Attention: Please take a moment to consider our terms and conditions before posting.

USA Politics or Chinese ?

This has been a week when we have seen both up close. It occurred to me that the American way involves two enormously wealthy, and well connected people fighting it out. 99% of the population have no chance whatsoever of being President even though there must be literally thousands of people better suited to carry out the task. In China it appears that they select around ten people with a leader to govern for ten years. I am not knowledgable on the subject, but I can't help thinking that I prefer the Chinese way.

Comments

  • Er, as much as I admire the Chinese in many ways I would not really fancy opposing the government on any substantive issue, they don't really take too kindly to dissenters.

    Huge corruption at provincial level too, the American system is far from perfect and there is pork all over the place but still preferable to living under an authoritarian regime like the Chinese.

    Important to remember that China is not really a communist country at all, they simply have an authoritarian government.
  • Hi OA, I take your point and agree with it. Reason being that being offered the chance to live in either Country I'm sure that a massive majority would vote for the USA. What I am questioning is which way is the best way to achieve good government. In my simple mind I have always thought that the best person to lead a Country is a Benevolent Autocrat, the problem being that most people put in that position lose the plot, and become something different.
  • Granpa said:

    Hi OA, being offered the chance to live in either Country I'm sure that a massive majority would vote for the USA.

    Do you think that would apply to the old and the sick?

  • Good point

    But, fair play, facilities for the disabled are faaaar better in usa /n america /west
  • The Chinese generally work to connected 5 year plans and can engage in strategic long term planning due to not having to be concerned about short term pandering to electorates
  • Granpa said:

    Hi OA, I take your point and agree with it. Reason being that being offered the chance to live in either Country I'm sure that a massive majority would vote for the USA. What I am questioning is which way is the best way to achieve good government. In my simple mind I have always thought that the best person to lead a Country is a Benevolent Autocrat, the problem being that most people put in that position lose the plot, and become something different.

    Autocratic power corrupts people. It isn't anyone's fault, it's just human nature to want to keep total power by any means necessary when you get it.
  • Granpa said:

    Hi OA, I take your point and agree with it. Reason being that being offered the chance to live in either Country I'm sure that a massive majority would vote for the USA. What I am questioning is which way is the best way to achieve good government. In my simple mind I have always thought that the best person to lead a Country is a Benevolent Autocrat, the problem being that most people put in that position lose the plot, and become something different.

    Autocratic power corrupts people. It isn't anyone's fault, it's just human nature to want to keep total power by any means necessary when you get it.
    Very true, look at Mugabe as a prime example, how long before Zuma follows the same path in SA?
  • as Winnie said (reportedly): 'democracy is the worst form of government .. except for all the other forms of government'
  • Now that we have an American president in their second and last term, without an electorate to charm, will we now see their 'feet of clay'?
    Second term USA presidents are often susceptible to poor decisions and behaviour.
  • Democracy versus a dictatorship is effectively what you're asking isn't it?
  • Sponsored links:


  • A democracy should be better than a dictatorship because a democracy is, in principle at least, accountable to the populace so they should act in the best interests of the people, whatever they are. You don't get that with a dictatorship because they get corrupted. Just a shame that the people putting htemselves up for election are a bunch of numptys.
  • Granpa said:

    Hi OA, I take your point and agree with it. Reason being that being offered the chance to live in either Country I'm sure that a massive majority would vote for the USA. What I am questioning is which way is the best way to achieve good government. In my simple mind I have always thought that the best person to lead a Country is a Benevolent Autocrat, the problem being that most people put in that position lose the plot, and become something different.

    Autocratic power corrupts people. It isn't anyone's fault, it's just human nature to want to keep total power by any means necessary when you get it.
    Disagree. It's not more human nature to be corrupt anymore than it is to be an arsehole in any other way in any other walk of life just because the opportunity to be one exists.

    Down to individual choice. Mugabe and the like are utter c***s because they choose to be or because of the people they are as individuals.
  • When I saw the thread title I thought it was a surreal choice between current affairs and take away food...
  • edited November 2012
    I know where I'd rather live.

    Oh wait, I live here already.

    For all it's problems China really is an amazing country that is changing at an insane rate.

    USA, land of the free, don't make me laugh, atleast China are honest about what it is. You only need to speak to locals to realise how much things are changing here and how much more 'freedom' they are getting.

    Yes, of course, China has its problems, corruption and - abuse of - guanxi (connections) are epidemic but I think it's safe to say most people are happier than 10 years ago.

    The government know they can't rule like they have in the past, the people just won't stand for it. This is mainly due to the internet, we have the 'Great Firewall of China' but most people have VPN's. Of course some stuff still gets edited, or removed from sites like RenRen (China's facebook) but that often leads to people making an even bigger deal of it. The government knows this and it adapting.

    Er, as much as I admire the Chinese in many ways I would not really fancy opposing the government on any substantive issue, they don't really take too kindly to dissenters.

