One of the problems NLA, is that the mugs in power don't have the balls to do what is necessary to sort the problem out because the mugs that vote will kick anyone out if they were to take the appropriate action. People want all this sorted out, but they don't want pensions and healthcare cut or taxes to rise. They want the whole thing to be sorted out by cutting waste or taxing some kind of mythical rich who are at "fault" for this. Problem with democracy.
That's the nub of the matter. Whatever the party, they tend to offer what might seem to be attractive to their core voters. Labour: tax the rich, more benefits for the poor, big Govt; Tories: less benefits, less tax, small Govt. Lib Dems: The ludicrous tax on "mansions" which would bring in little more than nothing, and, well, nothing of merit. UKIP: let's all become hermits (and destroy our economy in the process). Thus the over-arching well-being of the economy gets stuffed.
Here's my cure (I can dream or maybe I've drunk too much champagne tonight): We need more energy, Cyprus has plenty of gas. They need, what £10bn? BP's turnover is nigh on £400bn, and even after they paid US fines for the Gulf oil spill, profits were still £13bn last year. They have £19bn of cash in the bank. So, and it's been done before, (remember the Hudson Bay Co and the East India Co?) Let's suggest to BP that they buy Cyprus - lock stock and barrel. BP take control of all the Russian owned assets in Cyprus (in revenge for BP getting stuffed by the Russian oil companies) and make it available to us. Cyprus starts using proper pounds rather than the euro. We all get free villas and move somewhere warm!
Why do you believe UKIP will destroy the economy when they have representatives who had experienced more life than the LibLabCon put together?
Oh, and before you jump in and believe leaving the EU will be bad for us. For starters we pay £50m a day to the EU.
That's one way of looking at it. An alternative is that NET (we do get money back from the EU) we pay about £8mn a day. Another way of looking at it is around 50 euros per person a year. Not much is it? And on a per head basis puts us at about 7th in the list of contributor countries. It's interesting I think that the largest contributor is Luxembourg at around 200 euros per head. So, if, for the sake of a few quid, you feel you want to experiment with whether we lose out on future investment on a large scale in the UK by foreign manufacturers who want to have a base in the EU, vote for a party that wants to withdraw England, Wales & Northern Ireland from the EU. I suspect the Scots will stay in if they get independence. Talking of Northern Ireland, if we really wanted to rid ourselves of a heavy drain on resources for no material gain plus a lot of grief on the side, I'd cut Ulster adrift. Interestingly, Northern Ireland costs English tax payers about £8bn a year. That's nearly 3 times as much as the EU and all we get is aggravation. This from somewhere that has the same population as Essex or a handful of London boroughs. As for UKIP's representatives having great experience of life, that, unfortunately, is not really of much assistance. The vast majority of parliament's work is discussing, drafting and redrafting legislation. That's why a significant percentage of MPs are lawyers and financiers by trade. It's what they will have to do when they get there. On the other hand there's not much demand for making a bacon sandwich.
We can do a lot with £50M a day.
Leaving the EU will not ensure we lose out on future investment. If this were true these foriegn factories would not be here in the first place since Britain was always the country most likely to leave and least likely to join the Euro. Nissan, Honda et al put the factories here because of; a skilled workforce, prescence of suppliers and ease transport. All of which would remain when we left and you already know how popular these companies are in the UK, so why on earth would a company miss an oppotunity to gain lots of trade.
We also run a fairly permanent Trade Deficit with the EU of around £7 Billion for Goods, so we buy more from the EU than they buy from us. If (and when) we leave the EU, the EU will still want to sell us their goods to us, so the EU will not stop trading with us as they would lose out more than us.
How is UKIP's main representives, who has a great experience of life does not contribute when the front benchers of the 3 main parties have come from a top college to study politics to become MP's? David Cameron, Ed Milliband and Nick Clegg will not get a job in the outside world so being elected is important to them, hence the continues lies that goes from their backteeth. They never run a business or did anything good in their lives how do you expect them to run the most important public finances in this Country? Before Nigel Farage got into politics, he worked for two companies in London and then ran his own business.
I was having a brief chat with my 9 year old son earlier tonight and the discussion got around to the age of majority & voting. This then went onto the basic principles of politics (Labour the workers friend, Torry's the businessman's friend) and then onto tax etc etc.
Then I told him that some people pay half of what they earn to The Government to pay for doctors & nurses, teachers etc he thought this was a bit much .......especially when I then told him that The Government then pay YOU if you didn't work & will probably give you a house as well !!!
when explained like that you realise how daft the current system has got & why we are in so much s**t.
love the way people still blame thatcher for everyting almost 25 years after she left office. Not that lefties bear grudges for long.
