Waited a tiny bit too long and didn't get the jump, but a great effort, and shows what you can do if you don't try and rely on other teams as well as your own to win a race
She took a risk she was brave and took it on her self
And sometimes that's what you need to do to win sometimes
Read into that what you want but too me he is saying to cavendish and the rest that when a plan ain't working find another alternative and that's what the men failed to do
nla I agree totally mate but seeing as we ain't cyclists we're probably completely wrong. Yes Cav is weaker in long distances and needs to be nurtured to the front for a win, but there was 30 of them in the box hill breakaway and I reckon if Cav went with them we would be adding to our medals now, not winning our first one.
She took a risk she was brave and took it on her self
And sometimes that's what you need to do to win sometimes
Read into that what you want but too me he is saying to cavendish and the rest that when a plan ain't working find another alternative and that's what the men failed to do
Not liking the men's cycling nla? I think the thing is with the men's is that Cavendish isn't the type of cyclist that would have been able to do what the lady just did. The other alternative would have been to breakaway as a group to set someone else up but they would have just gassed out playing catch up.
She took a risk she was brave and took it on her self
And sometimes that's what you need to do to win sometimes
Read into that what you want but too me he is saying to cavendish and the rest that when a plan ain't working find another alternative and that's what the men failed to do
The thing is our tactics yesterday were actually spot on until the very last climb on box hill. That is when we were a little slow to respond to a breakaway, but we thought they'd be able to reel them in, but unfortunately it wasn't to be. But at the same time if the Germans etc had tried to help us out, and also set up their sprinters, chances our we would have reeled in the breakaway. That's not saying that we should have relied on them to help us, but Cav is right when he says people would have preferred to not win than see us win, and ultimately that meant our tactics fell a bit short,despite the likes of Stannard and Wiggins working unbelievably hard at the front of the peloton.
Not a cycling expert by any means and have no idea why "the team" plays such a big part when the winner is an individual ( there IS an "i" in individual....) Ultimately, it's who has the guts, determination and perhaps a small slice of luck that comes out on top IMHO. Lizzie had them all today and only missed out on the premier accolade by a bike's length. Well done her !
Have watched a lot of athletic events over the years so have some inkling of "running as a team" in the long distances on the track eg the Kenyans who take it in turns to take it on from the front /slow it down/speed it up. And more often than not, one of them wins.
However, does Mo Farrar need team members to help him ? No. End of. He runs his own race and the rest is history.
Didn't hear Cavendish's interview yesterday but having now read his reaction, am not impressed. Still stick to my view that he ( and the media on the day) believed he already had the medal in his pocket when the race started. Of course, it's good to be confident but maybe there was an element of arrogance ????
Final thought from someone who, like Manuel, knows nothing . Yesterday, said commentators mentioned the energy that had been committed to the Tour de France stages by the GB cyclists but immediately stated clearly that this is their "day job" ie they do this for a living & hence would be insulted if this was quoted as a factor in the result - so, no excuses there then, lads. As a previous poster with similar views to myself stated, there was no Plan B. Let's hope lessons were learned for next time.
She took a risk she was brave and took it on her self
And sometimes that's what you need to do to win sometimes
Read into that what you want but too me he is saying to cavendish and the rest that when a plan ain't working find another alternative and that's what the men failed to do
Not liking the men's cycling nla? I think the thing is with the men's is that Cavendish isn't the type of cyclist that would have been able to do what the lady just did. The other alternative would have been to breakaway as a group to set someone else up but they would have just gassed out playing catch up.
Not dislike more a lack of knowledge an understanding
I hate excuses as to why and when I heard cavendish say what he did if I am honest I am glad he didn't win
I think that to win a race of that distance you should have more about you than just be able to sprint at the end
do they have a 1000 meter sprint race where he can show how good he is
And if he ain't good enough to do what the lady just did why were we setting it for him
Stupid IMO it's the Olympics go and bloody do it yourself
What to say he didn't win because others would rather be didn't win than them winning
That is nonsense
He lost because he and his team got it wrong , they should've built a team to cope with all things that can happen in a race an if that means that a huge rival decides not to help you win then have the testicular fortitude to go out and try and win it
And if cavendish could t win a race from that position then why didn't we have someone In the team that could
What to say he didn't win because others would rather be didn't win than them winning
That is nonsense
He lost because he and his team got it wrong , they should've built a team to cope with all things that can happen in a race an if that means that a huge rival decides not to help you win then have the testicular fortitude to go out and try and win it
And if cavendish could t win a race from that position then why didn't we have someone In the team that could
I guarantee you that the people in the first breakaway did not expect it to succeed the ONLY reason the breakaway did suceed is because nobody, except Tony Martin, was helping out in the Peleton. It's also a fact that had the Germans helped out we would have pegged back the breakaway and probably would have a Gold Medal. However, I do agree that we put all our eggs in one basket but with a 5 man team it's all you can do
What to say he didn't win because others would rather be didn't win than them winning
That is nonsense
The thing is it's not nonsense at all. If the Germans, Aussie's and the teams who like us were relying on a sprinter to win it for them weren't so fearful of Cav and his sprinting ability, then they would have worked with us to reel in the breakaway (and with say 9 riders working for the peloton this would have worked) and try and set up a sprint finish for their men. As it was, they all knew Cav would hammer their men in a bunch sprint so werent interested in setting up their own spinters.
