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NHS Reforms

church-lanechurch-lane
edited September 12 in Not Sports Related
Anyone know what the NHS reforms currently being tabled actually mean? The government must have reason for proposing and other parties must have reason for opposing.
As far as I can see no-one has explained to a lay person like me what the reforms mean, so I can't understand why there is such vehement opposition. Someone must know what this means at a patient level, but the government, unions and GPs etc can't or won't explain.
Can anyone enlighten me?

Ta

Comments

  • BedsaddickBedsaddick
    It means that we have to see that untrustworthy slimy worm Andrew Lansbury on our news ( a local MP to me) and that's bad enough in itself. The man is and always has been a total liability and with him heading the reforms you know that the future if the NHS is not good at all.
  • PrincessFionaPrincessFiona
    Not sure if this is allowed? 

    Interesting to see Starmer's comment resonate with comments made by some on CL a few months ago, about reform needed to save it not just extra money - and in fact all the extra money (where did that come from??) doesn't solve the issues:

    'Keir Starmer warned that the 'broken' NHS must 'reform or die' today after a damning report found billions of pounds in extra investment has failed to boost performance.

    The PM delivered a stark message about the perilous future for the health service, stressing the need for drastic action to slash waiting times and improve access.

    But he will make clear there is no prospect of pouring more money in without root and branch changes.

    Instead he argued resources must be shifted from inefficient hospitals to community care and preventing illness developing.

    'We have to fix the plumbing before turning on the taps. No more money without reform,' Sir Keir said'

  • jacob_CAFCjacob_CAFC
    it means austerity 
  • PrincessFionaPrincessFiona
    jacob_CAFC said:
    it means austerity 
    Reform means austerity? i agree with him, it needs 'reform or die' and not just more money after bad
  • PrincessFionaPrincessFiona
    https://www.theregister.com/2016/09/20/margaret_hodge_details_mind_boggling_public_sector_waste/ worth a read as I doubt much has changed if not got worse
  • shine166shine166
    jacob_CAFC said:
    it means austerity 
    it really doesnt though does it, it means things drastically need to change and keep throwing money at the problem really isnt working.
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  • PrincessFionaPrincessFiona
    Henry Irving said:
    They are going to build 40 new hospitals and they have a care plan ready to publish any day now...no hang on a minute that was the last lot.

    The first step to solving any problem is to admit you have one.

    So far, so good.

    Labour now need to find solutions to the multiple NHS problems it has inherited such as years long waiting lists, shortages of qualified staff, an ageing population, buildings in need of replacement and repair, lack of integration with community care provision, ever growing demand for new treatments and drugs, lack of fiscal controls, the wasteful internal market, incorrect effeciency targets being used rather than medical outcomes etc, etc etc.

    So, no we don't know what their reforms will be because they can't find solutions all those issues in a couple of months.

    And as they are incredibly complex problems there are no easy, quick or cheap solutions.

    But that's what proper governments have to do; find solutions, not rely on three word slogans or go for  cheap headlines (national service anyone?)

    Will Labour deliver? I remain to be convinced.

     They have no magic wand but at least they have grasped the nettle.

    But privatisation, which works so well with our dentistry, trains, water and power, shouldn't even be on the table.
    Agreed they are incredibly complex problems there are no easy, quick or cheap solutions.

    Of course they can't find solutions in only a few months. But refreshing to see that they have admitted it needs 'reform or die' and it is not just a case of throwing more money at it.

    Also, the reaction to Labour saying the above is completely different to the 'other lot' - so Labour should have more opportunity/support to so something, than anyone else saying the same thing
  • shine166shine166
    Showmetheway2gohome said:
    His going to ban pensioners from using the NHS. 
    Then give priority appointments and treatment to people who have never paid tax to this country. 
    it’s not our NHS it’s the world’s NHS
    thanks Herr Starmer 
    What's your solution ? Because after 14 years of being run into the ground something has to happen. I'd love to know what party people with these views voted for over the last decade. 

    Same people that don't want any pensioners being means tested, also dont want reform but want everything that effects them to be better. 

  • TeamOfKermorgantsTeamOfKermorgants
    SporadicAddick said:
    On Radio 4 this morning, very good interviews re NHS. The main interviewee (Oxford uni, can't recall name) view was:-

    The NHS is adequately funded
    Providing more money would be like sending more numbers into the battle of the Somme
    Incredibly inefficient
    The BMA a major blocker to progression.

    Wes Streeting was on after and when the point about BMA was put to him, he didn't deny it... 
    Interested to know what the rationale this mysterious caller had to say that the BMA is a major blocker to progression, I assume you're inclined to believe the same think from the way your post is reading to me. Always find it interesting to hear other people’s opinions. 

