Attention: Please take a moment to consider our terms and conditions before posting.

1% Rise in benefits

1235789

Comments

  • Standing behind a geezer in Morrisons, Gravesend a couple of years back who was pleading with the cashier to let him buy booze with some sort of voucher, after about 5 mins arguing, he pulled out a fat wedge of dough and paid with that!
  • Blaming the Tories for this mess is very short sighted imo,and I'm not one.
    Tony Blair did as much as anyone to turn this country into the overcrowded,under equipped and potless state it finds itself in today.

    This!
  • And i tell you what i get more upset about greedy rich bastards dodging tax and treating people like shit than i do some lazy git getting a few hundred quid.
    Exactly this.
  • of the 70% affected that are in employment how many are working the minimum hours allowed so that their benefits are not affected and continue to get council tax, rent and heating paid

    sorry but there are those within the 70% still playing the system and that needs to stop

    it should not be an affordable option to not work
  • Rob62 said:

    And i tell you what i get more upset about greedy rich bastards dodging tax and treating people like shit than i do some lazy git getting a few hundred quid.
    Exactly this.

    Maybe the rich bastard is pig sick of paying so much tax so the lazy git can get his few hundred quid for doing sfa!
  • For every greedy rich bastard dodging tax there are a hundred others paying their 50%

    Just the same as every scrounging bastard living off benefits there are 100 others who want to get work and pay taxes

    Too many people believe every word of the daily mail/sun/mirror/guardian

    Delete as appropriate
  • At a high level it seems pretty sensible. Most working people aren't getting pay rises. If they direct the spend towards schemes to provide child care and other things to help low paid people get back into work, then it's a good thing.

    People like the idea of some mythical fat cats paying more and receiving less but also get worked up when it is them. See the fuss made by some folk on £60k plus who are losing child benefit. As a nation we have a massive deficit and have to do something to turn it around. That effort is not always going to be something that we can palm off on somebody else. Maybe it's a stereotype, but people on benefits with smartphones, nice motors and Sky subs might need to do without something or other.
  • BIG_ROB said:

    Rob62 said:

    And i tell you what i get more upset about greedy rich bastards dodging tax and treating people like shit than i do some lazy git getting a few hundred quid.
    Exactly this.
    Maybe the rich bastard is pig sick of paying so much tax so the lazy git can get his few hundred quid for doing sfa!

    But why does it make people so bitter? I don't get it.

    I gaurantee there is much much more being lost through tax avoidance than dole sponging - why are we all so upset about Jeremy Kyles trackie wearing idiots?

    What do you suggest we do with people that cant find work? i.e the necesary unemployed to keep everyone else full of themselves and inflation down?

    Why isnt the rich bastard sick of paying tax to fund people to not pay it?

  • For every greedy rich bastard dodging tax there are a hundred others paying their 50%

    Just the same as every scrounging bastard living off benefits there are 100 others who want to get work and pay taxes

    Too many people believe every word of the daily mail/sun/mirror/guardian

    Delete as appropriate

    Agreed - i gave up reading daily papers years ago. Just read The Sunday Times for the Cutlure section mainly.

    I love watching facebook or here everytime The Mail or Sun decide to tell the plankton what todays outrage is. Then watch them moan - the latest Falklands one is a cracker - id love to work on the Sun as a pissed up puppet master and watch my work.

  • Rob62 said:

    And i tell you what i get more upset about greedy rich bastards dodging tax and treating people like shit than i do some lazy git getting a few hundred quid.
    Exactly this.

    As much as there are genuine people who are on benefits there are companies that operate in this country who pay little tax but for very legitimate reasons. Trouble is the cases that are raised by the media are the big ones it is easy to throw to the public hungry for blood. Much in the same way you would read in the Daily Mail about someone living very well off of benefits, I doubt that is the majority but it is what we hear about through the media.

    I don't disagree with what the gov't has done with regards to lowering the increase for benefits. But it has to be just part of the overall plan. They want to say we are all in this together. That couldn't be further from the truth. Realistically we are all going to look out for ourselves and what is best for us rather than the wider economy. Very much in the same way businesses will operate. They will have a greater duty to their shareholders than to the country as a whole. We could argue for hours if it is right or wrong (morally).