Hope they treat gordon brown with the same level of respect, he was a class act that we are going to pay for forever.
That's what "legacy" is all about, there's no time limit on screwing up the future. It resonates throughout the ages. Not that righties are complete buffoons... ( little smiley thing raising its eyebrows and shaking its head).
I blame Neville Chamberlain for getting us into a war we couldn't afford and almost bankrupted the Country, taking us years to get back on the straight and narrow.
Why didn't we just appease that nice Mr Hitler, the German Chancellor?
In all honesty I'm petrified with the state of our economy, my one aim now is to ensure my family remains with a roof over it's head by whatever means.
I seem to recall one person on here having issues with moving €40,000 around because of some bank charges... Before Thatcher came in you couldn't move more than £500 around in one go. So freedom to move money but that means that UK, in fact EVERY country has to behave responsibly else capital just flys away.
What the vast majority of people will not know is that if they had won the 1983 election, the Labour Party were all set to reintroduce exchange controls (That was not in their manifesto though). In preparation, all the regulations and transfer application documents had been printed prior to election. Fortunately, the British public saw Foot for what he was - a bumbling left wing dreamer - he lost and the documents got shredded. So, we could indeed have been back to the era of having to get the back page of our passports stamped to allow us to export £50 to go on holiday. Frightening isn't it?
Thatchter gets a lot of blame. But that's partly because she was around so long, so a lot of stuff happened on her watch. If anyone wants to reflect on what might have happened without her, they need only look at the utterly barking mad manifesto put out by Michael Foot's Labour Party for the 1983 election. I promise you that you will be staggered by what was proposed and will be in no doubt about where our country would now be if Foot had been Prime Minister instead of Thatcher.
love the way people still blame thatcher for everyting almost 25 years after she left office. Not that lefties bear grudges for long.
Hope they treat gordon brown with the same level of respect, he was a class act that we are going to pay for forever.
Agreed!
I don't blame her for everything. Just most things....
Whether she was right or not, that's a different argument, but I can't see how anyone can disagree that Thacherite policies still have a massive impact on: privatisation, housing, energy, financial services, transport and the public sector for starters.
Sold all of out utilitiers to foreign banks. Very patriotic.
Made our country an aircraft carrier for the yanks, Very patriotic
Killed hundreds of soldiers to win an election - very patriotic.
"smashed" the miners to allow cheap coal to be bought from Colombia via slave labour while our indigenous people fucking starved - very patriotic.
Destroyed swathes of our country and communities for her free market (steel Pirnters coal miners dockers)
created a country of tosspots who actually think they are well off because they had some shares and a mortgage not realising it made things better for the bosses and millionaires - you have more bills you suffer more shit from above. Couple this with unions dying and bobs your uncle.
sold off thousands of council houses to give the tax money to her mates and didnt replace em -
basically created the housing bubble her silly mates including Balir are perpetuating - it WILL go worng.
Next time anyone moans about "talking to INdia " for hours in a call centre think of Maggie.
I honestly also blame her for Tony Blair - he aint Labout and most of his cronies aint or werent. Fucking Tory B Team.
Created the ME ME ME bolloocks that we live in which as led to celeb based money driven dreamy faux aspirational shit most bods live in these days.
Give me Tony Benn , Michael Foot or Dennis SKinner any day.
One thing you can blame Thatcher for is the obsession with the "home owning democracy" that sowed the seeds for the housing bubble that we're all still paying for. The removal of the secured tenancies meant that it became more important to try to buy your own home if you were planning on starting a family, as the risk of having to move every year on your landlord's whim isn't one you want to take once your kid is settled in school. The big sell off of housing stock under "right to buy" while preventing the proceeds being used to build more housing stock, means there isn't enough social housing for those that need it, and we're having to pay out huge sums in Housing Benefit to private landlords instead.
Of course Blair and Brown didn't help, by allowing the expansion of Buy To Let mortgages, so first time buyers are having to compete with amateur property speculators. Combined with the lack of sufficient housebuilding over decades, we've reached a situation now where huge chunks of people's incomes are being paid out in housing costs, either rent or mortgage. What we need is a big programme of building social housing (both rent and shared ownership), which would provide a huge boost to the construction industry and get the housing benefit bill down. Instead what we're getting is the Government offering to underwrite the riskier end of the mortgage market, and stupid schemes penalising council tenants for "underoccupying" when appropriate sized properties don't exist in their area.
