Part of me thinks not, mainly because he'll probably be crocked anyway and second I'm not sure the two of them get on. However, the outrage from the knuckle draggers (press and fans) would probably not be worth the hassle so he might just for the easy life.
I would imagine if he was fit he'll be one of the first on the plane for two reasons a) he is a leader, b) it would be way too controversial for Roy not to take him, especially with the hounds ready to savage him at the first opportunity. He isn't too bad at football either !
There is always a chance that Roy knows this tournament is a poison chalice because of injuries & suspensions (Gerrard, Parker, Bent, Wiltshere & Rooney to name a few) and just clear out the dead wood and start afresh. He knows he will be judged on the World Cup and too many will be past it by then.
I think Hodgson should take a leaf out of a certain Chris Powell's book in that he needs to effectively start again. We are NOT going to win the thing with the current resources available so why not use this as a stepping stone to the future and as a way of drawing a line under the successive failures of the established squad.
I'm not advocating turning it into an under 21 squad nor totally ignoring those players still performing to an international standard level but exactly what would be the point taking Lampard, Ferdinand, Barry or Terry when they are not going to be around in 2 years time? Isn't is the case that the optimum average age for a World Cup winning team is 26/27 and these players are well beyond that.
Isn't is the case that the optimum average age for a World Cup winning team is 26/27 and these players are well beyond that.
I agree with that as an average, but I think you need a few really experienced players in the squad, and probably in the team. For that reason I would still take any player that is 30 or under - 32 in Brazil is not too old, and some players get better with age so would be better at 32 than they were at 25.
However, I would not expect any of the four you mention to make Brazil, so I would be tempted to leave them at home - especially if they are going to retire after the tournament. The only caveat to that is if any of those players are going to be needed for the qualifying games before the young players are ready and/or if they are going to be unavailable through injury or suspension. It would be nice to be able to call upon some of the older heads if/when we have big games that we need to win. Any player that is left out of the summer squad is likely to retire from international football.
I think it's much easier to build a squad with little experience in League One than it is at International level. Sending out a team with an average of less than ten caps is, in my view, a massive risk.
If we fail to qualify for Brazil it will be a total disaster!
MattD, I think they just laugh when they look at our team, I love my country , but refuse to pay to watch the England team at the moment as there's no quality or pride.
I'd take Carroll - in form, fresher than a lot of players having been in and out of the team, offers something different and could be an impact sub.
I'd go for:
Hart, Carson, Foster (if Hodgson can tempt him out of retirement) Walker, Richards, Cahill, Ferdinand, Jones, Lescott, Cole, Baines. Lennon, Oxlaide-Chamberlain, Milner, Parker, Barry, Lampard, Young, A.Johnson Rooney, Welbeck, Sturridge, Carroll.
Don't rate Walcott, and Gerrard isn't fit enough or in any sort of form.
They'll both go though. And we'll lose whatever, though I think Hodgson is a good choice - the big thing is that he starts to bed the youngsters after the tournament.
He's a 4-4-2 man is old Roy, so wouldnt be at all surprised to see a big man up front. Step up Peter Crouch or Andy Carroll.
Hart Walker and Cole full backs, Ferdinand with one other at CB. Lescott and Jagielka if fit before Cahill. Lennon, Gerard (or Lampard), Parker, Young Crouch or Carroll with Wellbeck (with Rooney coming back in for the 3rd game)
Would think he'll play one of Gerard or Lampard in the advanced midfield role with Parker holding. If he plays Gerard and Lampard together, I'll turn off the tv and do something else.
I don't go for this approach of thinking ahead to the next tournament, in this case Brazil 2014. We should worry about that after this one has finished.
If you are in the competition then you should pick the players you have now in order to try to win it. I don't think we will win it but we have a chance, just as do each of the other 15 teams.
We have to simply pick the players that make a team and fit into a system. These are not necessarily the best individual English players available but 22 that fit together. Does anyone seriously believe that Greece had the best players in Europe available to them when they chose their squad in 2004? Did Denmark have the best players in Europe available to them in 1992? What they did have was a manager with the nous to decide on a system that best fitted with the players at his disposal.
