It's all very well having all this 'fly by wire' technology but the prog. showed they still need essential and basic flying skills in the event of a worst case scenario occuring, such as in this case. Mind you sometimes no amount of training can help: on a recent 'Air Crash Investigation' they showed what happened when some hi-jackers didn't believe the pilot when he said there wasn't enough fuel on board to get them from Africa to Australia. They drowned along with a number of passengers.
The onboard computor told them 50 times there was an issue then shut down (gave up) sounds like it works here takes about that many emailetc to get through.
There were faults on the plane and faults from the pilots. It was one of those rare perfect storms which won't happen again as the electronics and sensors have been improved and pilots are being better trained about this scenario now people are aware of it. The amazing truth about this disaster is that if the pilots didn't do anything - everything would have been fine. To be honest - The fly by wire technology makes the planes safer and they can pretty much fly themselves.
You can't begin to imagine the shear terror that must have gone through the minds of the pilots when that second altitude alarm started beepin'....the one that means you're too close to the water! Now thats real life horror...
It was on Channel 4 last night - its being repeated on 4seven tonight at 9 i think. I've got an 11 hour flight on Thursday night - should i watch it ???!!!!
Have read quite a lot about the whole investigation (the issues with the storm, long search for the black boxes etc) as my wife flew the same route from Brazil to Paris the following day and so brought home the 'there but for the grace' etc.
As Muttley said, it seemed a combination of factors all lead to what happened and so it should be very, very unlikely to be repeated.
I watched this, bit of a sicko for a plane disaster documentary (probably why I dont like flying much)
The young officer (2986 flying hours, statto) got plenty of stick and rightly so but if I was the captain I wouldnt have gone for a kip when he did, not as if everything was going swimmingly up top.
Fundamentally pilot error as the British commentator said had they kept flying at the same level they would have ridden through it.
He was actually asked about the 447 crash and said the pilots made mistakes based on false information and bad training... and I guess he would know how hard getting some of those calls correct can be!
I just watched it on 4 on demand... seems like a combination of weird factors, compounded by pilot error. I have a 9 hour flight on Sunday... can't wait!
Pilots are generally pretty mental, I read an interview with a former commercial pilot who answered the question "what would you say to some one who's terrified of flying?" with "I'd take them up with me in the cockpit and let them fly the plane around by themselves for a bit" instead of saying something like "its still very very safe way to travel etc etc". That's like saying to alleviate someone's fear of bungee jumping is to take them bungee jumping. Mental.
The young officer (2986 flying hours, statto) got plenty of stick and rightly so but if I was the captain I wouldnt have gone for a kip when he did, not as if everything was going swimmingly up top.
Why was he even going for a kip anyway? A flight from Rio to France is about 10 hours. If you did a 10 hour shift at work, you wouldn't need a sleep half way through. By all means have a break, stretch your legs, watch a bit of tv, listen to music etc but going for a sleep when the plane was in trouble was ridiculous.
The young officer (2986 flying hours, statto) got plenty of stick and rightly so but if I was the captain I wouldnt have gone for a kip when he did, not as if everything was going swimmingly up top.
Why was he even going for a kip anyway? A flight from Rio to France is about 10 hours. If you did a 10 hour shift at work, you wouldn't need a sleep half way through. By all means have a break, stretch your legs, watch a bit of tv, listen to music etc but going for a sleep when the plane was in trouble was ridiculous.
In fairness it was probably much longer than 10 hours, I would imagine the captain would have to be on duty long before the plane actually takes off. The timing was still a little off though!
This one was really similar to Flight 301 in the 90s, where a cleaner taped over the sensors and it snowballed from there.
Really interesting chapter on plane safety in Malcolm Gladwell's Outliers. About how majority of accidents involve seven consecutive human errors, and the measures taken to combat stuff like that. Korean air had a terrible record because of the relationships between crew members!
There have been various problems since the early 90s with Aerobus 'fly by wire' systems. I suspect many have been hushed up or pushed to page 99 to avoid both panic and financial disaster. Anyway, what good is a computer system which when you need it most goes into an electronic funk. The point made was that modern pilots are about as useful in an emergency as would be an ASDA check out girl .. this was an excellent progamme, more dramatic than most 'TV dramas'
Was facinating stuff. You just prey your never unlucky enough. Can't imagine the terror that the passengers and probably more so the pilots went through in those last few mins.
I cant believe that the pilot went on a break when he did....right boy's fly straight towards the storm and the least experienced of you is in charge. If we start to fall out of the sky, wake me up but it will take me over a minute to travel a few yards across the cockpit.
