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worst manager ever at charlton?
Comments
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Think Theo Foley is getting off lightly on this thread, probably not the worst but in the bottom 3,
3/. Foley
2/. Reed
1/. Craggs
gilbertfilbert said
Can't agree about Foley. He made some brilliant signings when we didn't have the proverbial pot -- Powell, Hales and Flanagan anyone?
Great signings, but took us down to the Div. 3 pub league (Div 1 to our younger viewers) with the remnants of Firmani's side that just missed promo. to the promised land.
Also had us finishing 11th and 13th in the Third Div. prior to being sacked whereas Nelson came in the following season and got us instant promotion.
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Parkinson is a good-to-average lower league manager who didn't have the resources to get us out of the hole Dowie/Reed/Pardew had left us in.0
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Dowie was poor. Spent loads of money and failed to deliver.
Pardew did not have a clue what was going on and he's the worst manager we've had because he spent £1m on McLeod.
Les Reed isn't to blame. Who else was there for us? Thought his appointment was a bit unfair on him.
Parky shouldn't have been sacked IMO (although in glad he was now). Thought he was doing well with limited funds available to him.0 -
Are you allowed to include Dowie? He was never manager. He was part of the new structure.
Anyway, Craggs for me. Closely followed by Pardew.
Reid was a great coach. Just couldnt step up as a manager.0 -
Wasn't Dowie accusing Reed of stitching him up to get the job?0
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Anybody half decent from Firmani's side left other than Peacock, Curtis and young Warman who wasn't really established at that stage.
Think Theo Foley is getting off lightly on this thread, probably not the worst but in the bottom 3,
3/. Foley
2/. Reed
1/. Craggs
gilbertfilbert said
Can't agree about Foley. He made some brilliant signings when we didn't have the proverbial pot -- Powell, Hales and Flanagan anyone?
Great signings, but took us down to the Div. 3 pub league (Div 1 to our younger viewers) with the remnants of Firmani's side that just missed promo. to the promised land.
Also had us finishing 11th and 13th in the Third Div. prior to being sacked whereas Nelson came in the following season and got us instant promotion.
Foley was left with a rebuild job which he actually did quite well but Andy Nelson reaped the benefit of his efforts.
The mere act of signing Hales, Flanagan and Powell keeps Foley out of this discussion in my view as others have also said.0 -
Kenneth Craggs0
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Kenneth Craggs
Craggs was the Parkinson of his time, picking up the sh** left by Mullery who was the real culprit.0 -
That's your opinion, Lenny, but it's still Craggs for me.Kenneth Craggs
Craggs was the Parkinson of his time, picking up the sh** left by Mullery who was the real culprit.
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To be fair to Theo, Firmani's near promotion team of 69 finished third from bottom in 1970 and were on the way down the following season before Theo took over with 3 games to go and we stayed up by the skin of out teeth - again 3rd from bottom ( only 2 down in those days ). OK we went down the following year but the seeds of disaster had been sown, especially following Alan Campbell's falling out with Firmani and his departure to Birmingham.
Theo brought a huge amount money into the club in his transfer dealings. We paid about 5k for the Killer and got a British transfer record of 330K in 1976 and 650K for Flan in 1979. Huge sums I'm those daysy0 -
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Wasn't Dowie accusing Reed of stitching him up to get the job?
A friend of a friend new darren bents old man and DB said reed has stitched up dowie and the players didn't want reed in charge ...
And 12 games only for Dowie was never enough and he got us to the league cup 1/4 s ....not forgetting the enforced coaching structure that murray put on him
I mean murray turned down curbs offer to see out his contract and turned down curbs offer to help find a replacement (curbs preferred choice at the time was mick mccarthy )0 -
Dowie Signings
Good info ISPP. Pretty damning of Pardew whilst suggesting that Dowie's signings were better value. So how does this loan fee business work - did we have to pay (Penarol?) £375k for 57 minutes worth of football?
Cory Gibbs - Feyenoord, £0 (Board Signing) - Released
Gonzalo Sorondo £0 (Board Signing) - Released
Simon Walton - signed for £500,000 - Sold for £200,000
Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink - Middlesbrough, £0 - Released
Djimi Traoré - Liverpool, £2,000,000 - Sold for £1,000,000
Amdy Faye - Newcastle United, £2,000,000 - Sold for Undisclosed fee believed to be £500,000
Scott Carson - Liverpool, season loan - loan ended.
