serious question - do the employment contracts of say police and firemen permit them to do other paid work?
This was debated on the hard hitting Jeremy Vine show on BBC Radio2 just before Christmas. As far as the police are concerned they can have a second job as long as it doesn't compromise their posistion as a police officer and all such jobs have to be cleared by their respective Cheif Constable. They had a CC on from somewhere in the country and he said there were a lot of police doing 2nd jobs although many were not necessarily "normal" jobs. Maybe things like sports coaches for local councils ie in schools or community projects. I'm not sure what the Fire Service stance is.
I know people who have to do 2 or 3 jobs to make ends meet and historically this has been the case too (my father an example some 30 odd years ago)
If you can do it then do it - whether it's needs must or not it's good to be working and earning and providing for your family. On top of that if it means you are less of a burden on the state (in fact contributing more by paying more tax) then its all good.
If it's undeclared income then you are a turd and if you still feel the need for industrial action when your salary is greater than people in similar lines of work who are often doing longer hours then you should take a look at yourself in the mirror
I declare my 2nd income so therefore u neednt put me in the turd bracket and ive never felt the 'need' as you put it to take industrial action and have never wanted to but im in the union so had to. I see you didnt reply to my post on the helicopter crash thread,was it too balanced a reply for you? Christ almighty mate,so you dont like firemen,we get it no need for the veiled digs in your post.
Not at all Shine. If people have the time and energy to do 2 jobs good luck to them but I am curious how the unemployed see it.
But if I were unemployed I would be a bit miffed at those in well paid jobs doing another on the side.
Its best person for the job I guess and so it should be, just because somebody is unemployed shouldnt make them a priority for a job. Next would be hour and wage caps, I mean someone with 2 jobs may still be working less hours and earning less than somebody with 1.
Yes definately. How dare people with families to provide for consider taking on another job when there are plenty of people happy not to work and live off the state. Disgusting!
Sorry, I forgot everyone unemployed is a ponce.
That's EXACTLY what I said isn't it?
Really, some people!
Anyway I thought unemployment had been constantly falling over the last 12m or so?
pressure on employment offices from government. they bring in new laws to try and force people off job seekers. many get put on jobs but not ones that will make enough money for a living. (part time/under minimum wage.)
others get forced off whether they got a job or not because they haven’t jumped through all the hoops recently put up by the job centres.
others have lost their disability benefit. I know a man who runs a stroke club, he is now having to fight for the benefits of the people in his club. One of the members of his stroke club had some employment officials come over his house (not doctors) they went through tests to see if the man could work (put him on ordinary job seekers benefit) They asked him if he could lift his arm up, this man had pride even though he was in a wheel chair, he is no benefit cheat. So he struggled but got his arm up in the air just to show there was still life in him, he’s not beaten yet. Cos he was able to lift his arm up he can now be a shelf stacker.
What other people do is none of my business. If its a banker getting 250k bonus, a tube driver getting 40k+ or a fireman working on the side. They all do what they do to get by in their worlds. Hopefully the more people earn the more they spend and that money trickles down and around. I never worry about what others, outside my family, have or do. I have a brother-inlaw who is a fireman/plasterer, as far as I'm concerned he can push as much plaster up walls, in his spare time, as he wants. What ever he gets from the fire service and his part time job aint enough for me to get the old green eyes going. Shovelling up and bagging bodies dont pay enough for me to get envious.
To many employers being a fire fighter or police officer would be seen as a massive plus. CRB checked, work well under stress, fit, responsible etc. So compare that to someone who's out of work (perhaps through not fault of their own) and the 2nd job person looks the better bet.
People in 2 jobs are getting taxed more so I don't see why not. If its legal, then why not? If they're not declaring their income then they should (and will) get heavily fined.
You can't live in a police state if someone's work schedule allows them enough time to do a second job so be it, it's their free time and they are entitled to use it how they want. Where it goes wrong and I know in the case of a number of fireman the second job has either taken over their lives or worse they have got injured doing it and then expect The Brigade to stump up with diability retirement and that is not right.
Would Charlton let their players have a second job? They only train for a few hours a week. Plenty of time to flip some burgers at the golden arches. When I first started working their was a contractor who was constantly falling asleep at his desk. It turns out he had started a picture framing business. He didn't last the week. Firemen are well compensated to do this job. I would assume that they are expected to be fresh at all times in case the dreaded call comes. I'm sure a tired fireman could be more of a hindrance than a help.