I'd love to see Roy Hodgson just stick to his principles and who knows, we could just 'do a Fulham.' There is absolutely no reason why we shouldn't play Danny Murphy in midfield for example. And I'd love him to leave Rooney and Terry behind.
I don't go for this approach of thinking ahead to the next tournament, in this case Brazil 2014. We should worry about that after this one has finished.
If you are in the competition then you should pick the players you have now in order to try to win it. I don't think we will win it but we have a chance, just as do each of the other 15 teams.
We have to simply pick the players that make a team and fit into a system. These are not necessarily the best individual English players available but 22 that fit together. Does anyone seriously believe that Greece had the best players in Europe available to them when they chose their squad in 2004? Did Denmark have the best players in Europe available to them in 1992? What they did have was a manager with the nous to decide on a system that best fitted with the players at his disposal.
I'd love to see Roy Hodgson just stick to his principles and who knows, we could just 'do a Fulham.' There is absolutely no reason why we shouldn't play Danny Murphy in midfield for example. And I'd love him to leave Rooney and Terry behind.
I total agree with you. We should put in the more young and hungry players or the not so big name players who deserve a chance and leave all the big overpaid Rooney's etc behind. (I would never take Murphy though)
You can't seriously take Holt, an average 31 year-old player who's never played for a big team. No future in the England set-up and is the opposite of what needs to be used in this, stepping stone, tournament.
Definitely need to take Oxlade, Welbeck, Sturridge, Walker, Young, Baines and Richards. Probably more that I've forgotten.
You can't seriously take Holt, an average 31 year-old player who's never played for a big team. No future in the England set-up and is the opposite of what needs to be used in this, stepping stone, tournament.
Definitely need to take Oxlade, Welbeck, Sturridge, Walker, Young, Baines and Richards. Probably more that I've forgotten.
Why is this a stepping stone tournament? What is so certain about Brazil? No European team has ever won the World Cup in South America and I would say that success in Poland / Ukraine is more likely for us.
The reason why people want Holt is because he scores goals - every week - against the same defenders who'll be playing in Euro 2012.
Don't use this tournament as a practise run out for younger players. Play them now by all means if they are good enough an dfit into a team system.Just play the team that stands the best chance of winning games - play to win - NOW!
Yes but Crouch has done it for England against teams like San Marino etc who will not be in the euro's and he struggles to score in the Prem against better defenders. On the other hand Holt is England's 2nd highest goal scorer in the Prem and as Jmelrose is saying Holt does it every week against a better standard of defenders week in week out.
Crouch has failed to score in the eight most testing matches he has appeared in but he only played ten minutes or more in three of these matches, In these eight fixtures he played a total of 178 minutes, so it is fair to say that Crouch has failed to score in 1.98 matches worth of time against the top six teams in the world – not eight matches worth.
Holt got 14 goals this season but if you take into account that half of these were scored against Wolves, Swansea and Blackburn I don't think you could call there defences a 'better standard' than a International team ranked in the top 30 say.
Crouch scored against Man Utd/Man City/Arsenal & liverpool this season so to say he doesn't score against the better premiership teams is incorrect.
To be fair, no matter how logical, no manager will sacrifice a tournament for the chance of doing better in one a couple of years down the road - the idiots who write the papers and their equals who consume them couldn't grasp that at all
You can't seriously take Holt, an average 31 year-old player who's never played for a big team. No future in the England set-up and is the opposite of what needs to be used in this, stepping stone, tournament.
Definitely need to take Oxlade, Welbeck, Sturridge, Walker, Young, Baines and Richards. Probably more that I've forgotten.
scored goals at every level he's played at. Why not at international level? Don't get this malarky about having to play for a big team to get into the england team, that's half the problem. I take it because ashley young moved to man utd he's suddenly become a world class player overnight?
He's also in better form than most of the other english strikers. Why not? Always gives 100%
Comments
I'm not advocating turning it into an under 21 squad nor totally ignoring those players still performing to an international standard level but exactly what would be the point taking Lampard, Ferdinand, Barry or Terry when they are not going to be around in 2 years time? Isn't is the case that the optimum average age for a World Cup winning team is 26/27 and these players are well beyond that.