I'm not saying we should have relied on others, but often in cycling its what happens. Even though Lizzie today rode fantastically, she still needed Vos and the Russian in the breakaway to help get the finish without the peloton catching them.
In hindsight maybe one of the GB boys should have gone with the breakaway, but at the time i'm sure they would have expected the Germans and Aussies to want to try to catch the breakaway with us so thought it wasn't an issue. Obviously that turned out to not be the case.
Once again, have to agree with nla's comments. Have watched a lot of athletic events over the years so have some inkling of "running as a team" in the long distances on the track eg the Kenyans who take it in turns to take it on from the front /slow it down/speed it up. And more often than not, one of them wins.
However, does Mo Farrar need team members to help him ? No. End of. He runs his own race and the rest is history.
The pace (particularly if made erratic) of a long-distance running race can of course be hugely significant, in cycle road races too. But the additional element in cycling is the significant drag effect (benefit) of sitting in the wheels of the leader (as in Formula 1). That's why the peloton occurs, it's why the breakaway group of 4 (then 3) today rotated the lead to make it easier for all 3 of them to keep the peloton at bay, i.e. until the last 2 Km they raced as a "team". It's easy to underestimate the effect of that because you get nothing like it in a race on foot. That is why team tactics in a cycle road race can be hugely influential though not necessarily decisive, as is evident.
I guarantee you that the people in the first breakaway did not expect it to succeed the ONLY reason the breakaway did suceed is because nobody, except Tony Martin, was helping out in the Peleton. It's also a fact that had the Germans helped out we would have pegged back the breakaway and probably would have a Gold Medal.
Sorry mate but I completely disagree, there was upto 30 people in that breakaway and as soon as they got a minute ahead alarm bells were ringing, it's a lot easier for 30 people to spread the workload and keep pace up than 3 or 4 people that is usually the case, and from then on we had no chance. I don't think it's fact that if the Germans helped we would have caught them either, they simply misjudged it and Team GB should have attacked and gone ahead of the Peloton.
Why didn't Team GB even try bridge the gap themselves yesterday?
Why didn't Team GB even try bridge the gap themselves yesterday?
They don't work by bridging the gap but upping the tempo, riding as a team and then waiting for the breakaway to run out of steam and slow up. These are tried methods and work in the track racing with each cyclist in the chasing group doing their stint at the front and then letting the next through and so on. If you watched the chase today you'll have seen that happening. Usually the one at the front will flick their right elbow out as a sign for the next rider to come through and then the leader will pull off to the left and take their place at athe back of the chasers.
Chasing a breakaway aggressively is a bit extreme and puts the onus on one rider and pretty much will kill them. Look at Emma Pooley today - she tracked down a couple of breakaways using that method and had nothing left so when the four girls broke off she was unable to go with them and couldn't as far as I could tell even take a prominent role in the peloton as a plan b if the breakaway failed. I know she punctured and trailed in well down the GC but her bolt was well and truly shot from all the hard work she had done on Box Hill.
But my point BFR is the breakaway had about 30 people in it, and was clearly not going to run out of steam by the end of the race, so why couldn't a team of 5 up the tempo and break off the front of the peloton, even dragging a couple of the other riders with them, to catch the original breakaway group? Sitting there hoping the rest of the peloton was going to help out wasn't going to work and that was clear quite quickly, if we reacted early surely we would have had the time and the riders to bridge?
I was disgusted by Cavendish's reaction to a very simple question i.e. did the Tour de France have anything to do with his failure to win. I'm afraid he has done nothing to sway my view that a lot of cyclists are very arrogant. I wanted him to win but I don't like his attitude.
I live quite near Pilgrim's Way in Kent and we have a lot of cyclists riding along the road. Most will not let a car pass if they are going slowly and they are always littering the road with their plastic bottles and other rubbish. It might be okay on a major road race when there are people to pick up their rubbish but it isn't acceptable on country roads.
