolic tabloid twists on factual journalism. Where was I when the Telegraph uncovered MPs expenses? Don't know, probably at work.
The Telegraph, clearly a different class of paper to the Fail actually bought the story after the Mail, amongst others refused to pay the £300k that the gentleman who had "acquired" the data was demanding, FYI. And good on them for doing so.
GH - do you think continually calling anyone with leanings slightly to the left of the Fail 'the red wedge' is amusing? Or are you just reinforcing a stereotype by doing it? Just asking, like.
Can't get my head around quoting, sorry, but earlier on someone mentioned about miscarriages of justice. There was an interesting piece on this and the Criminal Cases Review Board in the supplement to The Mail on Sunday:
Leroy anyone who isnt for burning all and everyone that voted Labour and isnt to the far right of Ghegis Khan is Red Wedge and a Commie lefty, GuradianistaTwonk----hope that clears any confusion.
As for sterio typing saw a bit of that on here this morning and very clever it was also far be it for anyone ofthe "left" to steriotype , they are of course the ONLY people with open minds(its where you pore the petrol)
I am sure that the Italian legal system has many brave prosecuting examing magistrates and judges. However, most of this bravery has come to the fore in the battle that Berlesconi's government is waging against the mafia. The same bravery and efficiency seems lacking when it comes to the manifold charges levelled at the Prime Minister himself. Like most legal systems the results in high profile and political cases are biased in favour of the particular government unless there is just no way out, for example Watergate, Keeler/Profumo and I am sure that you can think of a few more. I would not be at all surprised if the US Department of State had had a little word in the Italian Justice Minister's ear in favour of Amanda K, such a pretty girl, so wholesome, so ALL American and remember we import an awful lot of olive oil and tomatoes from your lovely country. Bear in mind though that this is being written by someone who believes that Neal Armstrong's 'one giant step' speech was transmitted from a studio in Phoenix Arizona and not from the moon,dark side or otherwise.
As for modern forensic criminal science where DNA, fingerprints and nuclear microscopic atomic dust can be plucked from the air that was in a particular room five days ago by skilled technicians who all look and dress like stars of the various CSI series, I'm not having it. Only governments have the cash and the means to present such evidence before the courts, be that evidence legitimate or faked. How do I know that my DNA has not been tampered with whilst it has been stored in some government database. Security in such systems has historically been woefully lacking or non existent. And if the government is out to get me, it sure will get me. How many defendants would have the resources to adequately challenge such evidence especially when it's been sworn to by that nice looking gentleman in spectacles, the bow tie and the white laboratory coat ?
It sickened me to see the yank media circus rallying round the cause of a pretty girl 'who couldn't possibly be guilty of a heinous crime and had to have been fitted up by a dirty foreign justice system where they don't even speak goddamn English for christ's sakes' - a week after their country executed someone for a crime they palpably didn't commit.
However the evidence against Knox was pathetically weak. Hard to avoid the conclusion that the Italian system failed, to the massive detriment of Amanda Knox and the Kerscher family.
As for executing 'someone for a crime they palpably didn't commit', if you mean Troy Davis then look into the case and I think you'll conclude that he almost certainly did - beyond reasonable doubt. If you're interested, see: http://multimedia.savannahnow.com/media/pdfs/DavisRuling082410.pdf which is the Court judgement on his appeal and a pretty forensic dismantling of it. I don't agree with the death penalty but even those on the side of the angels can be guilty of spin and disinformation, and in this case the anti death penalty lobby was bang to rights.
Yeah the US coverage was sick. Pretty young American girl, how could she do such a thing?? Thousand in Seattle say she's innocent, how the hell do they know? The appeal verdict showed that the cased was mishandled by Italian police and as a result Knox & Italian ex (who wasn't American, pretty or female and therefore his name escapes me and most of worlds media) could not be found guilty beyond reasonable doubt. Does it prove they are innocent though??
It sickened me to see the yank media circus rallying round the cause of a pretty girl 'who couldn't possibly be guilty of a heinous crime and had to have been fitted up by a dirty foreign justice system where they don't even speak goddamn English for christ's sakes' - a week after their country executed someone for a crime they palpably didn't commit.
