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End of Britain

http://www.moneyweek.com/endofbritain

This is the most alarming statement of the mess Gordon Brown has left this country in. It started with the Labour government in the 70s, the Thatcher government did little to stop it and the Blair/Brown government deliberately ensured that it is now accelerating out of control and it seems our goverment is letting it carry on as we are still borrowing then we are recieving.
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Comments

  • Got about five paragraphs in. Blah blah blah. No one listened when we told them the economy went in cycles. Oh - wait, actually, every single economist since the dawn of economics has said exactly the same thing, you say? Bad times inevitably follow good ones? Better make this a bit more controversial then by blaming not one of, but both major political parties. What's that? Everyone else has been saying the same thing for decades? Damn. OK then - let's make the focus of the article all about debt, knowing full well that everyone who has even a GCSE-level grounding in economics is aware that the model of capitalism that is in effect positively guarantees foisting debt burden on future generations.

    Nothing in any of that is 'news'. Either there's going to be a massive correction at some point in the future (read - global conflict killing about 80% of the world's population) or there isn't, and the turds at the top will continue to ensure they make it cosy for themselves whilst fucking over everyone else. Either way - nothing you, I, or anyone else can do about it. Stop worrying and get on with your lives, people.
  • We're doomed. Doomed I tell you.
  • Glad you nipped this in the bud early Leroy. Nothing a big ol war wouldn't sort out.
  • That's a hell of a lot of words to try and sell a £175 magazine subscription
  • Went back and skimmed the rest of the article. About sixty different instances of variations on 'let us help you make the right decisions about your money'. Followed eventually, after thirty odd paragraphs of no real substance, telling you that one bunch of conmen (the government) want to put their hand in your pocket and relieve you of your hard-earned, by another paragraph telling you that another bunch of conmen (the not remotely altruistic people who produce MoneyWeek) want to put their hand in your pocket and relieve you of your hard-earned.

    See through the bullshit, people.
  • edited January 2013

    Went back and skimmed the rest of the article. About sixty different instances of variations on 'let us help you make the right decisions about your money'. Followed eventually, after thirty odd paragraphs of no real substance, telling you that one bunch of conmen (the government) want to put their hand in your pocket and relieve you of your hard-earned, by another paragraph telling you that another bunch of conmen (the not remotely altruistic people who produce MoneyWeek) want to put their hand in your pocket and relieve you of your hard-earned.

    See through the bullshit, people.

    Really? Our public finances are pretty bad at the moment and you say this article is bullshit?

    Let's look at the goverment's real achievements to warrant this debt.

    1.Gordon Brown selling tonnes of medric gold at half the price of what it is today, he also stated how much he was going to sell and the date, unbelievable.

    2. George Osbourne's 10 billion contribution to the IMF, two weeks later we enter recession.

    3. The continuous foreign aid contributions to Countries like India whose economy is growing and no longer requires the aid. Argentina is another one, considering we are falling out with them over the Falklands.

    4. CO2 mission targets that are currently driving manufactured industry jobs out of Britain and straight accross to the Far East. On average from 1997 100,000 industries have been lost every year.

    5. The regulated burden on small and medium sized businesses that is preventing them from growing and employing more staff.

    The frontbenchers (College kids) have no experience with the real world, none of them have run a business so how on earth do you expect the govement to run this Country properly when they are making stupid decisions like the listed above.

    What worries me further is that we are borrowing more money than we are recieving. If carry on like this, our national debt will increase by 30% over the next 4 years which leaves a massive debt for us to pay back. So anytime now we will go back in recession but you will hear the Labour party attacking the coalition when they had no leg to stand on in the first place, due to their ridiculous economic policies between 1997-2010.

