Allardyce files writ against Blackburn & Steve Kean

Covered End

West Ham manager Sam Allardyce is taking legal action against former club Blackburn and successor Steve Kean.

Full details of the High Court case have not been made public.

Allardyce reportedly instructed solicitors after a video clip was published on the internet in May which allegedly showed Kean criticising him.

A spokesman for Allardyce said: "He has issued legal proceedings against Steve Kean and Blackburn Rovers but is unable to comment further at this time."

No-one from Blackburn was available for comment.

The case was filed at the High Court in London on 12 July.

Kean, who replaced Allardyce as Blackburn boss in December 2010, has stayed on at Ewood Park despite the club's relegation from the Premier League last season and calls from many supporters for him to be sacked.

In the video, Kean appears to make unguarded remarks about Allardyce to supporters in a bar during the club's pre-season tour of Hong Kong in

Lincsaddick

We'll soon be having football highlights on Crown Court rather than Match of the Day

Ormiston_Addick

I'd be more angry with the little wanker that posted a private conversation on the Internet.

This must be a very grey legal area, You Tube are the ultimate publisher of the material - are they liable (probably not) but surely the person who is ultimately liable should be the arsehole that posted it on the Internet without Kean's permission.

When I worked as a journalist you could absolutely NOT record or publish a conversation without authorisation of the person you were interviewing.

Does Kean have a legal case against the tosser that posted this online? Should Allardyce be suing the poster rather than Kean?

Bedsaddick

Absolutely right - the moron that recorded that private conversation is the lowest form of life.

Mortimerician

Ormiston Addick said:

I'd be more angry with the little wanker that posted a private conversation on the Internet.

This must be a very grey legal area, You Tube are the ultimate publisher of the material - are they liable (probably not) but surely the person who is ultimately liable should be the arsehole that posted it on the Internet without Kean's permission.

When I worked as a journalist you could absolutely NOT record or publish a conversation without authorisation of the person you were interviewing.

Does Kean have a legal case against the tosser that posted this online? Should Allardyce be suing the poster rather than Kean?

No. He clearly said it. It's poor conduct, but Keen is an utter buffoon. He's in a public job, getting pissed up and babbling away to a bunch of fans in an age where a 10 quid phone has the technology to record sound and video, is idiotic. If one of his players did it he'd surely fine them. The man has no judgement. Probably drove home after if his form is anything to go by.

Hope Blackburn stick with him.

Floyd Montana

Mortimerician said:

Ormiston Addick said:

I'd be more angry with the little wanker that posted a private conversation on the Internet.

This must be a very grey legal area, You Tube are the ultimate publisher of the material - are they liable (probably not) but surely the person who is ultimately liable should be the arsehole that posted it on the Internet without Kean's permission.

When I worked as a journalist you could absolutely NOT record or publish a conversation without authorisation of the person you were interviewing.

Does Kean have a legal case against the tosser that posted this online? Should Allardyce be suing the poster rather than Kean?

No. He clearly said it. It's poor conduct, but Keen is an utter buffoon. He's in a public job, getting pissed up and babbling away to a bunch of fans in an age where a 10 quid phone has the technology to record sound and video, is idiotic. If one of his players did it he'd surely fine them. The man has no judgement. Probably drove home after if his form is anything to go by.

Blimey, thats 7,622 miles - quite a drive!
More likely he took a taxi to his hotel.
Sorry to spoil a good supposition!

Ormiston_Addick

Mortimerician said:

Ormiston Addick said:

I'd be more angry with the little wanker that posted a private conversation on the Internet.

This must be a very grey legal area, You Tube are the ultimate publisher of the material - are they liable (probably not) but surely the person who is ultimately liable should be the arsehole that posted it on the Internet without Kean's permission.

When I worked as a journalist you could absolutely NOT record or publish a conversation without authorisation of the person you were interviewing.

Does Kean have a legal case against the tosser that posted this online? Should Allardyce be suing the poster rather than Kean?