However the evidence against Knox was pathetically weak. Hard to avoid the conclusion that the Italian system failed, to the massive detriment of Amanda Knox and the Kerscher family.
As for executing 'someone for a crime they palpably didn't commit', if you mean Troy Davis then look into the case and I think you'll conclude that he almost certainly did - beyond reasonable doubt. If you're interested, see: http://multimedia.savannahnow.com/media/pdfs/DavisRuling082410.pdf which is the Court judgement on his appeal and a pretty forensic dismantling of it. I don't agree with the death penalty but even those on the side of the angels can be guilty of spin and disinformation, and in this case the anti death penalty lobby was bang to rights.
The actual hard evidence against her was weak to non-existent - but she made things difficult for herself. Not only did she finger an innocent man (Lumumba) but cavorted and played around in the police station, doing cartwheels and the splits and was overheard promising her bf "wild sex" while the police were investigating the crime scene and was also photographed kissing him outside the house while the police were inside. Strange behaviour for someone who's housemate and friend had just been brutally murdered. Then she made a tearful confession to being involved in the murder before retracting it and there were various other discrepancies in her testimony. So I can see why the police considered her a suspect and why the court found her guilty. It was obvious that there was more than one person involved in the attack on Meredith Kercher so who better to suspect than her apparently unconcerned flatmate who kept changing her evidence and was happy to shift the blame on to someone she knew was not guilty?
It sickened me to see the yank media circus rallying round the cause of a pretty girl 'who couldn't possibly be guilty of a heinous crime and had to have been fitted up by a dirty foreign justice system where they don't even speak goddamn English for christ's sakes' - a week after their country executed someone for a crime they palpably didn't commit.
However the evidence against Knox was pathetically weak. Hard to avoid the conclusion that the Italian system failed, to the massive detriment of Amanda Knox and the Kerscher family.
As for executing 'someone for a crime they palpably didn't commit', if you mean Troy Davis then look into the case and I think you'll conclude that he almost certainly did - beyond reasonable doubt. If you're interested, see: http://multimedia.savannahnow.com/media/pdfs/DavisRuling082410.pdf which is the Court judgement on his appeal and a pretty forensic dismantling of it. I don't agree with the death penalty but even those on the side of the angels can be guilty of spin and disinformation, and in this case the anti death penalty lobby was bang to rights.
The actual hard evidence against her was weak to non-existent - but she made things difficult for herself. Not only did she finger an innocent man (Lumumba) but cavorted and played around in the police station, doing cartwheels and the splits and was overheard promising her bf "wild sex" while the police were investigating the crime scene and was also photographed kissing him outside the house while the police were inside. Strange behaviour for someone who's housemate and friend had just been brutally murdered. Then she made a tearful confession to being involved in the murder before retracting it and there were various other discrepancies in her testimony. So I can see why the police considered her a suspect and why the court found her guilty. It was obvious that there was more than one person involved in the attack on Meredith Kercher so who better to suspect than her apparently unconcerned flatmate who kept changing her evidence and was happy to shift the blame on to someone she knew was not guilty?
The truth, whatever it is, will out.
Given the intense media attention, her guard will slip at some point........
Comments
£4 million = Compensation to Rebeccah Brooks from NI for having to resign.
It's fairly shocking that the Mail saw fit to fabricate quotes from the prosecution and describe the events that happened when Knox lost the case. Can't understand why they'd make it up when it's a public event that they could have got a real quote for. If it had happened.
Clearly the appeal process worked, unlike in many excepetionally dubious cases in the US. These emotive cases involving middles class proffessionals, always attract the tabloid press in the worst ways possible. On our side there was Lousie Woodward, whose trial was ludicrous, and a main part of the evidence for prosecution was her character and ridiculous assertions that she partook in 'Cybernet Sex'. Whilst our justice system, went even more ludicrous with the case of Barry Bulsara. Pinning a case on low copy number DNA, that was never created to be lead forensic evidence is obscene. It's just a shame that if you don't get ther right legal team, and polar opposite expert oppinion, you're fucking screwed in any country.
Can't say whether Barry Bulsara or Amanad Knox were guilty or not, but I can say there are too few papers willing to question piss poor investigations like that of Bulsara's or Colin Stagg's and accept the shit offered up to them from equally inept police officers. Incompetence and corruption is in every country.