However, I would not expect any of the four you mention to make Brazil, so I would be tempted to leave them at home - especially if they are going to retire after the tournament. The only caveat to that is if any of those players are going to be needed for the qualifying games before the young players are ready and/or if they are going to be unavailable through injury or suspension. It would be nice to be able to call upon some of the older heads if/when we have big games that we need to win. Any player that is left out of the summer squad is likely to retire from international football.
I think it's much easier to build a squad with little experience in League One than it is at International level. Sending out a team with an average of less than ten caps is, in my view, a massive risk.
If we fail to qualify for Brazil it will be a total disaster!
Hart
Richards jones Cahill cole
Milner lamps Parker Barry
Welbeck crouch
That does not look a great team but the best I could come up with on the top of my head.
I'd go for:
Hart, Carson, Foster (if Hodgson can tempt him out of retirement)
Walker, Richards, Cahill, Ferdinand, Jones, Lescott, Cole, Baines.
Lennon, Oxlaide-Chamberlain, Milner, Parker, Barry, Lampard, Young, A.Johnson
Rooney, Welbeck, Sturridge, Carroll.
Don't rate Walcott, and Gerrard isn't fit enough or in any sort of form.
They'll both go though. And we'll lose whatever, though I think Hodgson is a good choice - the big thing is that he starts to bed the youngsters after the tournament.
DF: Walker, Richards, A. Cole, Baines, Cahill, Terry, Ferdinand, Jones
MF: Parker, Barry, Gerrard, Milner, Young, Sturridge, Lampard, Oxlade-Chamberlain
FW: Rooney, Holt, Carroll, Crouch
Step up Peter Crouch or Andy Carroll.
Hart
Walker and Cole full backs, Ferdinand with one other at CB. Lescott and Jagielka if fit before Cahill.
Lennon, Gerard (or Lampard), Parker, Young
Crouch or Carroll with Wellbeck (with Rooney coming back in for the 3rd game)
Would think he'll play one of Gerard or Lampard in the advanced midfield role with Parker holding. If he plays Gerard and Lampard together, I'll turn off the tv and do something else.
Will be interesting to see what way he goes.
Would take Carroll, he has the ability to be very effective at international level similar to Crouch.
If you are in the competition then you should pick the players you have now in order to try to win it. I don't think we will win it but we have a chance, just as do each of the other 15 teams.
We have to simply pick the players that make a team and fit into a system. These are not necessarily the best individual English players available but 22 that fit together. Does anyone seriously believe that Greece had the best players in Europe available to them when they chose their squad in 2004? Did Denmark have the best players in Europe available to them in 1992? What they did have was a manager with the nous to decide on a system that best fitted with the players at his disposal.
I'd love to see Roy Hodgson just stick to his principles and who knows, we could just 'do a Fulham.' There is absolutely no reason why we shouldn't play Danny Murphy in midfield for example. And I'd love him to leave Rooney and Terry behind.
Definitely need to take Oxlade, Welbeck, Sturridge, Walker, Young, Baines and Richards. Probably more that I've forgotten.
The reason why people want Holt is because he scores goals - every week - against the same defenders who'll be playing in Euro 2012.
Don't use this tournament as a practise run out for younger players. Play them now by all means if they are good enough an dfit into a team system.Just play the team that stands the best chance of winning games - play to win - NOW!
I'd go with Crouch as one of the front two.....under-rated IMO and always seems to do it for England.
I'd say this is the worst England squad I can remember.
Holt got 14 goals this season but if you take into account that half of these were scored against Wolves, Swansea and Blackburn I don't think you could call there defences a 'better standard' than a International team ranked in the top 30 say.
Crouch scored against Man Utd/Man City/Arsenal & liverpool this season so to say he doesn't score against the better premiership teams is incorrect.
He's also in better form than most of the other english strikers. Why not? Always gives 100%
Bit of a kishishev jack of all trades for me
Would love to see hodgson having the nuts to drop Terry as clearly him and Ferdinand have previous but it won't happen