A large majority of cyclists think the rules of the road don't apply to them, such as stopping at red lights and giving way on pedestrian crossings. Many also seem to ride on the pavement where it is allowed, but where the pavement is designated for cyclists , they seem to take great delight in riding on the road and holding up other traffic.
At that point they'd raced well over 200KM and the British team had already done a lot of hard work in dragging back two other breakaways - the first of which had taken a lead of over 5 minutes. As I pointed out in the first post in this thread that was why Ian Stannard was in the team - simply to do all the hard, unseen and unappreciated graft in mid-race.
The rest of the peloton didn't help because with the exception of Germany they either had riders in the 30 man breakaway and therefore had no interest in dragging the breakaway back or had no hope in winning themselves/weren't going to be good enough to ride at a strong tempo.
Breakaway only had 15+ but bridged to a dozen. Such a collection of nations that any with an interest in the 1st group wouldn't help chase. Seems only Germans of strong nations were chasing and they bottled. Not sute I'd want a kraut in team Sky in future.
Today, Lizzie did well but I think she was in wrong gear for sprint. Legs not churning enough.
ME14...I accept a lot of cyclists do have a tendency to think they own the road and there a lot of accidents every year from this kind of stupidity. But Cavendish was asked a question and gave the correct cycling answer.
It's strange that in an era when we get anodyne carefully prepared answers from sportsmen which generate cynicism that when one actually says the right thing that there is the impression that he's being arrogant.
Cavendish could only win by riding this way and the British team prepared and planned their strategy around that. If they had stuck a rider or two in the breakaway then they would have wrecked any chance Cavendish had of winning. Millar, Stannard, Froome and Wiggins were utterly magnificent in the way they rode the race. To ride that way and at that tempo for well over 200KM fending off repeated attacks while keeping a lid on the race was going to be difficult at the best of times.
Today, Lizzie did well but I think she was in wrong gear for sprint. Legs not churning enough.
I thought she was on too low a gear, she seemed to be cycling faster than Vos who appeared to be on a higher gear, but I think Vos would have won under pretty much any circumstances. The accepted wisdom is to sit on the wheel and come out of the slipstream which Armitstead did but Vos had more than enough left, there's no disgrace in being outsprinted by her.
BFR he didn't have to say it in the manner in which he did. The vast majority of people watching are not cyclists and think the question was a perfectly reasonable one.
Being a complete novice at road racing, was just wondering when it become apparent that Cavendish wasn't going to win (around the last lap of box hill as i understand it) did the GB team have anyone capable of joining the break away group and have a chance of winning on his own, or was there only ever going to be 1 winner from team GB, ie they only have a plan A.
I know nothing about cycling so this may be a really naive question, but why shouldn't Cavendish have been instructed simply to go with any breakaway so that he would be in the right place at the end no matter what else happened? I am really surprised that the British team, who knew exactly what to expect from the other riders and must have gone over and over tactics in minute detail before the race, were caught out so easily.
Fair enough - but sticking a microphone under someone's nose moments after finishing and expecting a replay as literate as Shakespeare and as diplomatic as Ban Ki-Moon is perhaps expecting a bit much as well.
Once again, have to agree with nla's comments. Have watched a lot of athletic events over the years so have some inkling of "running as a team" in the long distances on the track eg the Kenyans who take it in turns to take it on from the front /slow it down/speed it up. And more often than not, one of them wins.
However, does Mo Farrar need team members to help him ? No. End of. He runs his own race and the rest is history.
The pace (particularly if made erratic) of a long-distance running race can of course be hugely significant, in cycle road races too. But the additional element in cycling is the significant drag effect (benefit) of sitting in the wheels of the leader (as in Formula 1). That's why the peloton occurs, it's why the breakaway group of 4 (then 3) today rotated the lead to make it easier for all 3 of them to keep the peloton at bay, i.e. until the last 2 Km they raced as a "team". It's easy to underestimate the effect of that because you get nothing like it in a race on foot. That is why team tactics in a cycle road race can be hugely influential though not necessarily decisive, as is evident.
I believe the benefit is something like a 30% reduction in effort for the rider in behind i.e. as a unit the GB boys put in nearly a third more effort than the others in the peleton in an effort to pull back the breakaway with little or no help at all. Not surprising they ran out of steam a bit really.
Comments
Shame they didn't have a straight for the last 1000 meters
And she is cute very pretty smile
Don't rely on no one but yourself
She took a risk she was brave and took it on her self
And sometimes that's what you need to do to win sometimes
Read into that what you want but too me he is saying to cavendish and the rest that when a plan ain't working find another alternative and that's what the men failed to do
So happy for Lizzie though, fantastic ride.