No. He clearly said it. It's poor conduct, but Keen is an utter buffoon. He's in a public job, getting pissed up and babbling away to a bunch of fans in an age where a 10 quid phone has the technology to record sound and video, is idiotic. If one of his players did it he'd surely fine them. The man has no judgement. Probably drove home after if his form is anything to go by.

Hope Blackburn stick with him.

That's all fine, but as I recall this took place in a dark bar or club, Kean was probably not even thinking that the people he was talking to would be recording him.

I mean, at what point does one have to abandon all trust in fellow human beings? Not forgetting that he thought he was talking to Blackburn fans!

I have had some wonderfully indiscreet conversations with people over the years but it's well known on both parts that it's strictly off the record and not for attribution.

You should have heard who Tony Jiminez told me we were buying......

Wheresmeticket

Doesnt matter who recorded it, he said it.

I think that's slander, no?

UK libel laws are a bit of joke tbh. Hence you get wealthy Americans sueing each other in our courts?

(Entirely unsubstantiated belief, and I am quite happy to be shot down in flames).

Uboat

Obviously he was very careless, but I think there's a bit of 'let he who is without sin cast the first stone'.
I someone had recorded all my pub conversations and made them available to the public I would be in a world of trouble.

Ormiston_Addick

Wheresmeticket? said:

Doesnt matter who recorded it, he said it.

I think that's slander, no?

UK libel laws are a bit of joke tbh. Hence you get wealthy Americans sueing each other in our courts?

(Entirely unsubstantiated belief, and I am quite happy to be shot down in flames).

It's only slander if it's not true!

Secondly, of course it matters who recorded it and under what circumstances.

Kean made these remarks to a handful of people in a private conversation in a bar, he did not choose to make them available to the broader public, nor was he advised that his remarks would be made public.

If Kean went on Sky News and made these remarks in front of 5 million people live on TV then he would be bang in trouble, but he did not.

The damages and punishment for libel is always dictated by the size of the audience, ie the amount of damage caused by the alleged libel.

As Kean made his comments in a private setting and they were then made public without his knowledge or consent via You Tube then he will have a strong defence against the action.

This has the makings of a landmark legal case.

Mortimerician

Ormiston Addick said:

Mortimerician said:

Ormiston Addick said:

I'd be more angry with the little wanker that posted a private conversation on the Internet.

This must be a very grey legal area, You Tube are the ultimate publisher of the material - are they liable (probably not) but surely the person who is ultimately liable should be the arsehole that posted it on the Internet without Kean's permission.

When I worked as a journalist you could absolutely NOT record or publish a conversation without authorisation of the person you were interviewing.

Does Kean have a legal case against the tosser that posted this online? Should Allardyce be suing the poster rather than Kean?

No. He clearly said it. It's poor conduct, but Keen is an utter buffoon. He's in a public job, getting pissed up and babbling away to a bunch of fans in an age where a 10 quid phone has the technology to record sound and video, is idiotic. If one of his players did it he'd surely fine them. The man has no judgement. Probably drove home after if his form is anything to go by.

Hope Blackburn stick with him.

That's all fine, but as I recall this took place in a dark bar or club, Kean was probably not even thinking that the people he was talking to would be recording him.

I mean, at what point does one have to abandon all trust in fellow human beings? Not forgetting that he thought he was talking to Blackburn fans!

I have had some wonderfully indiscreet conversations with people over the years but it's well known on both parts that it's strictly off the record and not for attribution.

You should have heard who Tony Jiminez told me we were buying......