Nobody should have to work in a 2nd job, least of all the emergancy services. I think alot of it is down to greed! I mean none of the emergancy service personel are on the minimum wage are they????
My old man was a fireman and he did gardening on the side. It was his way of coping with the horrors of his main employment and the fact it brought in a few extra quid was a bonus. I got my Mongoose bmx because of it!
My old man was a fireman and he did gardening on the side. It was his way of coping with the horrors of his main employment and the fact it brought in a few extra quid was a bonus. I got my Mongoose bmx because of it!
So you won't eat meat, but you'll happily ride around on a push bike made of poor little mongoose? Hypocrite or what!? Ffs
Nobody should have to work in a 2nd job, least of all the emergancy services. I think alot of it is down to greed! I mean none of the emergancy service personel are on the minimum wage are they????
That depends on how many hours the 1st job takes up I guess. Are they getting overtime ?
Methinks that in the current economic climate that fireman will soon be losing the kind of working patterns that allow them the time to do a second job.
Only a matter of time before we see a big reduction in service numbers to save money, Boris has already announced the closure of plenty of fire stations.
My old man was a fireman and he did gardening on the side. It was his way of coping with the horrors of his main employment and the fact it brought in a few extra quid was a bonus. I got my Mongoose bmx because of it!
So you won't eat meat, but you'll happily ride around on a push bike made of poor little mongoose? Hypocrite or what!? Ffs
Nobody should have to work in a 2nd job, least of all the emergancy services. I think alot of it is down to greed! I mean none of the emergancy service personel are on the minimum wage are they????
No mate,we're not on the minimum wage. Put it this way,most, if not nearly all emergency service workers dont do it for the money,i certainly dont and trust me,i would earn ALOT more money sitting behind a desk 5 days a week with every evening/ weekend/bank holiday/christmas off. Im not complaining about doing this,its my choice and i wouldnt do any other job for the world but so far a couple of posters on CL have generalised firefighters as being contemptible,strike hungry,disliked by other emergency services,tax dodging turds and now greedy. Im amazed at these experts on all things fire brigade. My motto is live and let live,if people want to do another job then why judge? I know people who work 5 days a week in an office then work friday and saturday nights in a bar,does that make them greedy? Everyones personal circumstances are different,I dont want to do another job,i dont do it for the fun of it believe me. I drive a 12 year old car so im hardly materialistic and im not greedy,its needs must.
Interested to know, to anyone with dislike of any of the emergency services..........I take it you'll be making your own arrangements rather than be using 999?
@Redvalleyeast - respect to you mate, I couldn't be a fireman in a million years. As said above my old man was in the job and some of the stories he tells would make your hair curl. On his first ever shout he had to retrieve the head of a poor car crash victim! Plus, we should never forget, on 9/11 it was firemen who were running UP the twin towers.
Nobody should have to work in a 2nd job, least of all the emergancy services. I think alot of it is down to greed! I mean none of the emergancy service personel are on the minimum wage are they????
No mate,we're not on the minimum wage. Put it this way,most, if not nearly all emergency service workers dont do it for the money,i certainly dont and trust me,i would earn ALOT more money sitting behind a desk 5 days a week with every evening/ weekend/bank holiday/christmas off. Im not complaining about doing this,its my choice and i wouldnt do any other job for the world but so far a couple of posters on CL have generalised firefighters as being contemptible,strike hungry,disliked by other emergency services,tax dodging turds and now greedy. Im amazed at these experts on all things fire brigade. My motto is live and let live,if people want to do another job then why judge? I know people who work 5 days a week in an office then work friday and saturday nights in a bar,does that make them greedy? Everyones personal circumstances are different,I dont want to do another job,i dont do it for the fun of it believe me. I drive a 12 year old car so im hardly materialistic and im not greedy,its needs must.
Why else have two jobs when one can do if it ain't down to wanting more money? Not just firefighters and coppers, but anyone! People are sitting at home wanting a job, but others are doing two. It don't make sense to me at all!
As someone on the inside of the LFB, how do you see things? Do you think there is going to be a squeeze on staffing levels and a change in shift patterns in order to get fewer people to cover the workload?
Would be very interested in your comments on this in view of the current station closures.
Nobody should have to work in a 2nd job, least of all the emergancy services. I think alot of it is down to greed! I mean none of the emergancy service personel are on the minimum wage are they????