    I have no hope with this goverment unless a real change happens and I don't mean voting Labour at the next election.
  • You misread the post. The 'bullshit' is that this mob are trying to sell you a subscription to their overpriced rag. Not the fact that the world's fucked (it is)
  • The britsih Government has always borrowed money since the national debit was invented by William the Orrnage in the 1690`s. Since then it has been growing. But the idea is that as the econom grows over time the government can cover the repayment cost, and of course the national as proportion of what we now call GDP declines because of economic growth and inflation. Similarly as a nation we have traded at a loss now for over 150 years, ie we have imported more in value than we export. But guess what we are still here.
  • it's only money !!
  • Read the Labour bashing intro and swerved the whole thing. Extraordinary that you can blame the left when the right are the champions of capitalism. Labour are just as bad now though.
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  • There is nothing easier to sell to the naive than a warning that people have been selling things to the naive. Hilarious. If they were really so sure about all those spikes and troughs they should have made enough cash not to have to scare the dim into buying their bumrag.
  • You're a bit late, they tried to panic me into paying their subscription well over a week ago. Salesmen using scare tactics on old (ish) people, there's novel. Don't they do TV programmes on this kind of rubbish?
  • Danger! Warning! Will Robinson. Scary advertising puff! Bet all those journalist stay in their offices and don't leave the country or don't follow their own advice!
  • Read the Labour bashing intro and swerved the whole thing. Extraordinary that you can blame the left when the right are the champions of capitalism. Labour are just as bad now though.

    As they were during the Blair/Brown years!
  • "No country in recorded history", blah, blah, blah. Hang on a minute: there's Germany, twice. Its hyperinflation issues in the 1920s and its totally wrecked post-WW2 economy. That's as far as I read. There are probably others. Oh, yes, China's rise from less than nothing and mass starvation to where it is today, Russia, Japan after WW2, I could go on....
  • edited January 2013
    "The fact is, when you look at our finances as a whole, the Coalition isn't cutting anything.
    State spending is going up… our national debt is going up… and our interest payments are going up."


    No matter whether it's Conservative, Liberal or Labour government, it is the economic story of the 20th Century, continuing on and on.
    As Leroy says, it's the system that's at fault.

    Nothing is going to change, because the influential politicians don't want change.
    Not that they can do too much about it right now, the juggernaut's going downhill too fast to stop.


    Sorry, Disco. Leroy and others are right.
    It's just scaremongering bullsh!t to panic you into buying a subscription to their rag.
  • Writing this without reading other posts so that I am not influenced either way.

    I think Solly has been the solid foundation of our team over the last two seasons, and our midfield, especially Stephens, after his wonder-strike, seem to be learning how to cut it in this league.

    Oh, yes. And we no longer have a manufacturing industry as a result of politicians eagerness to disable the working classes of this country, exchanging our economy for one based on service and financial markets.

    And we're all going to die anyway.
  • another left wing rag
  • edited January 2013
    If I knew then what I know now I would have got out of this country when I was in my twenties. Too old now so will have to bite the bullit. Don't think our short medium or long term future is very rosy tbh.
  • edited January 2013
    The problem is, do Labour offer anything really different? The crash and aftermath has shown that the current capitalist system doesn't work. Communism has shown it doesn't work so we need a new type of capitalism, where the markets have less influence and we judge ourselves on the quality of life of all of our citizens.

    The Global economy is very damaging - how do you compete with countries who exploit their labour -you can't. The Conservatives want to create a cheap workforce, but it is the wrong path - they can never get it cheap enough - better we find a new path. No options should be dismissed.

    One option is to become more protectionist and align ourselves with other countries that play by the same rules. This country is currently 60% self sufficient in food production, but could produce more than it needs. But the ideal would get back to a time where it mattered where something was made. Where you would buy British if you could. Maybe that is something we need to try to get back. If we did, we would make more and the country would recover.

  • Sponsored links:


  • Oggy Red said:

    "The fact is, when you look at our finances as a whole, the Coalition isn't cutting anything.
    State spending is going up… our national debt is going up… and our interest payments are going up."


    No matter whether it's Conservative, Liberal or Labour government, it is the economic story of the 20th Century, continuing on and on.
    As Leroy says, it's the system that's at fault.

    Nothing is going to change, because the influential politicians don't want change.
    Not that they can do too much about it right now, the juggernaut's going downhill too fast to stop.