I think he was talking to Blackburn fans: a sizeable group of them have been protesting his presence since he started there. I'm not saying that they're not morally bankrupt human beings for doing this, but he's a dope for discussing such matters with complete strangers in a pub, while a bit sozzled, given the nature of his position. Not sure about you but there's very little public interest in my dealings, but I know not to blab on about my business with folk that I've just met in a boozer - or indeed anywhere that I can be overheard. Throw the fact that he's a very newsworthy Premiership manager that should have been through media/public training and I cannot see how he shouldn't have known better. If he'd been with a journalist he might have been a bit more alert and the journalist might have been a bit clearer about whether he was going to release details, but members of the public aren't looking at any kind of ongoing relationship and don't have a code of conduct. What they do have - which is a relatively new thing: is the ability to record conversations and publish them instantly on the internet, which means if you're a person of interest you should be guarded in what you put out there. Again - not saying that's not wrong, but it's the way of it. I shouldn't really have to lock my door without the concern that some scrote is going to lift all my stuff, but common sense dictates that I do.

No expert on the legalities, but being on film saying this stuff isn't going to help his case. I do wonder though if the publisher of the media - who must have gone through youtube's Ts and Cs, might also get dragged into this, which would be an interesting irony that might make others think twice about covert operations.

thenewbie

I agree that it really should be the little scrote who put it on Youtube who should be in trouble. Back in the Dowie/Pardew/Parky days I had conversations with some friends at the match or a pub re: the standard of football/lack thereof that would surely be libellous if they weren't just talk between mates!

On the other hand, Kean should have known better. On the OTHER other hand, this is Steve Kean. He does not strike me as Mr Clever.

Ormiston_Addick

Mortimerician said:

Ormiston Addick said:

Mortimerician said:

Ormiston Addick said:

I'd be more angry with the little wanker that posted a private conversation on the Internet.

This must be a very grey legal area, You Tube are the ultimate publisher of the material - are they liable (probably not) but surely the person who is ultimately liable should be the arsehole that posted it on the Internet without Kean's permission.

When I worked as a journalist you could absolutely NOT record or publish a conversation without authorisation of the person you were interviewing.

Does Kean have a legal case against the tosser that posted this online? Should Allardyce be suing the poster rather than Kean?

No. He clearly said it. It's poor conduct, but Keen is an utter buffoon. He's in a public job, getting pissed up and babbling away to a bunch of fans in an age where a 10 quid phone has the technology to record sound and video, is idiotic. If one of his players did it he'd surely fine them. The man has no judgement. Probably drove home after if his form is anything to go by.

Hope Blackburn stick with him.

That's all fine, but as I recall this took place in a dark bar or club, Kean was probably not even thinking that the people he was talking to would be recording him.

I mean, at what point does one have to abandon all trust in fellow human beings? Not forgetting that he thought he was talking to Blackburn fans!

I have had some wonderfully indiscreet conversations with people over the years but it's well known on both parts that it's strictly off the record and not for attribution.

You should have heard who Tony Jiminez told me we were buying......

I think he was talking to Blackburn fans: a sizeable group of them have been protesting his presence since he started there. I'm not saying that they're not morally bankrupt human beings for doing this, but he's a dope for discussing such matters with complete strangers in a pub, while a bit sozzled, given the nature of his position. Not sure about you but there's very little public interest in my dealings, but I know not to blab on about my business with folk that I've just met in a boozer - or indeed anywhere that I can be overheard. Throw the fact that he's a very newsworthy Premiership manager that should have been through media/public training and I cannot see how he shouldn't have known better. If he'd been with a journalist he might have been a bit more alert and the journalist might have been a bit clearer about whether he was going to release details, but members of the public aren't looking at any kind of ongoing relationship and don't have a code of conduct. What they do have - which is a relatively new thing: is the ability to record conversations and publish them instantly on the internet, which means if you're a person of interest you should be guarded in what you put out there. Again - not saying that's not wrong, but it's the way of it. I shouldn't really have to lock my door without the concern that some scrote is going to lift all my stuff, but common sense dictates that I do.

No expert on the legalities, but being on film saying this stuff isn't going to help his case. I do wonder though if the publisher of the media - who must have gone through youtube's Ts and Cs, might also get dragged into this, which would be an interesting irony that might make others think twice about covert operations.

I agree he was foolish for talking like that in front of strangers BUT it was a private conversation so, as you say, I think the ultimate fault should and may lie with the uploader and publisher of the material.