    Good debate here though guys let's keep it going. One request though? Can we stop with it is Labour's fault we are in this? True at the time their spending was a little out of control but few of us complained when times were good. An alternative way to view it is to think, would anything have been different had the Tories, Libs, UKIP, Greens or anyone else been in charge? This downturn affected every country in the world, why would it have been any different had Tony's lot not been in power?
  • Sponsored links:


  • edited January 2013
    colthe3rd said:

    Rob62 said:

    And i tell you what i get more upset about greedy rich bastards dodging tax and treating people like shit than i do some lazy git getting a few hundred quid.
    Exactly this.
    Can we stop with it is Labour's fault we are in this? True at the time their spending was a little out of control but few of us complained when times were good. An alternative way to view it is to think, would anything have been different had the Tories, Libs, UKIP, Greens or anyone else been in charge? This downturn affected every country in the world, why would it have been any different had Tony's lot not been in power?


    A very Blairite way of looking at things.No blame culture and all that.Well it did start on his watch unfortunately and he should be held to account just as I would have expected Bill Hague or I.D.S if they had got in and it had happened.
    Blair ,as well as Brown, invited all and sundry into this country for one purpose.Cheap labour.
    They made no plans whatsoever to improve local services,utilities and facilities to cater for the extra populus putting a strain on already stretched systems
    Also add the fact they shoe horned as many kids as they could into pointless university courses to keep the jobless figure down.
    The results of these 'initiatives' are starting to bear friut. To see some of them,try spending a bit of time in your local hospital.Or sit and watch your twenty something offspring try and get into employment and into a dwelling of their own.
  • colthe3rd said:

    Rob62 said:

    And i tell you what i get more upset about greedy rich bastards dodging tax and treating people like shit than i do some lazy git getting a few hundred quid.
    Exactly this.
    Can we stop with it is Labour's fault we are in this? True at the time their spending was a little out of control but few of us complained when times were good. An alternative way to view it is to think, would anything have been different had the Tories, Libs, UKIP, Greens or anyone else been in charge? This downturn affected every country in the world, why would it have been any different had Tony's lot not been in power?

    A very Blairite way of looking at things.No blame culture and all that.Well it did start on his watch unfortunately and he should be held to account just as I would have expected Bill Hague or I.D.S if they had got in and it had happened.
    Blair ,as well as Brown, invited all and sundry into this country for one purpose.Cheap labour.
    They made no plans whatsoever to improve local services,utilities and facilities to cater for the extra populus putting a strain on already stretched systems
    Also add the fact they shoe horned as many kids as they could into pointless university courses to keep the jobless figure down.
    The results of these 'initiatives' are starting to bear friut. To see some of them,try spending a bit of time in your local hospital.Or sit and watch your twenty something offspring try and get into employment and into a dwelling of their own.


    I have no political affiliation so definitely do not consider myself a Blairite. Cheap labour has been going on in this country for decades so I would not say that is a new Labour phenomenon.

    I think you are missing my point a bit though CB. I was in no way defending Labour or their policies. They are of course partly to blame for what happened. However, for some to say it is because of them, them alone and things would have been different under ... is an incredible naive narrow minded point of view.
  • Labour are to blame for the whole worlds economic fuckup if you believe some people.
  • edited January 2013

    Labour are to blame for the whole worlds economic fuckup if you believe some people.

    Of course they are not but at the same time they actively, irresponsibly and naively enabled, encouraged and facilitated it. In the same way I imagine that any of the parties in power at the time would have.

    All 3 main parties in the 21st century are essentially the same with their "Third way" politics, they just have different spin and appear in different clothing.

    In social class terms Blair, Miliband, Osborne Cameron and Clegg have about as much in common with the average British citizen as chalk does with cheese.

    And whilst they continue to divide and rule by having the public bickering about left and right and benefit scroungers and tax exiles and numbing ourselves with football or x factor they keep themselves in power and the rest of us pathetically zombified ad infitum.
  • colthe3rd said:

    colthe3rd said:

    Rob62 said:

    And i tell you what i get more upset about greedy rich bastards dodging tax and treating people like shit than i do some lazy git getting a few hundred quid.
    Exactly this.
    Can we stop with it is Labour's fault we are in this? True at the time their spending was a little out of control but few of us complained when times were good. An alternative way to view it is to think, would anything have been different had the Tories, Libs, UKIP, Greens or anyone else been in charge? This downturn affected every country in the world, why would it have been any different had Tony's lot not been in power?