    The BMA is obviously a trade union and as such the primary objective of it is to protect its members interests. I must caveat this with saying that I am doctor and a BMA member. Interesting the GMC, which is the regulatory body, historically was made at the request of doctors when people were forging medical degrees to get jobs. The GMC has been called institutionally racist by employment tribunals and is not popular amongst doctors. 

    The NHS is the largest employer in Europe, but we have amongst the lowest rate of doctors per capita. Overall employee count for the NHS is markedly higher than comparable country’s healthcare systems. There is obviously a large disparity knowing this. I’d be asking what these other employees do and what they add rather than asking what, relatively underrepresented in workforce numbers, doctors do to hold back reform? This is compounded by doctor training programme numbers being cut, higher competition ratios across the board and resultant significant unemployment for middle grade doctors - doesn’t sound like this would be the prime group of employees to hold back a service to me. 
  • PrincessFionaPrincessFiona
    shine166 said:
    Showmetheway2gohome said:
    His going to ban pensioners from using the NHS. 
    Then give priority appointments and treatment to people who have never paid tax to this country. 
    it’s not our NHS it’s the world’s NHS
    thanks Herr Starmer 
    What's your solution ? Because after 14 years of being run into the ground something has to happen. I'd love to know what party people with these views voted for over the last decade. 

    Same people that don't want any pensioners being means tested, also dont want reform but want everything that effects them to be better. 

    If more money isn't the solution and if the funding IS sufficient, how has it been run into the ground?
  • LincsaddickLincsaddick
    10 year plan ? .. a LOT changes in 10 years
  • usetobunkinusetobunkin
    The NHS, is not designed to do what it is doing. 
    It was to help you to arrive, do your tonsils and possibly your appendix, gall bladder. Repair broken bones. 
    People with serious illnesses where told “we will do what we can, but now go home and put your affairs in order “
    Today the NHS, can replace your heart, change a fat person to a thin person, man into a woman, and vise versa. 
    Give women the opportunity to be Mothers, when nature had decided otherwise. 
    All this is marvellous, but if that’s what we want me must reform it root and branch.
    Personally I would pay a levy to fund the health system. 
  • follettfollett
    The NHS is a bit of a catch 22. The pay is really poor compared to the private sector for roles like IT, finance, data analysis, etc and resultantly, a lot of highly skilled people just go to the private sector. When they then need a more challenging task done, they lack the skillsets and end up getting contractors in which cost an absolute fortune. If they paid people more in the first place and attracted higher quality staff, they could eradicate these contractors who end up costing them more.

    The NHS does need reform but that doesn't change the fact it has been horrendously underfunded, as have most of the public sector, for the best part of 15 years.
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  • SoundAsa£SoundAsa£
    fadgadget said:
    They might want to start with the little things , like why does everyone in my household get three letters for every appointment , surely thats got to amount to something ? , just imagine 50.000 Patients getting the same .    
    50,000 patients getting appointments for members of your family,
    Christ alive……..I wouldn’t stand for that.
    Get on the phone right away mate.
  • PrincessFionaPrincessFiona
    follett said:
    The NHS is a bit of a catch 22. The pay is really poor compared to the private sector for roles like IT, finance, data analysis, etc and resultantly, a lot of highly skilled people just go to the private sector. When they then need a more challenging task done, they lack the skillsets and end up getting contractors in which cost an absolute fortune. If they paid people more in the first place and attracted higher quality staff, they could eradicate these contractors who end up costing them more.

    The NHS does need reform but that doesn't change the fact it has been horrendously underfunded, as have most of the public sector, for the best part of 15 years.
    If the NHS was underfunded now, Labour would need to spend more more on it. They are saying not
  • follettfollett
    PrincessFiona said:
    follett said:
    The NHS is a bit of a catch 22. The pay is really poor compared to the private sector for roles like IT, finance, data analysis, etc and resultantly, a lot of highly skilled people just go to the private sector. When they then need a more challenging task done, they lack the skillsets and end up getting contractors in which cost an absolute fortune. If they paid people more in the first place and attracted higher quality staff, they could eradicate these contractors who end up costing them more.

    The NHS does need reform but that doesn't change the fact it has been horrendously underfunded, as have most of the public sector, for the best part of 15 years.
    If the NHS was underfunded now, Labour would need to spend more more on it. They are saying not
    There's no money to spend
  • PrincessFionaPrincessFiona
    fadgadget said:
    They might want to start with the little things , like why does everyone in my household get three letters for every appointment , surely thats got to amount to something ? , just imagine 50.000 Patients getting the same .    
    I once received a letter cancelling an appointment after the date of the appointment - I recall it was postmarked the same day as the actual appointment.

    It is also rare that either of us has received a letter about an appointment without then receiving a change of date letter a week later. I've also had the same letter twice a few times
  • BeerandFootballBeerandFootball
    I no longer receive letters from St Thomas’s Hospital just a text with appointment date and points me to my NHS portal which has full details.
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