Ask for a full definition of excessive and what is non-excessive. Then ask for a comparison with all other staff in the org. Since techinically you are in the wrong best to use the "everyone else does it and you are victimising me if you can't prove I'm worse than others" defence.
Get a rep to support you at the hearing (you have the right under DTI guidelines see www.dti.gov.uk) and ask for a copy of the company internet user policy.
Also worth bigging up charity work for Demelza etc as the reason for the use of internet as "sacked for helping dieing kids" is not a good headline in the paper.
That will be £600 or a bottle of Belgium beer sometime in May.
[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]Ask for a full definition of excessive and what is non-excessive. Then ask for a comparison with all other staff in the org. Since techinically you are in the wrong best to use the "everyone else does it and you are victimising me if you can't prove I'm worse than others" defence.
Get a rep to support you at the hearing (you have the right under DTI guidelines seewww.dti.gov.uk) and ask for a copy of the company internet user policy.
Also worth bigging up charity work for Demelza etc as the reason for the use of internet as "sacked for helping dieing kids" is not a good headline in the paper.
That will be £600 or a bottle of Belgium beer sometime in May.
Thanks for the dti link Henry as I've not tried that -mainly as my Interweb access has presently been removed at work.
I'm aware of most of the advice you've kindly provided me - so a half litre will have to do. The Demelza part could be useful as well - hadn't thought of that.
Never been issued with an Internet policy (until this week) or a disciplinary policy (until this week). Never had a proper induction, never had an appraisal, never had any indication of poor performance, never had notice that my IT use ws being monitored, am the only one being 'victimised' in this way, have proof of the CEO having private web pages being printed off for him and having his holidays and flights booked by his PA etc etc.
I think they're a bit pissed off that there were no 'dodgy' sites on the list - unless you count Palace's BBS.
Have another job interview on Saturday "Can you make it as early as possible as I have an appointment in the afternoon" lol.
Seriously considering consructive dismissal which is a big move for me at my age and in my position with the company. I know the money is crap this way, but it's the principal.
Some advice as to how to negotiate a way out with a compromise agreement with a sad entrenched CEO who still works with a 1950's attitude would be useful. And please don't suggest Dowie's brief!
It's important to stand your ground and not be bullied or pushed into a corner,take the above advise and carry on with work as normal, stay of the site and snoop around to see what else is really going on. do they want you out?
Does the company have an AUP (acceptable use policy) for internet and email use? Where I work we aren't allowed access to the net unless we've signed this. If they don't have one then
a) how are you supposed to know what they deem excessive
and
b) they are leaving themselves wide open to major problems if they try to discipline staff for doing anything more dodgy than just "excessive use"
I had a similar situation last week at work. Apparently I had a lot of hits on sports websites. I told them that I go to soccernet.com and bring up a gamecast box for games that are being played. The gamecast box refreshes itself every 30 seconds so there are 180 hits per 90 minute game. Sometimes I will have 2 or 3 of them up at at a time. I also told them that because that IT is a pretty boring job why can't I go check scores every now and then. They just told me to tone it down. I also use internet for work so they can't take it away. Don't let them hound you out. Unles they have specific info that you are on the Charlton Life forum all day you can talk your way out of it. Of course if they want to get rid of someone there will always be an excuse. Luckily I have saved my manager many a time so she sticks up for me.
[cite]Posted By: Addickted[/cite]Couple of points.
It's an investigation at this stage rather than a disciplinary.
And not sure who would hire a 'management trainer' who can't post an internet link properly ;-)
Yes Management and Business Coach not IT trainer. You can get any IT geek to show you how to put a link in (sorry all you IT geek) but can they explain transactional analysis so it makes sense? ;-0
If it is still an investigation then just keep on the "you never told me until this week, everyone does it including the CEO and you are not acting reasonably" as this is the test at a tribunial. Keep a record of all the dates, actions etc. Tell them you've taken advice from a CIPD member (me). The HR people will think I know what I'm talking about even if the rest of you know I don't. :-(
The no appraisal or warning is key as if this is part of their procedure and they have not followed it correctly they will be seen to be partially liable in court.
They have left themselves wide open by not issuing the policies and induction at the right time. If they were my client (maybe I should ring and offer my services) I'd say "draw a line in the sand now and make it clear to all staff that mis-use of the interweb thingy is a disciplinary offence but don't try to take Mr Addickted on as you will lose and it will cost you more than the few pence of the internet costs.
It's also worth getting a case to together as to your value to the organisation. Work done, money saved, targets met, happy customers (like they should have been talking about in your appraisal). Would strongly advise gettting a union or similar trained representative for any hearing. Even if you get someone to sit in the corner doddling on a note pad and saying nothing it scares HR people shitless as they think they are under scruntiny.
You've got my contact details so ring or e-mail me if you like. This isn't my area of expertise but I can find someone for you need it.
i've got an internet policy book here at work that we are meant to sign and return
if i havent signed it, have they got a leg to stand on if they say i'm abusing the net?
i got warned of my high internet usage in another company. they had printed records of how many sites, how many clicks i'd done on in the internet in a 4 hours slot, there were reams of paper!! I was quite impressed.
I said i was a fast typist, and great multitasker, and i move between internet, word, powerpoint and email at a lightning speed, hence the amount of clicks, and unless my work had suffered then what was the issue? as it hadn't, they just said it was a warning. a month later i got poached by another pr company and went to work with them and told them to stick their job and their reams of paper up their arris.