No mate,we're not on the minimum wage. Put it this way,most, if not nearly all emergency service workers dont do it for the money,i certainly dont and trust me,i would earn ALOT more money sitting behind a desk 5 days a week with every evening/ weekend/bank holiday/christmas off. Im not complaining about doing this,its my choice and i wouldnt do any other job for the world but so far a couple of posters on CL have generalised firefighters as being contemptible,strike hungry,disliked by other emergency services,tax dodging turds and now greedy. Im amazed at these experts on all things fire brigade. My motto is live and let live,if people want to do another job then why judge? I know people who work 5 days a week in an office then work friday and saturday nights in a bar,does that make them greedy? Everyones personal circumstances are different,I dont want to do another job,i dont do it for the fun of it believe me. I drive a 12 year old car so im hardly materialistic and im not greedy,its needs must.
Why else have two jobs when one can do if it ain't down to wanting more money? Not just firefighters and coppers, but anyone! People are sitting at home wanting a job, but others are doing two. It don't make sense to me at all!
Want and need are two different things. If people are 'sitting at home wanting a job' then that could be where they are going wrong if that makes sense? Like i said,everyones personal circumstances are different. No one just rocked up to me and gave me another job,i went out and found one,i pay tax and nat insurance on it so it really shouldnt be of any concern to anyone and it doesnt make sense to me why i have to justify it.
I know people who have to do 2 or 3 jobs to make ends meet and historically this has been the case too (my father an example some 30 odd years ago)
If you can do it then do it - whether it's needs must or not it's good to be working and earning and providing for your family. On top of that if it means you are less of a burden on the state (in fact contributing more by paying more tax) then its all good.
If it's undeclared income then you are a turd and if you still feel the need for industrial action when your salary is greater than people in similar lines of work who are often doing longer hours then you should take a look at yourself in the mirror
I declare my 2nd income so therefore u neednt put me in the turd bracket and ive never felt the 'need' as you put it to take industrial action and have never wanted to but im in the union so had to. I see you didnt reply to my post on the helicopter crash thread,was it too balanced a reply for you? Christ almighty mate,so you dont like firemen,we get it no need for the veiled digs in your post.
What Station you at? I got out just after the strike in the 80s, still got some mates at Downham although they were/are on the list to go in the latest round of cuts.
I have often worked two jobs .. for the MONEY .. I now run 2 small businesses, to be honest I'd rather do something else, but what? .. What I like to do costs MONEY .. vicious circle (though I have managed to slow down lately)
As someone on the inside of the LFB, how do you see things? Do you think there is going to be a squeeze on staffing levels and a change in shift patterns in order to get fewer people to cover the workload?
Would be very interested in your comments on this in view of the current station closures.
Its difficult to say at the moment OA. If im totally honest im pretty sure any firefighter will say that we can cope with 12 fewer stations,as i think we can. Im also pretty sure that although the Fire Brigade Union is spouting off at the moment,unless you are posted at one of the stations due to close then they are going to be hard pushed to get any backing for industrial action,i for one will not vote yes and no one at my station to my knowledge would either. Every public service is being cut and we are no different,nor should we be. Theres been much said about 520 job 'losses'. Thats rubbish too,we stopped recruiting in 2011,thats 300 recruits a year which we dont have now, plus there are people retiring every week,thats where the 520 figure comes from. We have changed our shift patterns fairly recently so i wouldnt think management have any plans to do so again so soon.
My late father was in the London Fire Brigade, joining as a fireman and eventually rising to a very senior position. He was honoured to be awarded the Queen's Fire Service Medal for distinguished service.
He never said too much about his experiences on operations, despite my prompting, but he was heavily involved with Dudgeons Wharf and the Moorgate Tube Crash to name just two amongst many other major incidents he either attended or investigated between the mid fifties and early eighties.
Suffice to say that what he saw was traumatic in the extreme and he spent much of his career in Fire Prevention upsetting politicians, civil servants and architects to the extent that, despite still being very senior when he retired, he was blocked from rising further. That's not my opinion but that of his colleagues one of whom spoke at his funeral and stated that it was impossible to count the number of lives saved as a result of fire prevention measures put in place as a result of his expertise and sheer determination.
I've spoken about my father because, fairly obviously, I know something about him. However I lived in a fire station for a number of years as a child and I saw the working day. Regular hook ladder drills and then operations, sometimes false alarms, sometimes 24 hours or more of intense firefighting. All the people I knew were totally dedicated and the general attitude was that it was a way of life rather than a job.