What was up with all the punctures?
Not a cycling expert by any means and have no idea why "the team" plays such a big part when the winner is an individual ( there IS an "i" in individual....) Ultimately, it's who has the guts, determination and perhaps a small slice of luck that comes out on top IMHO. Lizzie had them all today and only missed out on the premier accolade by a bike's length. Well done her !
Have watched a lot of athletic events over the years so have some inkling of "running as a team" in the long distances on the track eg the Kenyans who take it in turns to take it on from the front /slow it down/speed it up. And more often than not, one of them wins.
However, does Mo Farrar need team members to help him ? No. End of. He runs his own race and the rest is history.
Didn't hear Cavendish's interview yesterday but having now read his reaction, am not impressed. Still stick to my view that he ( and the media on the day) believed he already had the medal in his pocket when the race started. Of course, it's good to be confident but maybe there was an element of arrogance ????
Final thought from someone who, like Manuel, knows nothing . Yesterday, said commentators mentioned the energy that had been committed to the Tour de France stages by the GB cyclists but immediately stated clearly that this is their "day job" ie they do this for a living & hence would be insulted if this was quoted as a factor in the result - so, no excuses there then, lads. As a previous poster with similar views to myself stated, there was no Plan B. Let's hope lessons were learned for next time.
Not dislike more a lack of knowledge an understanding
I hate excuses as to why and when I heard cavendish say what he did if I am honest I am glad he didn't win
I think that to win a race of that distance you should have more about you than just be able to sprint at the end
do they have a 1000 meter sprint race where he can show how good he is
And if he ain't good enough to do what the lady just did why were we setting it for him
Stupid IMO it's the Olympics go and bloody do it yourself
That is nonsense
He lost because he and his team got it wrong , they should've built a team to cope with all things that can happen in a race an if that means that a huge rival decides not to help you win then have the testicular fortitude to go out and try and win it
And if cavendish could t win a race from that position then why didn't we have someone In the team that could
However, I do agree that we put all our eggs in one basket but with a 5 man team it's all you can do
Why didn't Team GB even try bridge the gap themselves yesterday?
Why didn't Team GB even try bridge the gap themselves yesterday?
They don't work by bridging the gap but upping the tempo, riding as a team and then waiting for the breakaway to run out of steam and slow up. These are tried methods and work in the track racing with each cyclist in the chasing group doing their stint at the front and then letting the next through and so on. If you watched the chase today you'll have seen that happening. Usually the one at the front will flick their right elbow out as a sign for the next rider to come through and then the leader will pull off to the left and take their place at athe back of the chasers.
Chasing a breakaway aggressively is a bit extreme and puts the onus on one rider and pretty much will kill them. Look at Emma Pooley today - she tracked down a couple of breakaways using that method and had nothing left so when the four girls broke off she was unable to go with them and couldn't as far as I could tell even take a prominent role in the peloton as a plan b if the breakaway failed. I know she punctured and trailed in well down the GC but her bolt was well and truly shot from all the hard work she had done on Box Hill.
I live quite near Pilgrim's Way in Kent and we have a lot of cyclists riding along the road. Most will not let a car pass if they are going slowly and they are always littering the road with their plastic bottles and other rubbish. It might be okay on a major road race when there are people to pick up their rubbish but it isn't acceptable on country roads.
A large majority of cyclists think the rules of the road don't apply to them, such as stopping at red lights and giving way on pedestrian crossings. Many also seem to ride on the pavement where it is allowed, but where the pavement is designated for cyclists , they seem to take great delight in riding on the road and holding up other traffic.
The rest of the peloton didn't help because with the exception of Germany they either had riders in the 30 man breakaway and therefore had no interest in dragging the breakaway back or had no hope in winning themselves/weren't going to be good enough to ride at a strong tempo.
Today, Lizzie did well but I think she was in wrong gear for sprint. Legs not churning enough.
It's strange that in an era when we get anodyne carefully prepared answers from sportsmen which generate cynicism that when one actually says the right thing that there is the impression that he's being arrogant.
Cavendish could only win by riding this way and the British team prepared and planned their strategy around that. If they had stuck a rider or two in the breakaway then they would have wrecked any chance Cavendish had of winning. Millar, Stannard, Froome and Wiggins were utterly magnificent in the way they rode the race. To ride that way and at that tempo for well over 200KM fending off repeated attacks while keeping a lid on the race was going to be difficult at the best of times.