Goal difference or head to head ?

se9addick

According to the the second to last paragraph of this story - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18455690 - the head to head record is used to decide teams on equal points at the Euros.

Going back to Hollands situation, if they beat Portugal and Denmark lose to Germany both will be on 3pts. As Denmark beat Holland surely it means no matter what Holland are going out ?

However, according to this story - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18438935 - the Dutch will progress on goal difference if they beat Portugal by two or more and Denmark lose to Germany.

Do these two stories contradict one another, or am I missing something ?

se9addick

And 7.04 at the bottom of page 12 of the official UEFA rules for the tournament also suggests head to head points will be used -
http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/Regulations/competitions/Regulations/91/48/36/914836_DOWNLOAD.pdf

se9addick

Sorry it's 8.07 at the top of page 15, the previous related to rules for qualifying (says the same though)

oohaahmortimer

yep i'm as confused as you , i thought the head to head was to be used , like they do in the champions league and la liga all be it over two games there

oohaahmortimer

http://www.sportinglife.com/football/euro2012/standings/

oohaahmortimer

portugal will be on 3 points as well as denmark and holland in your scenario above

se9addick

Ah right, so since Holland would have the better g/d out of the three of them they would go through despite Denmark having a better head to head against them ?

cfgs

Yes because Portugal beat Denmark and then Holland beat Portugal (if they do), technically none of them have a better head to head.

Mundell Fleming

The situation in Group C also has the potential to create a high degree of pundit confusion.

Suppose Italy beat Ireland whilst Croatia and Spain play out a draw. The head-to-head mini group of Spain (5pts), Italy (5pts) and Croatia (5ps) would also be tied on points and GD.

In the first instance the score in the Italy v Ireland game would be irrelevant (providing Italy win of course) - it would all be down to the number of goals in the other match. A 0-0 score line would put Spain and Italy through whilst a 2-2 (or higher scoring draw) would see Spain and Croatia progress. Only if the game ends 1-1 does Italy's margin of victory matter.

The scope for late goals during the last Round of games in this group to create drama, confusion and uncertainty is significant. I'm not quite sure how the tie breaker works were the games to end 1-1 and 3-1, but I don't believe it goes straight to lots.

There is even provision for a penalty shoot out to decide qualification for the QFs, but the circumstances in which that might happen are not possible now given the current situation in each of the Groups.

thai malaysia addick

There is a bizarre situation in Group A. If, for example, Greece beat Russia 1-0 and Czech Republic beat Poland 1-0, the only team with a positive goal difference will be Russia yet they will not qualify because they will have lost the head to head with Greece.

Stig

This comes from the competition regulations:

Equality of points after the group matches
8.07 If two or more teams are equal on points on completion of the group matches, the following criteria are applied, in the order given; to determine the rankings:
a) highernumberofpointsobtainedinthematchesamongtheteamsinquestion;
b) superior goal difference in the matches among the teams in question (if more than two teams finish equal on points);
c) higher number of goals scored in the matches among the teams in question (if more than two teams finish equal on points);
d) superiorgoaldifferenceinallthegroupmatches;
e) highernumberofgoalsscoredinallthegroupmatches;
f) position in the UEFA national team coefficient ranking system (see Annex I, paragraph 1.2.2);
g) fairplayconductoftheteams(finaltournament);
h) drawingoflots.

http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/Regulations/uefa/Others/91/48/36/914836_DOWNLOAD.pdf

Mundell Fleming

When I looked at f), g) and h) above before the competition began I was mystified and still am. First, no two countries in UEFA have the same coefficient and hence rank so that g) and h) are entirely superfluous. Second, it seems remarkably unfair to tie-break on the basis of how good teams are judged to be!! Its not even as if the coefficients are a carry forward from the qualifying competition. Fair play (bookings and red cards within the competition) and the lots would seem much fairer. Hence, I assumed I'd misunderstood!!

Stig

Also when you look at a) and b), I don't understand how b) could possibly come into effect: They they only play each other once, so the goal difference will be directly related to points. The only way they'd have the same number of points head to head is if they'd drawn, that would necessarily mean that their goal differences for that match would be the same. Perhaps it plays out differently if there's a three or four-way tie on points, but I can't get my head around that at the moment. It all seems unnecessarily complex to me.

kings hill addick

When I looked at f), g) and h) above before the competition began I was mystified and still am. First, no two countries in UEFA have the same coefficient and hence rank so that g) and h) are entirely superfluous. Second, it seems remarkably unfair to tie-break on the basis of how good teams are judged to be!! Its not even as if the coefficients are a carry forward from the qualifying competition. Fair play (bookings and red cards within the competition) and the lots would seem much fairer. Hence, I assumed I'd misunderstood!!

I think the coefficients are based on all games but a greater weighting is given to competition games, and also to more recent games, so the qualification would be taken into account.

Mundell Fleming

When I looked at f), g) and h) above before the competition began I was mystified and still am. First, no two countries in UEFA have the same coefficient and hence rank so that g) and h) are entirely superfluous. Second, it seems remarkably unfair to tie-break on the basis of how good teams are judged to be!! Its not even as if the coefficients are a carry forward from the qualifying competition. Fair play (bookings and red cards within the competition) and the lots would seem much fairer. Hence, I assumed I'd misunderstood!!

I think the coefficients are based on all games but a greater weighting is given to competition games, and also to more recent games, so the qualification would be taken into account.

Absolutely correct. Taken into account, but not exclusively so. Imagine Charlton missing out on promotion one season, because having finished level on points, GD and then goals scored (throw in head-to-head if you like), the outcome was decided by the result of a Carling Cup tie 18 months ago and/or a random friendly!! And in Euro 2012 this happens, at least based on the tie-break sequence above, before account is taken of fair play within the competition!! It's beyond me I have to say.