Swisdom you are of course entitled to your opinion but I am also entitled, from a position of some knowledge, to tell you that my view is that you are very, very wrong.
Please forgive the self-indugence of mentioning my family but I feel it essential to demonstrate that I am speaking from a position of some knowledge.
I didn't want to respond on the Vauxhall thread as I felt it disrespectful to the victims and topic.
I hope you don't mind me hi- jacking your thread Baldybonce but I do think it is partially relevant as implicitly the commitment of firemen ( or firefighters as they are now known) has been questioned.
Comments
With no pay rise in the past few years and inflation constantly eating into their take home pay, they do what they consider best for their family.
It has ever been thus.
This is my view. But if I were unemployed I would be a bit miffed at those in well paid jobs doing another on the side.
Its best person for the job I guess and so it should be, just because somebody is unemployed shouldnt make them a priority for a job. Next would be hour and wage caps, I mean someone with 2 jobs may still be working less hours and earning less than somebody with 1.
others get forced off whether they got a job or not because they haven’t jumped through all the hoops recently put up by the job centres.
others have lost their disability benefit. I know a man who runs a stroke club, he is now having to fight for the benefits of the people in his club. One of the members of his stroke club had some employment officials come over his house (not doctors) they went through tests to see if the man could work (put him on ordinary job seekers benefit) They asked him if he could lift his arm up, this man had pride even though he was in a wheel chair, he is no benefit cheat. So he struggled but got his arm up in the air just to show there was still life in him, he’s not beaten yet. Cos he was able to lift his arm up he can now be a shelf stacker.
If its a banker getting 250k bonus, a tube driver getting 40k+ or a fireman working on the side. They all do what they do to get by in their worlds.
Hopefully the more people earn the more they spend and that money trickles down and around.
I never worry about what others, outside my family, have or do.
I have a brother-inlaw who is a fireman/plasterer, as far as I'm concerned he can push as much plaster up walls, in his spare time, as he wants. What ever he gets from the fire service and his part time job aint enough for me to get the old green eyes going.
Shovelling up and bagging bodies dont pay enough for me to get envious.
As an employer I have interviewed people that were unemployable.
but that's not for here.
When I first started working their was a contractor who was constantly falling asleep at his desk. It turns out he had started a picture framing business. He didn't last the week.
Firemen are well compensated to do this job. I would assume that they are expected to be fresh at all times in case the dreaded call comes. I'm sure a tired fireman could be more of a hindrance than a help.
Only a matter of time before we see a big reduction in service numbers to save money, Boris has already announced the closure of plenty of fire stations.
My main one which pays the bills and the second one which I do for free and is far more rewarding.
Plus, we should never forget, on 9/11 it was firemen who were running UP the twin towers.
As someone on the inside of the LFB, how do you see things? Do you think there is going to be a squeeze on staffing levels and a change in shift patterns in order to get fewer people to cover the workload?
Would be very interested in your comments on this in view of the current station closures.
I got out just after the strike in the 80s, still got some mates at Downham although they were/are on the list to go in the latest round of cuts.
He never said too much about his experiences on operations, despite my prompting, but he was heavily involved with Dudgeons Wharf and the Moorgate Tube Crash to name just two amongst many other major incidents he either attended or investigated between the mid fifties and early eighties.
Suffice to say that what he saw was traumatic in the extreme and he spent much of his career in Fire Prevention upsetting politicians, civil servants and architects to the extent that, despite still being very senior when he retired, he was blocked from rising further. That's not my opinion but that of his colleagues one of whom spoke at his funeral and stated that it was impossible to count the number of lives saved as a result of fire prevention measures put in place as a result of his expertise and sheer determination.
I've spoken about my father because, fairly obviously, I know something about him. However I lived in a fire station for a number of years as a child and I saw the working day. Regular hook ladder drills and then operations, sometimes false alarms, sometimes 24 hours or more of intense firefighting. All the people I knew were totally dedicated and the general attitude was that it was a way of life rather than a job.
Swisdom you are of course entitled to your opinion but I am also entitled, from a position of some knowledge, to tell you that my view is that you are very, very wrong.
Please forgive the self-indugence of mentioning my family but I feel it essential to demonstrate that I am speaking from a position of some knowledge.
I didn't want to respond on the Vauxhall thread as I felt it disrespectful to the victims and topic.
I hope you don't mind me hi- jacking your thread Baldybonce but I do think it is partially relevant as implicitly the commitment of firemen ( or firefighters as they are now known) has been questioned.