    Sorry, Disco. Leroy and others are right.
    It's just scaremongering bullsh!t to panic you into buying a subscription to their rag.

    Maybe Oggy but you can say the same about the Goverments who spout bullsh!t so we never know who to believe.
  • It may or not be bullshit but I do know that the bit about Argentina is correct.

    Two examples of how Argentina has suffered and the continuing fallout:

    1. Last time I went there I was hiding my money in cash in various places around the house because my father in law had immediately withdrawn all the money I had transferred over for our stay.

    2. We were watching our wedding DVD yesterday and my wife commented on her friends beautiful ornaments in the house. She said 'they were rich.' I seeked to clarify: 'do you mean 'are' or 'were?'' She said again' were' in the tone meaning 'of course', and I thought 'well, yes, should have known better than to ask.' Everyone just lost everything (except tangible objects) and have never got it back.

    If you do believe in the article just make sure you have no cash in the bank. Buy things that you can re-sell although bear in mind that no-one will probably have any money to buy them back off you anyway. Best thing to do is as Leroy suggests and not worry about it too much. This is what my in-laws in Argentina now seem to do!

  • Governments tell people what they want to hear in order to get elected. They are not then held to account when they break their promises. Why do they lie? because they'd never get elected if they told the truth and promised to enforce tough economic policies that would benefit their nations over the long term. People these days want everything, and they want it now. We are suffering from greed and population growth. There are not enough jobs to go around and there is not enough money to go around, not when the super rich keep it in their own circles.
  • DiscoCAFC said:

    Oggy Red said:

    "The fact is, when you look at our finances as a whole, the Coalition isn't cutting anything.
    State spending is going up… our national debt is going up… and our interest payments are going up."


    No matter whether it's Conservative, Liberal or Labour government, it is the economic story of the 20th Century, continuing on and on.
    As Leroy says, it's the system that's at fault.

    Nothing is going to change, because the influential politicians don't want change.
    Not that they can do too much about it right now, the juggernaut's going downhill too fast to stop.


    Sorry, Disco. Leroy and others are right.
    It's just scaremongering bullsh!t to panic you into buying a subscription to their rag.

    Maybe Oggy but you can say the same about the Goverments who spout bullsh!t so we never know who to believe.
    I did, Disco. All governments, all parties.

    That's what I said.

    They are all in it together.
    Why? Because they work the system to benefit themselves.

    Whatever their party.


  • Governments tell people what they want to hear in order to get elected. They are not then held to account when they break their promises. Why do they lie? because they'd never get elected if they told the truth and promised to enforce tough economic policies that would benefit their nations over the long term. People these days want everything, and they want it now. We are suffering from greed and population growth. There are not enough jobs to go around and there is not enough money to go around, not when the super rich keep it in their own circles.

    That is a big part of the problem - it becomes clear when their is less money floating around - the super rich aren't willing to take any hits. The current system is about them.
  • The Argentina example is an interesting one. The working classes had been pummelled by economic crisis again and again from the 80s onwards (The Falklands War was meant to be a distraction for the masses from their economic woes). In the 90s, the govt there adopted the dollar as the local currency. Then in 2001 when it all went wrong, those in the know were carrying millions of dollars out of the country, which meant that the middle classes suddenly found they had nothing. To be fair to the Argentineans though, they didn't moan about it, they got on and did things, running neighbourhood assemblies to deal with local services, occupying businesses that had closed and restarting them and making a lot of protests.
    The real issue about countries' economies being up the spout is that spending power is shifting to countries in Asia and, to an extent Latin America. Unless it's niche stuff, (Land Rovers, Jaguars, Scotch) we are not going to make things they want cheaper than they are, apart from maybe arms. The other stuff where the UK has a global lead we're shooting ourselves in the foot; universities are reporting fewer overseas students (and it is a big deal for people to get an education in English) because the govt want to keep out students just here to work but are doing it in a way that appeases the Daily Mail. Like the people in Asia looking at spending £100k over 3-4 years on education decide to go to somewhere more welcoming.
    Or publishing, again, UK is a world leader. But what do the govt do? Cut arts and humanities at universities because it doesn't play in the real economy.
  • rananegra said:

    The Argentina example is an interesting one. The working classes had been pummelled by economic crisis again and again from the 80s onwards (The Falklands War was meant to be a distraction for the masses from their economic woes). In the 90s, the govt there adopted the dollar as the local currency. Then in 2001 when it all went wrong, those in the know were carrying millions of dollars out of the country, which meant that the middle classes suddenly found they had nothing. To be fair to the Argentineans though, they didn't moan about it, they got on and did things, running neighbourhood assemblies to deal with local services, occupying businesses that had closed and restarting them and making a lot of protests.
    The real issue about countries' economies being up the spout is that spending power is shifting to countries in Asia and, to an extent Latin America. Unless it's niche stuff, (Land Rovers, Jaguars, Scotch) we are not going to make things they want cheaper than they are, apart from maybe arms. The other stuff where the UK has a global lead we're shooting ourselves in the foot; universities are reporting fewer overseas students (and it is a big deal for people to get an education in English) because the govt want to keep out students just here to work but are doing it in a way that appeases the Daily Mail. Like the people in Asia looking at spending £100k over 3-4 years on education decide to go to somewhere more welcoming.
    Or publishing, again, UK is a world leader. But what do the govt do? Cut arts and humanities at universities because it doesn't play in the real economy.

    Great point about the UK education sector, I was in Malaysia last year talking to a very rich family there who really wanted to send their daughter to the UK to study but were put off by what they felt were funding cutbacks in the UK university system.

    They ended up sending the girl to the University of Melbourne instead - for which they are paying tens of thousands in fees and living costs being pumped into the local economy.

    Education is a massive export activity for the UK and I don't think the opportunity is being properly exploited, although others on here such as John Boy UK could probably give a better perspective as he works in education.
  • Sorry to be the bringer of bad news but here goes..........Buy farmland or a smallholding,self sufficiency in food,solar panels with battery backup , water borehole, poly tunnels, four large chest freezers for storing last years crop,back up generator,wood burning stove,become part of a local network of like minded people,and invest in hard money.I saw this 15 years ago coming and I've been able to help others who listened. The whole system is going down and they are not telling you the truth.The cities will be war zones with little or no police protection.So if you can relocate now to as remote a place you can and prepare do so .Also this is a wide world collapse so where ever you go it will be bad. Im not a doomsday nutter Im a level headed guy who thinks ahead.
  • Sorry to be the bringer of bad news but here goes..........Buy farmland or a smallholding,self sufficiency in food,solar panels with battery backup , water borehole, poly tunnels, four large chest freezers for storing last years crop,back up generator,wood burning stove,become part of a local network of like minded people,and invest in hard money.I saw this 15 years ago coming and I've been able to help others who listened. The whole system is going down and they are not telling you the truth.The cities will be war zones with little or no police protection.So if you can relocate now to as remote a place you can and prepare do so .Also this is a wide world collapse so where ever you go it will be bad. Im not a doomsday nutter Im a level headed guy who thinks ahead.

    Two Sheds :)
  • edited January 2013

    Sorry to be the bringer of bad news but here goes..........Buy farmland or a smallholding,self sufficiency in food,solar panels with battery backup , water borehole, poly tunnels, four large chest freezers for storing last years crop,back up generator,wood burning stove,become part of a local network of like minded people,and invest in hard money.I saw this 15 years ago coming and I've been able to help others who listened. The whole system is going down and they are not telling you the truth.The cities will be war zones with little or no police protection.So if you can relocate now to as remote a place you can and prepare do so .Also this is a wide world collapse so where ever you go it will be bad. Im not a doomsday nutter Im a level headed guy who thinks ahead.

    If everyone does this exodus to farmland I'll stay put in London as it will then be the most remote place in the country.

    Ps are you a salesman for solar panels with battery backup , water boreholes, poly tunnels, large chest freezers for storing last years crop,back up generators and wood burning stoves per chance? ;-)


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