Back in the early 90's I interviewed an England fast bowler, a very well known player, who gave me chapter and verse of the "ball tamperers" in Test and County cricket - but that was before the days of Smartphones and tiny recording devices!

Ollywozere

But at what point did Kean think it was a good idea to make those comments to a bunch of fans in a bar? It's totally different to having a convo down the pub with your mates. Obviously when he makes inflammatory comments like that to random fans it's going to at least end up on a message board somewhere. Unlucky for him it was filmed. Shows the man's stupidity in my opinion.

JiMMy 85

What I found saddest about it was Kean's desperation to make the fans like him. He told them that stuff because he wants to impress them, give them an inside scoop. Tell their friends. That kind of thing.

I agree that it's harsh to pull him up when he had no intention of posting those thoughts on the 'net, but when he decided to tell them, I would wager in the back of his mind, that he hoped the word would be spread a little bit. Perhaps not quite so obviously.

se9addick

On what grounds can he take legal action against Kean ? How is Kean guilty of slander if the conversation was private, taped without his knowledge and published without his knowledge or consent ?

Wheresmeticket

Allardyce vs Kean.

A proper boreathon.

Ormiston_Addick

JiMMy 85 said:

What I found saddest about it was Kean's desperation to make the fans like him. He told them that stuff because he wants to impress them, give them an inside scoop. Tell their friends. That kind of thing.

I agree that it's harsh to pull him up when he had no intention of posting those thoughts on the 'net, but when he decided to tell them, I would wager in the back of his mind, that he hoped the word would be spread a little bit. Perhaps not quite so obviously.

Your first paragraph is spot on, they were my exact thoughts when I watched it.

Ormiston_Addick

se9addick said:

On what grounds can he take legal action against Kean ? How is Kean guilty of slander if the conversation was private, taped without his knowledge and published without his knowledge or consent ?

It can be libel or slander if you even make the remarks to one person, the issue then becomes th extent to which the claimant's reputation has been damaged.

Therefore, a slander said live on BBC six o'clock news would be more serious than one printed in Fishermans Weekly or a minor periodical.

In this case the fact that the press went on to publish Kean's remarks, despite knowing they were very likely libellous if unable to be proven makes me wonder if they will also be culpable.

This case will be fascinating to follow if it goes to court, it raises some intriguing legal questions around the way technology such as You Tube fits into the current legal framework.

BlackForestReds

In this case the fact that the press went on to publish Kean's remarks, despite knowing they were very likely libellous if unable to be proven makes me wonder if they will also be culpable.

It would be classed as innocent dissemination of information if they were repeating something thinking that it was genuine, the other get out is to report something libellous in the context of a story eg "Steve Kean alleged that Big Sam did something illegal".

In this case SA has a case against Kean and Youtube* as the medium, I'm not sure that Blackburn are culpable in any way, unless it can be proven that Steve Kean was speaking on behalf of BRFC.

* Similarly if you repeat a libel in a newspaper, book or other print matter, and even retail outlets who sell publications containing the libel can be included in the writ.

Mortimerician

Repeating it is the same as saying it. Interesting indeed. If I was keen's lawyer I'd be breaking out the fuckwit defence.

Floyd Montana

Mortimerician said:

Repeating it is the same as saying it. Interesting indeed. If I was keen's lawyer I'd be breaking out the fuckwit defence.

Er.... werent you the one saying he ''probably drove home drunk''?
When he was in Hong Kong?

what does that make you?

Mortimerician

It was a sarcastic comment based on Mr Keen's earlier, well publicised, prediliction for the taking of the wheel after a wee (or not so wee) bevvie. I was well aware that he was in Hong Kong when the comment was made and would probably be unable to drive home in an aquatic or flying car, even if he wanted to. I will mark any future comments of a blindingly obviously non-factual nature to assist the Hard-of-Thinking. Sorry for any befuddlement caused.

Floyd Montana

yeeesss