Andy Reid - Tottenham Hotspur, £3,000,000 sold for £5,000.000
Souleymane Diawara - Sochaux, £3,700,000 sold for fee rising to £4,000.000 (which it did)
Omar Pouso Loan - loan fee £375,000 - sent back but will never be missed.
Total Spent £11,575.000 Total Recouped £10,700,000
Pardew signings
Ben Thatcher - Manchester City, £500,000 - Released
Madjid Bougherra - £2,500,000 - £2,500,000
Chris Dickson £35,000 - Released
Martin Christensen £350,000 - Released
Luke Varney - £2,000,000 - Sold for £1,100,000
Chris Iwelumo - Free - Sold for £350,000
Paddy McCarthy - £650,000 - Sold for £500,000
Yassin Moutaouakil - £400,000 - Released
Jose Semedo - Free - Released
Chris Powell - Free - Released
Nicky Weaver - Free - Released
Svetoslav Todorov - Free - Released
Dean Sinclair - £125,000 - Released
Izale McLeod - £1,100,000 - Released
Zheng Zhi -£2,000,000 - Released
Therry Racon - £372,394 - Released
Dorian Smith - £10,000 - Released
Paolo Monteiro - Free - Released
Andy Gray - £1,500,000 - sold for £500,000
Mark Hudson - Free - Sold for £1,075,000
Stuart Fleetwood - £150,000 - Released
Nicky Bailey - £725,000 - Sold for £1,400,000
Plus about 100 loans which some wouldve had fees attached.
Total Spent £12,417,394 Total Recouped £7,425,0000 -
Yes, checked on old website. If we had made it permanent wouldve been extra £1.375mDowie Signings
Good info ISPP. Pretty damning of Pardew whilst suggesting that Dowie's signings were better value. So how does this loan fee business work - did we have to pay (Penarol?) £375k for 57 minutes worth of football?
Cory Gibbs - Feyenoord, £0 (Board Signing) - Released
Gonzalo Sorondo £0 (Board Signing) - Released
Simon Walton - signed for £500,000 - Sold for £200,000
Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink - Middlesbrough, £0 - Released
Djimi Traoré - Liverpool, £2,000,000 - Sold for £1,000,000
Amdy Faye - Newcastle United, £2,000,000 - Sold for Undisclosed fee believed to be £500,000
Scott Carson - Liverpool, season loan - loan ended.
Andy Reid - Tottenham Hotspur, £3,000,000 sold for £5,000.000
Souleymane Diawara - Sochaux, £3,700,000 sold for fee rising to £4,000.000 (which it did)
Omar Pouso Loan - loan fee £375,000 - sent back but will never be missed.
Total Spent £11,575.000 Total Recouped £10,700,000
Pardew signings
Ben Thatcher - Manchester City, £500,000 - Released
Madjid Bougherra - £2,500,000 - £2,500,000
Chris Dickson £35,000 - Released
Martin Christensen £350,000 - Released
Luke Varney - £2,000,000 - Sold for £1,100,000
Chris Iwelumo - Free - Sold for £350,000
Paddy McCarthy - £650,000 - Sold for £500,000
Yassin Moutaouakil - £400,000 - Released
Jose Semedo - Free - Released
Chris Powell - Free - Released
Nicky Weaver - Free - Released
Svetoslav Todorov - Free - Released
Dean Sinclair - £125,000 - Released
Izale McLeod - £1,100,000 - Released
Zheng Zhi -£2,000,000 - Released
Therry Racon - £372,394 - Released
Dorian Smith - £10,000 - Released
Paolo Monteiro - Free - Released
Andy Gray - £1,500,000 - sold for £500,000
Mark Hudson - Free - Sold for £1,075,000
Stuart Fleetwood - £150,000 - Released
Nicky Bailey - £725,000 - Sold for £1,400,000
Plus about 100 loans which some wouldve had fees attached.
Total Spent £12,417,394 Total Recouped £7,425,0000 -
Anybody half decent from Firmani's side left other than Peacock, Curtis and young Warman who wasn't really established at that stage.
Foley was left with a rebuild job which he actually did quite well but Andy Nelson reaped the benefit of his efforts.
The mere act of signing Hales, Flanagan and Powell keeps Foley out of this discussion in my view as others have also said.
In response to Len Glover:
Included in the 1971/72 relegation squad were Ray Treacy, Graham Moore, Peter Reeves and Paul Went as well as the aforementioned Keith Peacock and Bob Curtis all of whom were regulars in Firmani's 1968/68 side.
Sir, I think you do some of the above players a disservice to suggest they were not "half decent".
Just my opinion of course.