    I don't know if you read anything written by common Chinese, such as SinaWeibo or QQ blogs but many, many people make very critical comments about the government everyday. If you want a peak at some of the stuff Chinese people say head over to www.chinasmack.com - it translates a lot of stuff into English for those that don't read the lingo.
  • I do like the idea of a longer term, 7-8 years possibly. The longer term focus that would hopefully encourage would benefit
  • edited November 2012
    I suppose there are different interpretations about what is democracy, and what is democratic. ferinstance in (democratic?) France the president is elected for seven years, but in the USA it is for four...the Americans may declare that France isn't that democratic. Likewise the Chinese may argue that they are indeed democratic, because you can vote for the (communist party) official you want at whatever level, as opposed to the (communist party) official you don't want.
  • seth plum said:

    I suppose there are different interpretations about what is democracy, and what is democratic. ferinstance in (democratic?) France the president is elected for seven years, but in the USA it is for four...the Americans may declare that France isn't that democratic. Likewise the Chinese may argue that they are indeed democratic, because you can vote for the (communist party) official you want at whatever level, as opposed to the (communist party) official you don't want.

    This had been reduced to 5 years, and like the USA, the president can serve only two consecutive terms.
  • Granpa said:

    Hi OA, I take your point and agree with it. Reason being that being offered the chance to live in either Country I'm sure that a massive majority would vote for the USA. What I am questioning is which way is the best way to achieve good government. In my simple mind I have always thought that the best person to lead a Country is a Benevolent Autocrat, the problem being that most people put in that position lose the plot, and become something different.

    Autocratic power corrupts people. It isn't anyone's fault, it's just human nature to want to keep total power by any means necessary when you get it.
    Disagree. It's not more human nature to be corrupt anymore than it is to be an arsehole in any other way in any other walk of life just because the opportunity to be one exists.

    Down to individual choice. Mugabe and the like are utter c***s because they choose to be or because of the people they are as individuals.
    So if you were given autocratic power you would not do some pretty inhumane or dodgt stuff? You don't have any one to be accountable for, then after a while you start to think "maybe my power is slipping, and if i lose power, i'll be held accountable for all these things i've done".

    Give me one example where an autocrat hasn't had people murdered etc. There isn't one in history.
  • Optimus Prime
  • Sponsored links:


  • Alan Sugar.

    he isnt an autocrat
  • Im thinking of autobot, sorry
  • In my opinion Seth, autocrats do become c##ts who will try to cling to power regardless. However it is the fact that they are c##ts that gets them to a position of power in the first place.
  • seth plum said:

    Likewise the Chinese may argue that they are indeed democratic, because you can vote for the (communist party) official you want at whatever level, as opposed to the (communist party) official you don't want.

    No you can't. There are no elections above local (i.e. village) level. Those voted in choose the next level up and so on.
  • There you go, village level. The Chinese would argue that they have a (pathetic I know) level of democracy.
  • I know where I'd rather live.

    Oh wait, I live here already.

    For all it's problems China really is an amazing country that is changing at an insane rate.

    USA, land of the free, don't make me laugh, atleast China are honest about what it is. You only need to speak to locals to realise how much things are changing here and how much more 'freedom' they are getting.

    Yes, of course, China has its problems, corruption and - abuse of - guanxi (connections) are epidemic but I think it's safe to say most people are happier than 10 years ago.

    The government know they can't rule like they have in the past, the people just won't stand for it. This is mainly due to the internet, we have the 'Great Firewall of China' but most people have VPN's. Of course some stuff still gets edited, or removed from sites like RenRen (China's facebook) but that often leads to people making an even bigger deal of it. The government knows this and it adapting.


    Er, as much as I admire the Chinese in many ways I would not really fancy opposing the government on any substantive issue, they don't really take too kindly to dissenters.

    I don't know if you read anything written by common Chinese, such as SinaWeibo or QQ blogs but many, many people make very critical comments about the government everyday. If you want a peak at some of the stuff Chinese people say head over to www.chinasmack.com - it translates a lot of stuff into English for those that don't read the lingo.
    Yes, you are right there is a level of online dissent that is allowed - it is very closely monitored though and kept 'within bounds' but this is not really a serious threat to the government per se.

    Try pulling some Tea Party style antics in China, try some Poll Tax style protests or Countryside Alliance or even wide-scale trade union activity and see what happens, the reaction would make the Met Police look like a bunch of ballet teachers.

    How China gradually opens up to more protest and allows more significant dissent will be critical.
  • They are looking at Hong Kong and Taiwan as examples of how protest can exist in a Chinese context
  • They are looking at Hong Kong and Taiwan as examples of how protest can exist in a Chinese context

    The biggest factor in favor of China as an operational entity is simple, they are able to get things done - and get them done quickly.

    The infrastructure revolution in China these last 20 years has been unbelievable, nothing like it has happened before in human history.

    However, this has only been possible because the government drives it and does not have to worry about re-election and doesn't have to worry about citizen protests or legal challenges - just look at the Three Gorges Damn project.

    If you want to see the reverse of this look at India, they cannot get anything done on a national scale because of petty local politics and constant legal challenges.
  • Good points again
Sign In or Register to comment.

Roland Out Forever!