    A very Blairite way of looking at things.No blame culture and all that.Well it did start on his watch unfortunately and he should be held to account just as I would have expected Bill Hague or I.D.S if they had got in and it had happened.
    Blair ,as well as Brown, invited all and sundry into this country for one purpose.Cheap labour.
    They made no plans whatsoever to improve local services,utilities and facilities to cater for the extra populus putting a strain on already stretched systems
    Also add the fact they shoe horned as many kids as they could into pointless university courses to keep the jobless figure down.
    The results of these 'initiatives' are starting to bear friut. To see some of them,try spending a bit of time in your local hospital.Or sit and watch your twenty something offspring try and get into employment and into a dwelling of their own.
    I have no political affiliation so definitely do not consider myself a Blairite. Cheap labour has been going on in this country for decades so I would not say that is a new Labour phenomenon.

    I think you are missing my point a bit though CB. I was in no way defending Labour or their policies. They are of course partly to blame for what happened. However, for some to say it is because of them, them alone and things would have been different under ... is an incredible naive narrow minded point of view.

    Not that it makes it right,but at least it was controlled cheap labour compared to what we have seen more recently.

    It probably would have happened under another government.And that's part of the problem.There seems to be no accountability for any political movement.They can do what they like because 'the other lot ' would've done exactly the same. There is not a shred of difference between any of the major political parties in this country and that makes me fearful.
    The reasons for it I don't know. Are they scared to do things radically different? Is it unworkable to do things radically differently?

    People fought hard to earn the right to vote in this country.It's just a pity that there is only one party to vote for.

    They do come in three different colours though!
  • colthe3rd said:

    colthe3rd said:

    Rob62 said:

    And i tell you what i get more upset about greedy rich bastards dodging tax and treating people like shit than i do some lazy git getting a few hundred quid.
    Exactly this.
    Can we stop with it is Labour's fault we are in this? True at the time their spending was a little out of control but few of us complained when times were good. An alternative way to view it is to think, would anything have been different had the Tories, Libs, UKIP, Greens or anyone else been in charge? This downturn affected every country in the world, why would it have been any different had Tony's lot not been in power?

    A very Blairite way of looking at things.No blame culture and all that.Well it did start on his watch unfortunately and he should be held to account just as I would have expected Bill Hague or I.D.S if they had got in and it had happened.
    Blair ,as well as Brown, invited all and sundry into this country for one purpose.Cheap labour.
    They made no plans whatsoever to improve local services,utilities and facilities to cater for the extra populus putting a strain on already stretched systems
    Also add the fact they shoe horned as many kids as they could into pointless university courses to keep the jobless figure down.
    The results of these 'initiatives' are starting to bear friut. To see some of them,try spending a bit of time in your local hospital.Or sit and watch your twenty something offspring try and get into employment and into a dwelling of their own.
    I have no political affiliation so definitely do not consider myself a Blairite. Cheap labour has been going on in this country for decades so I would not say that is a new Labour phenomenon.

    I think you are missing my point a bit though CB. I was in no way defending Labour or their policies. They are of course partly to blame for what happened. However, for some to say it is because of them, them alone and things would have been different under ... is an incredible naive narrow minded point of view.

    Not that it makes it right,but at least it was controlled cheap labour compared to what we have seen more recently.

    It probably would have happened under another government.And that's part of the problem.There seems to be no accountability for any political movement.They can do what they like because 'the other lot ' would've done exactly the same. There is not a shred of difference between any of the major political parties in this country and that makes me fearful.
    The reasons for it I don't know. Are they scared to do things radically different? Is it unworkable to do things radically differently?

    People fought hard to earn the right to vote in this country.It's just a pity that there is only one party to vote for.

    They do come in three different colours though!


    NEW WORLD ORDER mate.
  • Labour are to blame for the whole worlds economic fuckup if you believe some people.

    Of course they are not but at the same time they actively, irresponsibly and naively enabled, encouraged and facilitated it. In the same way I imagine that any of the parties in power at the time would have.

    All 3 main parties in the 21st century are essentially the same with their "Third way" politics, they just have different spin and appear in different clothing.

    In social class terms Blair, Miliband, Osborne Cameron and Clegg have about as much in common with the average British citizen as chalk does with cheese.

    And whilst they continue to divide and rule by having the public bickering about left and right and benefit scroungers and tax exiles and numbing ourselves with football or x factor they keep themselves in power and the rest of us pathetically zombified ad infitum.
    You get my vote.