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He did buy Simonsen, White, Bullivant and Harris which was a fair amount at the timeKenneth Craggs
Craggs was the Parkinson of his time, picking up the sh** left by Mullery who was the real culprit.0 -
Pardew just beating Dowie/Reed/Craggs0
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Give me the 71 -72 relegation season over the Dowie few months in control.You only had too be on the pre-season tour of Holland and Belgium to see that the season ahead was going to be a nightmare.What he undone in 15games was 15years in the making.DOWIE the one signing i wish Murray did not make.0
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And Murray dumped the structure to get Pardew - Dowie has got a rough press IMO. I don't think he was a great manager but he did have the players fighting for him and made some decent signings and was sacked too early.Wasn't Dowie accusing Reed of stitching him up to get the job?
A friend of a friend new darren bents old man and DB said reed has stitched up dowie and the players didn't want reed in charge ...
And 12 games only for Dowie was never enough and he got us to the league cup 1/4 s ....not forgetting the enforced coaching structure that murray put on him
I mean murray turned down curbs offer to see out his contract and turned down curbs offer to help find a replacement (curbs preferred choice at the time was mick mccarthy )0 -
I don't think Craggs had anything to do with buying Simonsen!!!!
He did buy Simonsen, White, Bullivant and Harris which was a fair amount at the timeKenneth Craggs
Craggs was the Parkinson of his time, picking up the sh** left by Mullery who was the real culprit.0 -
1. Dowie
2. Craggs
3. Pardont
Les Reed wasn't around long enough to do any real damage.
Dowie is the obvious choice.0 -
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Sorry, I know this is miles off topic but what the hell happened with Omar Pouso? He was some brilliant signing and he didn't complete a full game. I-SAW-POUSO-PLAY I suspect you may have the knowledge on this?
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Les reed worst manager but best ever coach0
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I don't think you can say Reed was the best ever coach! He may have been but something we will have very little insight on.0
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Neither do I but he still had the services of one of the best players of his generation and we were still pony!
I don't think Craggs had anything to do with buying Simonsen!!!!Kenneth Craggs
Craggs was the Parkinson of his time, picking up the sh** left by Mullery who was the real culprit.
He did buy Simonsen, White, Bullivant and Harris which was a fair amount at the time0 -
I've always said that Pardew would have made a better job than Parky at keeping us in the Championship so for me it has to be Parky - the number of times we conceded after going ahead under Parky was astonishing, plus his inability to utilize Shelvey suggests that even with any kind of transfer kitty he would have still struggled.
Dowie's signings may have blossomed had he been able to continue, so we may have all been able to eventually see whatever it was that he saw in them. Amdy Faye - not so much.
Pardew had a lot longer with his signings and at least seemed to have a little tactical nous.
Les Reed's tenure was just too short and I'm way too fond of him to include him in this assessment, although I suspect that had he been Parky's right hand man we might have faired better.0 -
Faye did have a good game against Chelsea at the Valley!0
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Graham Moore didn't play at all and Peter Reeves only played half the matches. I must confess though my surprise that Treacy and Went both played virtually the whole season as did Warman incidentally. Sometimes the seasons blend into each other 40 years on!
Anybody half decent from Firmani's side left other than Peacock, Curtis and young Warman who wasn't really established at that stage.
Foley was left with a rebuild job which he actually did quite well but Andy Nelson reaped the benefit of his efforts.
The mere act of signing Hales, Flanagan and Powell keeps Foley out of this discussion in my view as others have also said.
In response to Len Glover:
Included in the 1971/72 relegation squad were Ray Treacy, Graham Moore, Peter Reeves and Paul Went as well as the aforementioned Keith Peacock and Bob Curtis all of whom were regulars in Firmani's 1968/68 side.
Sir, I think you do some of the above players a disservice to suggest they were not "half decent".
Just my opinion of course.
So I guess we're both right :-)0 -
The sad truth is that both Reed and Parkinson were appointed while we were struggling but still in touch. In both cases within 10 games of them taking charge we were effectively finished.0
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I thought Bullivant was Mullery's man and White was a makeweight in the Paul Walsh deal and thus not too much to do with the manager but could be wrong....
He did buy Simonsen, White, Bullivant and Harris which was a fair amount at the timeKenneth Craggs
Craggs was the Parkinson of his time, picking up the sh** left by Mullery who was the real culprit.
EDIT: Bullivant was indeed Craggs' man.
My memory's going :-(
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The team Parky took over were only going one way -the most unbalanced Charlton team I can ever rememeber0