Personally I'd love to see a radical restructuring of the housing market, but with Middle England's obsession with house prices, it's never going to happen.
all these scoungers who get benefits when they are out of work, let them starve I say, or perhaps a life of crime, at least thats enterprising, right kids? Anyone would think we were in a recession with hundreds of thousands of jobs disappearing, tsk. Now where is my Daily Mail
Just on a technical note, Thatcher was a apparently a monetarist, although some whould refute that. So how are the current lot Thatcherite-Monetartist, surely QE is contrary to that, which is increasing the money supply? Or is monetarism only applied when inflation is soaring?
Ah, okay DA1 - you've persuaded me. That's because you put forward a well-thought out argument full of facts while explaining what the real and affordable alternatives were. Oh no, hang on, you didn't. You spouted a lot of inaccurate foaming at the mouth ranting. Let's take one small example from your list of ridiculous claims: printers. First, you are of course only referring to the printers of London newspapers not the print industry as a whole. This small band of individuals worked in a closed-shop (how's that for freedom of choice?), were paid large wages for doing little work in an industry rife with spanish practices and using outmoded processes (hot metal and linotype) long since abandoned by the rest of the industry . So, simply, it was the coming age of the computer and their own stupidity that caused their downfall, not the Conservative Government. SOGAT and DA1 - proof that dinosaurs didn't die out 65mn years ago.
Ah, okay DA1 - you've persuaded me. That's because you put forward a well-thought out argument full of facts while explaining what the real and affordable alternatives were. Oh no, hang on, you didn't. You spouted a lot of inaccurate foaming at the mouth ranting. Let's take one small example from your list of ridiculous claims: printers. First, you are of course only referring to the printers of London newspapers not the print industry as a whole. This small band of individuals worked in a closed-shop (how's that for freedom of choice?), were paid large wages for doing little work in an industry rife with spanish practices and using outmoded processes (hot metal and linotype) long since abandoned by the rest of the industry . So, simply, it was the coming age of the computer and their own stupidity that caused their downfall, not the Conservative Government. SOGAT and DA1 - proof that dinosaurs didn't die out 65mn years ago.
God forbid that the working man has the best hand and gets good money eh? Much better to put the money into the hands of the owners and share holders eh?
It wasnt the modernisation (which i agree was inevitable) but the way they were treated by her and her aussie mouthpiece convincing you all there is an enemy within. Divide and rule.
Can you list what parts are inaccurate rants please - i will genuinely roll ovber if you highlight one.
As for alternatives there was one in the 80s now there is bland bullshit across the board.
PS You forgot that the Tories LOVE imigration to the max re the cheap labour they can USE.
Haa
Of course they do. It keeps wages low for them. Unemployment up and inflation down.
I loved shiny face Dave's anouncement yesterday about immigrants and benefits . Anoyone would think it was the same day a commons committee was issuig a bad report on the Borders Agency
Comments
Leaving the EU will not ensure we lose out on future investment. If this were true these foriegn factories would not be here in the first place since Britain was always the country most likely to leave and least likely to join the Euro. Nissan, Honda et al put the factories here because of; a skilled workforce, prescence of suppliers and ease transport. All of which would remain when we left and you already know how popular these companies are in the UK, so why on earth would a company miss an oppotunity to gain lots of trade.
We also run a fairly permanent Trade Deficit with the EU of around £7 Billion for Goods, so we buy more from the EU than they buy from us. If (and when) we leave the EU, the EU will still want to sell us their goods to us, so the EU will not stop trading with us as they would lose out more than us.
How is UKIP's main representives, who has a great experience of life does not contribute when the front benchers of the 3 main parties have come from a top college to study politics to become MP's? David Cameron, Ed Milliband and Nick Clegg will not get a job in the outside world so being elected is important to them, hence the continues lies that goes from their backteeth. They never run a business or did anything good in their lives how do you expect them to run the most important public finances in this Country? Before Nigel Farage got into politics, he worked for two companies in London and then ran his own business.
Hope they treat gordon brown with the same level of respect, he was a class act that we are going to pay for forever.
Then I told him that some people pay half of what they earn to The Government to pay for doctors & nurses, teachers etc he thought this was a bit much .......especially when I then told him that The Government then pay YOU if you didn't work & will probably give you a house as well !!!
when explained like that you realise how daft the current system has got & why we are in so much s**t.
Why didn't we just appease that nice Mr Hitler, the German Chancellor?