  • Sponsored links:


  • colthe3rd said:

    colthe3rd said:

    Rob62 said:

    And i tell you what i get more upset about greedy rich bastards dodging tax and treating people like shit than i do some lazy git getting a few hundred quid.
    Exactly this.
    Can we stop with it is Labour's fault we are in this? True at the time their spending was a little out of control but few of us complained when times were good. An alternative way to view it is to think, would anything have been different had the Tories, Libs, UKIP, Greens or anyone else been in charge? This downturn affected every country in the world, why would it have been any different had Tony's lot not been in power?

    A very Blairite way of looking at things.No blame culture and all that.Well it did start on his watch unfortunately and he should be held to account just as I would have expected Bill Hague or I.D.S if they had got in and it had happened.
    Blair ,as well as Brown, invited all and sundry into this country for one purpose.Cheap labour.
    They made no plans whatsoever to improve local services,utilities and facilities to cater for the extra populus putting a strain on already stretched systems
    Also add the fact they shoe horned as many kids as they could into pointless university courses to keep the jobless figure down.
    The results of these 'initiatives' are starting to bear friut. To see some of them,try spending a bit of time in your local hospital.Or sit and watch your twenty something offspring try and get into employment and into a dwelling of their own.
    I have no political affiliation so definitely do not consider myself a Blairite. Cheap labour has been going on in this country for decades so I would not say that is a new Labour phenomenon.

    I think you are missing my point a bit though CB. I was in no way defending Labour or their policies. They are of course partly to blame for what happened. However, for some to say it is because of them, them alone and things would have been different under ... is an incredible naive narrow minded point of view.

    Not that it makes it right,but at least it was controlled cheap labour compared to what we have seen more recently.

    It probably would have happened under another government.And that's part of the problem.There seems to be no accountability for any political movement.They can do what they like because 'the other lot ' would've done exactly the same. There is not a shred of difference between any of the major political parties in this country and that makes me fearful.
    The reasons for it I don't know. Are they scared to do things radically different? Is it unworkable to do things radically differently?

    People fought hard to earn the right to vote in this country.It's just a pity that there is only one party to vote for.

    They do come in three different colours though!


    Good post. I agree there is no accountability, but I wouldn't stop at politics. We live in an age now where no one is willing to hold up their hands and say "I was wrong, I made a mistake" for some that is seen as a sign of weakness with people vehermently defending their corner even if they are clearly at fault. Personally I would find it very refreshing for a politician, CEO or even a sportsman to come out and just admit they were wrong.

    I saw a very good TED speech by Tory MP Rory Stewart. He made a similar comment about this and got a lot of respect from me. I just wish our society would start to do this.
  • And even less to say about the Lib Dems! Maybe they should be thinking about their position... whenever the next election is they will get hammered but do they really want to be part of this? Cuts to the poor, closing hospitals, and the forthcoming attack on the EU especially Bulgarians
    As Owen Jones says "Not since 1931 has a Government attempted to deliberately, consciously reduce the incomes of the poor." By the way is the guy who wrote "Chavs" if you want to get his full picture

    There are other ways to bring the books into balance ... simpler way reduce the benefits bill is to get some unemployed into work. Basically this governments efforts have stalled because without growth the numbers will not get better.

  • edited January 2013


    All 3 main parties in the 21st century are essentially the same with their "Third way" politics, they just have different spin and appear in different clothing.

    This.

    LabLibCon ....... they are all Self-serving.
    And it's us the voters who are Conned.


    And where is the voice of Opposition?
    The silence is deafening.
  • so the benefit system and public sector works now all have 1% pay rise freeze, I don't agree with this unfortunately we are stuck with it for the time being however, where are the freezes on the banks bonuses and their pay, the banks our taxes had to help bail, where are the regulations to stop them screwing up the economy again, how are they being punished for what happened?
    This government has completely let them off the hook and has decided to take it out on the workers and set us arguing against each other instead of standing up against the government and challenging them over their policies.

  • And whilst they continue to divide and rule by having the public bickering about left and right and benefit scroungers and tax exiles.....

    Sadly, this is the Government's strategy.

  • I think that, as usual, the politicians and the press between them (and to different ends) are clouding the real issue by focusing on the headline to win votes and readers respectively.

    Capping benefits increases at 1% is probably a good vote winner for the Tories - certainly among their core support - it also provides a 'sensationalised' headline for the newspapers (the Guardian can claim it's scandalously low and compare it to RPI and the Mail can look back a few years further and compare compound growth versus salaries - either way both publications and their readers can be suitably outraged so that everyone's a winner).