Our own 'justice' system is deeply flawed too - witness the 'evidence' of Roy Meadow, which led to countless wrongful convictions and numerous suicides - later utterly discredited, but accepted for years as 'expert testimony'. The Bulsara case, the Colin Stagg one, Birmingham Six, Guildford Four - the list is long. The Americans have no better room for manouevre - the fact that their judicial system still executes people, the OJ Simpson case was a joke from start to finish because of courtroom grandstanding, the Rodney King case was a disgrace - and they're just the high-profile miscarriages of justice you hear about.
It sickened me to see the yank media circus rallying round the cause of a pretty girl 'who couldn't possibly be guilty of a heinous crime and had to have been fitted up by a dirty foreign justice system where they don't even speak goddamn English for christ's sakes' - a week after their country executed someone for a crime they palpably didn't commit.
I'm definately in the innocent until proven guilty camp but the Italian system is laughable. The ability to have the same trial over and over again until you get the result you want is terrible. It's let the obviously guilty Knox and the even more obviously guilty Berlusconi walk free time and time again.
The existence of excellent judges within that system does not make the system any less terrible.
..
Can't get my head around quoting, sorry, but earlier on someone mentioned about miscarriages of justice. There was an interesting piece on this and the Criminal Cases Review Board in the supplement to The Mail on Sunday:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-2042831/Not-jailed-murder-actually-committed-crime--meet-commission-helps-clear-them.html
I am sure that the Italian legal system has many brave prosecuting examing magistrates and judges. However, most of this bravery has come to the fore in the battle that Berlesconi's government is waging against the mafia. The same bravery and efficiency seems lacking when it comes to the manifold charges levelled at the Prime Minister himself. Like most legal systems the results in high profile and political cases are biased in favour of the particular government unless there is just no way out, for example Watergate, Keeler/Profumo and I am sure that you can think of a few more. I would not be at all surprised if the US Department of State had had a little word in the Italian Justice Minister's ear in favour of Amanda K, such a pretty girl, so wholesome, so ALL American and remember we import an awful lot of olive oil and tomatoes from your lovely country. Bear in mind though that this is being written by someone who believes that Neal Armstrong's 'one giant step' speech was transmitted from a studio in Phoenix Arizona and not from the moon,dark side or otherwise.
As for modern forensic criminal science where DNA, fingerprints and nuclear microscopic atomic dust can be plucked from the air that was in a particular room five days ago by skilled technicians who all look and dress like stars of the various CSI series, I'm not having it. Only governments have the cash and the means to present such evidence before the courts, be that evidence legitimate or faked. How do I know that my DNA has not been tampered with whilst it has been stored in some government database. Security in such systems has historically been woefully lacking or non existent. And if the government is out to get me, it sure will get me. How many defendants would have the resources to adequately challenge such evidence especially when it's been sworn to by that nice looking gentleman in spectacles, the bow tie and the white laboratory coat ?
Mer
Yeah the US coverage was sick. Pretty young American girl, how could she do such a thing?? Thousand in Seattle say she's innocent, how the hell do they know? The appeal verdict showed that the cased was mishandled by Italian police and as a result Knox & Italian ex (who wasn't American, pretty or female and therefore his name escapes me and most of worlds media) could not be found guilty beyond reasonable doubt. Does it prove they are innocent though??
Very sad.
RIP Meredith
The actual hard evidence against her was weak to non-existent - but she made things difficult for herself. Not only did she finger an innocent man (Lumumba) but cavorted and played around in the police station, doing cartwheels and the splits and was overheard promising her bf "wild sex" while the police were investigating the crime scene and was also photographed kissing him outside the house while the police were inside. Strange behaviour for someone who's housemate and friend had just been brutally murdered. Then she made a tearful confession to being involved in the murder before retracting it and there were various other discrepancies in her testimony. So I can see why the police considered her a suspect and why the court found her guilty. It was obvious that there was more than one person involved in the attack on Meredith Kercher so who better to suspect than her apparently unconcerned flatmate who kept changing her evidence and was happy to shift the blame on to someone she knew was not guilty?
The truth, whatever it is, will out.
Given the intense media attention, her guard will slip at some point........