The youngest co-pilot appeared to be at fault but why didn't the pilot who was sitting in the middle and slightly back not notice that the co-pilot was pulling back on the stick (not sure of the correct terminology)
This one was really similar to Flight 301 in the 90s, where a cleaner taped over the sensors and it snowballed from there.
Really interesting chapter on plane safety in Malcolm Gladwell's Outliers. About how majority of accidents involve seven consecutive human errors, and the measures taken to combat stuff like that. Korean air had a terrible record because of the relationships between crew members!
Korean Air were shockingly bad for a while, the major problem was the Pilots were mainly straight out of the Korean Air Force and were totally inadequately trained.
Korea has very much a 'relationship' culture so because the top brass at Korean Air were all ex Air Force they were bringing in Air Force alumni on cushy Pilot jobs and not making sure they were properly trained.
After all, flying a fighter jet and a 747 are not exactly the same thing!
Getting humans and computers working together in perfect harmony is something that we have yet to master unfortunately. Humans are by nature more lazy than computers and will happily let computers do everything whilst neglecting the basics of their own work. I worked in anaesthetics for many years and the amount of false signals on monitors and warning alarms can get overwhelming at times and can lead to bad/wrong decision making. In such situations, sometimes where it was not possible to ascertain the problem quickly. the best solution was to go back to basics, check the patients pulse, chest movements, colour of their lips, BP, etc, switch everything off, then gradually turn monitors back on, one by one until you find the problem. Could have been a blocked line, faulty electrode, badly calibrated machine a whole host of things, but nothing wrong with the patient. Never get over reliant on technology!
Planes are the safest they have ever been and computers contribute to this. The flight crew were primarily to blame- firstly they could have done what most other crews do and fly around the storm - Then the extreme weather in the storm caused the air speed indicators not to function (ice) but the plane was flying on a level path but crew acted wrongly , then to compound the error - junior officer was pushing plane up to an unsafe altitude and was heading for a stall - should have known this and told his captain what he was doing - when he finally did it was too late.
This one was really similar to Flight 301 in the 90s, where a cleaner taped over the sensors and it snowballed from there.
Really interesting chapter on plane safety in Malcolm Gladwell's Outliers. About how majority of accidents involve seven consecutive human errors, and the measures taken to combat stuff like that. Korean air had a terrible record because of the relationships between crew members!
Korean Air were shockingly bad for a while, the major problem was the Pilots were mainly straight out of the Korean Air Force and were totally inadequately trained.
Korea has very much a 'relationship' culture so because the top brass at Korean Air were all ex Air Force they were bringing in Air Force alumni on cushy Pilot jobs and not making sure they were properly trained.
After all, flying a fighter jet and a 747 are not exactly the same thing!
I hear a lot of commercial pilots are against pilots coming from the air force, since the air force are taught how to take off/land under any circumstances. Coming in to an airport with tough conditions, a pilot with an exclusively commercial flying experience would say "I'm not landing in these conditions" while an ex air force pilot would say "I'll give it a go". Which one would you prefer as a passenger?
Comments
I've got an 11 hour flight on Thursday night - should i watch it ???!!!!
Have read quite a lot about the whole investigation (the issues with the storm, long search for the black boxes etc) as my wife flew the same route from Brazil to Paris the following day and so brought home the 'there but for the grace' etc.
As Muttley said, it seemed a combination of factors all lead to what happened and so it should be very, very unlikely to be repeated.
The young officer (2986 flying hours, statto) got plenty of stick and rightly so but if I was the captain I wouldnt have gone for a kip when he did, not as if everything was going swimmingly up top.
Fundamentally pilot error as the British commentator said had they kept flying at the same level they would have ridden through it.
Why was he even going for a kip anyway? A flight from Rio to France is about 10 hours. If you did a 10 hour shift at work, you wouldn't need a sleep half way through. By all means have a break, stretch your legs, watch a bit of tv, listen to music etc but going for a sleep when the plane was in trouble was ridiculous.
Really interesting chapter on plane safety in Malcolm Gladwell's Outliers. About how majority of accidents involve seven consecutive human errors, and the measures taken to combat stuff like that. Korean air had a terrible record because of the relationships between crew members!
You just prey your never unlucky enough. Can't imagine the terror that the passengers and probably more so the pilots went through in those last few mins.
The youngest co-pilot appeared to be at fault but why didn't the pilot who was sitting in the middle and slightly back not notice that the co-pilot was pulling back on the stick (not sure of the correct terminology)
Korea has very much a 'relationship' culture so because the top brass at Korean Air were all ex Air Force they were bringing in Air Force alumni on cushy Pilot jobs and not making sure they were properly trained.
After all, flying a fighter jet and a 747 are not exactly the same thing!