    Surely the real point is that benefits are a safety net and therefore it's not so much about the 1% increase as the level at which they're at currently and the rate at which cost of essentials is increasing.

    If current benefit levels mean that your average claimant is just about managing to cover the cost of the bare essentials, then in a situation where the price of those essentials is rising by considerably more than 1% per annum (and food, fuel and rent have all been doing exactly that) then the freeze risks throwing citizens of our country into genuine poverty and no amount of comparing the increase with wage rises can morally justify that.

    If, on the other hand, you can comfortably cover the essentials and have a wedge left over for lottery tickets, booze and fags as some tabloids would have us believe then the fact that they're only increasing at 1% is neither here nor there, maybe they should be going down 1%.

    I can't claim to have any knowledge of which end of the scale the average person claiming benefits is on, and I certainly don't buy into the hyperbole spouted by either the left or the right leaning newspapers. If I had to guess though I would think that it's somewhere between the two but considerably closer to the first scenario.

    Either way, the 1% rise isn't really the point, it's what the benefits can buy that's really the issue.
  • I'm not going to comment about the 1% increase as such but it has always struck me as odd that the CPI (or RPI?) was used as an index to increase benefit payments.
    It seems to me that these "basket of goods" measures are unlikely to represent the cost inflation that, for example, an unemployed person is going to have to contend with. So, a kid living at home with his/her parents probably isn't paying utility bills or buying a train season ticket. While someone with a family obviously has more outgoings to contend with. A method of tailoring payments (and I think benefits is a bad word to use as it sounds like some sort of entitlement/right) is already available through the tax system. My preferred option would be for payments to be a sort of reverse income tax rather than social security money. We could then make additional savings by doing away with large chunks of the DSS.
    In the main, there needs to be a carrot and stick approach which makes working an attractive option while at the same time providing a basic safety net for those who have fallen on hard times.
  • Fortune,

    Genuine question. In your real world analogy, is it right that those on benefits see annual increases when those in the working world don't ?

    I'm on a pay freeze, have not had a pay increase in four years, as are many many others. In that time every bill other than mortgage has gone through the roof.

    So should those on benefits see cost of living inflationary increases while many in the working world are having their cost of living reduced ?


    Clearly there are a lot of people caught in the poverty trap - and the reduction in benefits means that people at the lower end of society are going to have to make savings from somewhere but most likely will still go further into debt.

    There are no easy solutions here - but a rise in benefits in line with RPI (rather than CPI) would at least give a lot of people a better chance. The only winners from this are the likes of Wonga and other legal/illegal loan sharks, not to mention a rise in crime. Every action has a reaction...

    As for tax rises - this government cut the top rate of taxes last year. The wiser solution might have been as David Milliband suggested to limit tax relief on pensions to £26k a year. The tax relief on pensions costs the UK annually ca £33bn. Claw some of that back and there's no need to limit benefit increases to 1% PA.

  • I think that, as usual, the politicians and the press between them (and to different ends) are clouding the real issue by focusing on the headline to win votes and readers respectively.

    Capping benefits increases at 1% is probably a good vote winner for the Tories - certainly among their core support - it also provides a 'sensationalised' headline for the newspapers (the Guardian can claim it's scandalously low and compare it to RPI and the Mail can look back a few years further and compare compound growth versus salaries - either way both publications and their readers can be suitably outraged so that everyone's a winner).

    Surely the real point is that benefits are a safety net and therefore it's not so much about the 1% increase as the level at which they're at currently and the rate at which cost of essentials is increasing.

    If current benefit levels mean that your average claimant is just about managing to cover the cost of the bare essentials, then in a situation where the price of those essentials is rising by considerably more than 1% per annum (and food, fuel and rent have all been doing exactly that) then the freeze risks throwing citizens of our country into genuine poverty and no amount of comparing the increase with wage rises can morally justify that.

    If, on the other hand, you can comfortably cover the essentials and have a wedge left over for lottery tickets, booze and fags as some tabloids would have us believe then the fact that they're only increasing at 1% is neither here nor there, maybe they should be going down 1%.

    I can't claim to have any knowledge of which end of the scale the average person claiming benefits is on, and I certainly don't buy into the hyperbole spouted by either the left or the right leaning newspapers. If I had to guess though I would think that it's somewhere between the two but considerably closer to the first scenario.

    Either way, the 1% rise isn't really the point, it's what the benefits can buy that's really the issue.

    that's a brilliant post mate

Sign In or Register to comment.

Roland Out Forever!