[cite]Posted By: suzisausage[/cite]i've got an internet policy book here at work that we are meant to sign and return
if i havent signed it, have they got a leg to stand on if they say i'm abusing the net?
.
Yes, they have as they have given it to you but I'd always tell a client to get you to sign to avoid the "I never knew, Gov" defence.
Industrial tribunals from my experience tend to look primarily at process, procedures and policies that have been properly put in place and managed in a proper and pro-active manner. If as you suggest they have 'Never been issued with an Internet policy (until this week) or a disciplinary policy (until this week). Never had a proper induction, never had an appraisal, never had any indication of poor performance,' then they might find themselves coming unstuck not just on internet policy but in other areas.
Have you ever been issued with a staff handbook detailing company policies or procedures supported by a statment of particulars of employment. These should detail grievance and disciplinary procedures within the organisation. As you say it is at this stage an investigation only at this stage (fact finding they call it!) before they can go to a disciplinary interview there has to be a suitable time gap.
If they have no policies or procedures put them to the test if you believe you have a strong case and put in a grievance.
Comments
Get a rep to support you at the hearing (you have the right under DTI guidelines see www.dti.gov.uk) and ask for a copy of the company internet user policy.
Also worth bigging up charity work for Demelza etc as the reason for the use of internet as "sacked for helping dieing kids" is not a good headline in the paper.
That will be £600 or a bottle of Belgium beer sometime in May.
Thanks for the dti link Henry as I've not tried that -mainly as my Interweb access has presently been removed at work.
I'm aware of most of the advice you've kindly provided me - so a half litre will have to do. The Demelza part could be useful as well - hadn't thought of that.
Never been issued with an Internet policy (until this week) or a disciplinary policy (until this week). Never had a proper induction, never had an appraisal, never had any indication of poor performance, never had notice that my IT use ws being monitored, am the only one being 'victimised' in this way, have proof of the CEO having private web pages being printed off for him and having his holidays and flights booked by his PA etc etc.
I think they're a bit pissed off that there were no 'dodgy' sites on the list - unless you count Palace's BBS.
Have another job interview on Saturday "Can you make it as early as possible as I have an appointment in the afternoon" lol.
Seriously considering consructive dismissal which is a big move for me at my age and in my position with the company. I know the money is crap this way, but it's the principal.
Some advice as to how to negotiate a way out with a compromise agreement with a sad entrenched CEO who still works with a 1950's attitude would be useful. And please don't suggest Dowie's brief!
It's an investigation at this stage rather than a disciplinary.
And not sure who would hire a 'management trainer' who can't post an internet link properly ;-)
If so does it mention non-business internet use?
a) how are you supposed to know what they deem excessive
and
b) they are leaving themselves wide open to major problems if they try to discipline staff for doing anything more dodgy than just "excessive use"
Yes Management and Business Coach not IT trainer. You can get any IT geek to show you how to put a link in (sorry all you IT geek) but can they explain transactional analysis so it makes sense? ;-0
If it is still an investigation then just keep on the "you never told me until this week, everyone does it including the CEO and you are not acting reasonably" as this is the test at a tribunial. Keep a record of all the dates, actions etc. Tell them you've taken advice from a CIPD member (me). The HR people will think I know what I'm talking about even if the rest of you know I don't. :-(
The no appraisal or warning is key as if this is part of their procedure and they have not followed it correctly they will be seen to be partially liable in court.
They have left themselves wide open by not issuing the policies and induction at the right time. If they were my client (maybe I should ring and offer my services) I'd say "draw a line in the sand now and make it clear to all staff that mis-use of the interweb thingy is a disciplinary offence but don't try to take Mr Addickted on as you will lose and it will cost you more than the few pence of the internet costs.
It's also worth getting a case to together as to your value to the organisation. Work done, money saved, targets met, happy customers (like they should have been talking about in your appraisal). Would strongly advise gettting a union or similar trained representative for any hearing. Even if you get someone to sit in the corner doddling on a note pad and saying nothing it scares HR people shitless as they think they are under scruntiny.
You've got my contact details so ring or e-mail me if you like. This isn't my area of expertise but I can find someone for you need it.
if i havent signed it, have they got a leg to stand on if they say i'm abusing the net?
i got warned of my high internet usage in another company. they had printed records of how many sites, how many clicks i'd done on in the internet in a 4 hours slot, there were reams of paper!! I was quite impressed.
I said i was a fast typist, and great multitasker, and i move between internet, word, powerpoint and email at a lightning speed, hence the amount of clicks, and unless my work had suffered then what was the issue? as it hadn't, they just said it was a warning. a month later i got poached by another pr company and went to work with them and told them to stick their job and their reams of paper up their arris.
Yes, they have as they have given it to you but I'd always tell a client to get you to sign to avoid the "I never knew, Gov" defence.
We do this in our policy by stating that we do random monitoring although this applies largely to email only which is easier to randomly monitor.
Have you ever been issued with a staff handbook detailing company policies or procedures supported by a statment of particulars of employment. These should detail grievance and disciplinary procedures within the organisation. As you say it is at this stage an investigation only at this stage (fact finding they call it!) before they can go to a disciplinary interview there has to be a suitable time gap.
If they have no policies or procedures put them to the test if you believe you have a strong case and put in a grievance.
Good luck N and Nill illigitimi carborundum!