What the vast majority of people will not know is that if they had won the 1983 election, the Labour Party were all set to reintroduce exchange controls (That was not in their manifesto though). In preparation, all the regulations and transfer application documents had been printed prior to election. Fortunately, the British public saw Foot for what he was - a bumbling left wing dreamer - he lost and the documents got shredded. So, we could indeed have been back to the era of having to get the back page of our passports stamped to allow us to export £50 to go on holiday. Frightening isn't it?
Thatchter gets a lot of blame. But that's partly because she was around so long, so a lot of stuff happened on her watch.
If anyone wants to reflect on what might have happened without her, they need only look at the utterly barking mad manifesto put out by Michael Foot's Labour Party for the 1983 election. I promise you that you will be staggered by what was proposed and will be in no doubt about where our country would now be if Foot had been Prime Minister instead of Thatcher.
Whether she was right or not, that's a different argument, but I can't see how anyone can disagree that Thacherite policies still have a massive impact on: privatisation, housing, energy, financial services, transport and the public sector for starters.
Sold all of out utilitiers to foreign banks. Very patriotic.
Made our country an aircraft carrier for the yanks, Very patriotic
Killed hundreds of soldiers to win an election - very patriotic.
"smashed" the miners to allow cheap coal to be bought from Colombia via slave
labour while our indigenous people fucking starved - very patriotic.
Destroyed swathes of our country and communities for her free market (steel Pirnters coal miners dockers)
created a country of tosspots who actually think they are well off because they had some shares and a mortgage not realising it made things better for the bosses and millionaires - you have more bills you suffer more shit from above. Couple this with unions dying and bobs your uncle.
sold off thousands of council houses to give the tax money to her mates and didnt replace em -
basically created the housing bubble her silly mates including Balir are perpetuating - it WILL go worng.
Next time anyone moans about "talking to INdia " for hours in a call centre think of Maggie.
I honestly also blame her for Tony Blair - he aint Labout and most of his cronies aint or werent. Fucking Tory B Team.
Created the ME ME ME bolloocks that we live in which as led to celeb based money driven dreamy faux aspirational shit most bods live in these days.
Give me Tony Benn , Michael Foot or Dennis SKinner any day.
Die soon you horrid old bag.
Of course Blair and Brown didn't help, by allowing the expansion of Buy To Let mortgages, so first time buyers are having to compete with amateur property speculators. Combined with the lack of sufficient housebuilding over decades, we've reached a situation now where huge chunks of people's incomes are being paid out in housing costs, either rent or mortgage. What we need is a big programme of building social housing (both rent and shared ownership), which would provide a huge boost to the construction industry and get the housing benefit bill down. Instead what we're getting is the Government offering to underwrite the riskier end of the mortgage market, and stupid schemes penalising council tenants for "underoccupying" when appropriate sized properties don't exist in their area.
Personally I'd love to see a radical restructuring of the housing market, but with Middle England's obsession with house prices, it's never going to happen.
Just on a technical note, Thatcher was a apparently a monetarist, although some whould refute that. So how are the current lot Thatcherite-Monetartist, surely QE is contrary to that, which is increasing the money supply? Or is monetarism only applied when inflation is soaring?
Tut tut fella !
Big Dunc and Selwyn are watching !!!!!
PS
You forgot that the Tories LOVE imigration to the max re the cheap labour they can USE.
Oh no, hang on, you didn't. You spouted a lot of inaccurate foaming at the mouth ranting. Let's take one small example from your list of ridiculous claims: printers. First, you are of course only referring to the printers of London newspapers not the print industry as a whole. This small band of individuals worked in a closed-shop (how's that for freedom of choice?), were paid large wages for doing little work in an industry rife with spanish practices and using outmoded processes (hot metal and linotype) long since abandoned by the rest of the industry . So, simply, it was the coming age of the computer and their own stupidity that caused their downfall, not the Conservative Government. SOGAT and DA1 - proof that dinosaurs didn't die out 65mn years ago.
God forbid that the working man has the best hand and gets good money eh? Much better to put the money into the hands of the owners and share holders eh?
It wasnt the modernisation (which i agree was inevitable) but the way they were treated by her and her aussie mouthpiece convincing you all there is an enemy within. Divide and rule.
Can you list what parts are inaccurate rants please - i will genuinely roll ovber if you highlight one.
As for alternatives there was one in the 80s now there is bland bullshit across the board.
Of course they do. It keeps wages low for them. Unemployment up and inflation down.
I loved shiny face Dave's anouncement yesterday about immigrants and benefits . Anoyone would think it was the same day a commons committee was issuig a bad report on the Borders Agency
MarxistC++ts that should be turned into cat litter.
I must admit i aint really sure what should have been done but i know what shouldnt have been done and thats most of the above mate.